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The age gap theory assumes ( it’s intuitively correct, and, I believe, statistically proven) that more children are born each year into frum homes than in the previous year. There will therefore be approximately 3% more 20 year olds (both male and female) than 21 year olds; 6% more 20 year olds than 22 year olds, and 9% more 20 year olds than 23 year olds.
The problem worsens (percentage-wise) as these singles age. Say for example, in a given year, there are 1100 23 year old boys and 1000 20 year old girls. After 3 years, let’s assume that 900 boys got married. That means that 900 girls got married as well. There are now twice as many girls as boys in this age group.
Baal Boose,
1) Sure there was a point, that it’s not a numbers issue, rather it’s the fault of the way the litvish do shidduchim.
2) This is where you missed the point. The problem is that the boys are about three or four years older than the girls they marry, and since our generations are ??”? growing, there are more girls of marriageable age than boys (19-21 is generally marriageable for girls, not boys). My next post will explain in more detail.
3) I was stronger than I usually am because your tone was one of anger at the yeshivas, yeshiva bochurim, and roshei yeshiva.
4) What facts? All (or most) anecdotal observations (some of which I happen to agree with).
6) Yes it’s a problem, and if the numbers were reversed, the problem would likely be too many demands from the girls’ side.
7) Making more than the shver or father? Highly doubtful, certainly conjecture (at best, anecdotal).
8) I was addressing Oomis.
C) Do you advocate instead, that the shver should promise support and then renege? In many cases, the shver willingly tightens his belt to support his son-in-law. I also know of cases in which the son-in-law gave up the support when he realized that his shver was struggling. In (after?) point D), you seem to concede that the norm is not the ungrateful son-in-law squeezing his poor helpless shver, so we may agree on this more than disagree.
D) Your idea of equal support is a fine idea, but how could you expect to mandate it? If the numbers were equal, it would probably pretty much happen by itself.
.???? ?
Has anyone ever theorized that Joseph might be a moderator?
Yes- there might have been a whloe thread about it once.
Genig shein !
What possible reason could there be to lie to a seven year old for tznius?
I don’t think the OP’s question was specifically about lying to a 7 year old, I think it was a 7 year old who asked a general question.
And the gemara itself discusses lying for tznius – relating to matters between husband and wife.
is that acceptable in the frum community…?
That’s a broad spectrum. The answer is that it’s acceptable to some and an oddity to others.
poor mods! they have to …
Forced labor?
I agree with Charlie, though.
Is anyone else besides me sick of this Joseph shtick yet?
I’m almost there.
There are ads for organizations which help abused spouses and children published in our most widely read newspapers. There are public forums and speeches about it. Mishpacha just finished a serial about it. What more do you think should be done?
If you marry someone with a decent income, it should be doable.
I wouldn’t.
I did it.
Besides R’ Akiva, how many can you name?
It’s clear from the gemara in Kiddushin and Menachos that it was standard procedure (machlokes Rashi and Tosafos whether for those from E.Y. or those from Bavel).
Rabi Akiva stands out for several reasons, including that he was an am ha’aretz when he left, for the amount of time he was away, and for the specific mesiras nefesh that his wife Rochel had (she became estranged from her family).
Da’as Yachid – every single zivug is absolutely truly a nes.
Yes, but not as much of a nes niglah as having 1,000 boys marry 1,100 girls with no polygamy.
And the fact that we must rely on one nes does not allow us to rely on another.
For those who agree that there’s a number issue which must be addressed, but don’t want to “give up hope” because Hashem can do anything, I agree.
However, there are those who are in denial that there’s a problem because of what is (to the best of my knowledge – I’d love to be shown that I’m wrong) a misunderstanding of the gemara in Sotah that every person will get married. It’s that opinion which I disagree with.
I would give Joseph credit for creating such a character, so different than his persona.
Although it is clear that Zees is a “put on” character (by her(?) own admission also).
shlishi,
So long as it is on different days (as opposed to the same day) it’s only an inyan rather than mandatory?
It’s okay b’shaa’s had’chak.
charliehall,
Or, on Friday afternoon, at the same shul! There are two shuls in my neighborhood where there is a maariv minyan before a minchah minyan.
(Somehow I don’t think this works ;).)
In theory, if the people who conducted themselves like R Yehuda, and the people who conducted themselves like the Rabbonn, would be davenig at separate minyanim, there shouldn’t be a problem.
In reality, I think most people conduct themselves according to the Rabbonon (anyone who davens mincha during the week after plag).
(to the most wonderful boy, of course!)
We would not have expected otherwise! Mazel Tov!
perhaps some people with these ideas should have participated in todays parade
I’m against it, but if you read the posts, even those who “have these ideas”, just want to prove that such marriages are a legal sham.
They plan to send the kid to public school so that they can afford to get by without the two of them having to have workaholic careers and not be able to parent their child.
By lo aleinu sending the child to public school, they’re not properly parenting her.
Oomis, according to an online encyclopedia, always here is correct. It seems that Marvin Gaye was one of several who did a cover on it (which I guess is why on the first site that I found, songmeanings.net, it was implied that he wrote it).
Oops! So now you know that I don’t really know the song (I guess Google failed me this time).
I still think he’s not Marvin Gaye.
I simply answered it accordingly.
The eye-roll was a bit much. ?
If so, e. (which says the yarmulka, not a yarmulka).
When a specific community Minhag is mis-represented as being Biblical I will protest.
For example?
The Wolf (who did not write the above lyrics)
So now we know you’re not Marvin Gaye.
The 13 ikarim have not been universally accepted, but that is for another thread. What you describe is hashkafah kefira. What is halachic kefira?
That’s why I wrote “according to the Ramba”m”.
I believe the OP meant something that would be considered, according to halacha, kefira.
It depends why you switched; as Charlie said, there’s no intrinsic difference. As such, you are better equipped to answer the question than any of us are.
who is YW Editor
Look up Yeshiva World News in an online encyclopedia.
Wolf,
I hope you use your real name.
As for me, it depends to whom I am speaking; relatives, I use her name, friends, I say my shver’s daughter. (JK)
So if someone spreads kefira, without having intended to, it’s okay??
I didn’t say kavana (intention), I said machshava (thought).
Define “halachic kefira”
Kefirah is a thought/belief which is inconsistent with a basic tenet of Yiddishkeit, for example, the 13 ikarim according to the Ramba”m, as enumerated in his pirush on Perek Chelek.
This is a post, hence it’s kefirah.
Yep, I see the logic behind that. : rolleyes :
An overreaction, I think, considering that the OP simply mistakenly used the word “does” in place of “can”.
Why do you assume there was no bas kol for a child that died r’l??
I’m not referring to a case where someone took his own life (which is a shaila in hashkafa altogether if he ca? reduce his allotted time that way; IIRC the Chovos Halvavos says not), but a case where someone was allotted only a few years. It makes no sense that he would have a shidduch set aside if he was not destined to grow old enough to marry.
??? ???’, ??? ??? ??? ?? ?????? ???
I believe that the ribbono she’ll olam created a shidduch for everyone.
I have full faith in the words of Chaza”l, even when I don’t understand them. I just don’t think Chaza”l ever said such a thing.
I am just arguing that those who do not adopt chassidic minhugim have a valid basis.
That’s not what was implied in your post,”Why have some many Chassidic minhagim spread so rapidly recently when they have no unbroken chain of Mesorah back to Moshe?”.
It’s the machashava behind it.
apushatayid,
Bas ploni, liploni. Nobody was passed over. Everyone born, has a shidduch.
Do you know the source in the gemara for “Bas ploni, liploni”? Look at Tosafos there.
Besides, where does it say that bas kol was for everyone, maybe it was just for those who have a “bas ploni” designated, but some don’t.
If, lo aleinu, a young child is niftar, was there a bas kol for that child?
Why have some many Chassidic minhagim spread so rapidly recently when they have no unbroken chain of Mesorah back to Moshe?
You would have to be more specific so that any single minhag could be defended (not everything needs a mesorah bach to Har Sinai).
minyan gal,
I think we all know of people who never marry; that was my point.
When the gemara says that a bas kol (heavenly voice) announces a baby’s future wife, it does not offer a guarantee that everyone will, in fact, get married.
Baal Boose,
You totally miss the point. There are simply more marriagable girls than boys, but you insist on ranting against the “litvish” system, blaming it, and ignoring the facts.
True, based on the lopsided numbers, the boys (or their parents) can be more choosy, but that’s an effect of the numbers issue, not the other way around.
what will be with them?
Do I know? Am I (or did I ever claim to be) a navi?
Al pi teva, some will get married, and some won’t.
Does anybody have a better answer than that?
And if someone answers that every single girl (take that with both meanings) will get married, I ask: was there ever any person who ever did not get married in their lifetime?
What a chutzpah!
I guess she’s right.
(Just kidding – she’s probably just nervous about what you’ll think when she goes back to work after six months.)
To correct all misinterpretations:
It was more fun when everyone was confused.
There are more of those than new female b”t?
No, but if it happened, it wouldn’t be a nes (or at least not as big a nes as a bunch of single “FFBs” suddenly appearing out of nowhere).
Maskim (except maybe many new male baalei teshuvah).
He was saying that it usually takes a maximum of 12 steps for a thread to degenerate into L”H.
Ask The Goq; he’s a big fan of the Cubbies.
Kind of like the 12 step program, but they have 2 more at the end.
This is what PAA was talkng about.
The discussion you are quoting relates to the situation of the current generation of girls
To me, the phrase “Hashem is mizaveg zivugim. Period. End of discussion.” is denying the imperative to do hidhtadlus to alleviate the problem. This is what I was addressing.
Who is Rabbi Niman?
Long-time maggid shiur in CC Queens.
It doesn’t matter here, as I’m not bringing my family to this.
Your family would suffer immeasurably if c”v something happened to you.
I will not kill anyone, even if halacha allows me to.
Wouldn’t you do it to protect your family (if the situation arose)?
Do you or do you not agree that Hashem can do the impossible?
Hashem is mizaveg zivugim. Period. End of discussion.
Ein somchin al hanes.