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As I mentioned, I feel VERY wrong about taking food and drink from a shul where I’m not a member at a kiddush or similar function*.
I understand your feeling. In a case where there’s clearly enough food, most ba’lei simcha are more than happy to have anyone who happens to be in the shul partake in the simcha, or even just to enjoy the food.
Do you disagree with me? That’s fine — just please keep the discussion civil.
I thought I did; my apologies if it came across otherwise.
Just Google “netiquette”.
It doesn’t seem to say anything (although I just skimmed it) about responding. Points of interest are not correcting others’ spelling errors, not using ALL CAPS, not multiposting, and staying on topic (I think I’m guilty of some of these).
Even if it’s not on WP, it’s still common decency to say “thanks” when given solicited advice, and possibly when complimented (although there’s the mitigating “blush factor”).
If the reports that he tried to abduct another child are true, then obviously, something should have been done.
Otherwise, although I never met him, if he just seemed odd, but never tried to harm anyone (that anyone was aware of), I really don’t know what could have been done.
We all know people who seem very odd (at least I do), and we try to keep our children away from them, but what else can we do?
Keep in mind that the vast majority of “odd” people are probably completely harmless.
They’re phony. He might very well think they’re real, though.
They’re really not even worth responding to, although in a few moments of weakness, I did respond to a couple yesterday (I also thought he got a little too personal yesterday, and I didn’t want to just laugh it off at someone else’s expense).
I guess one of the true problems is that people ARE waiting to get something OUT of the marriage when they are really supposed to be PUTTING into the marriage!!!!
That’s probably the biggest issue.
All suggestions that the unfortunately high divorce rate is due to issues unique in the frum world (parental support for kollel, not meeting enough times, pressure to marry by a certain age, etc.) would have to demonstrate that the divorce rate is higher in the circles which practice these ideas than in the circles which don’t, for these theories to hold any water. I don’t believe, though, that the divorce rate for kollel couples, for example, is any higher than for non-kollel couples.
He himself admitted above that it’s stealing.
No, he didn’t.
Even had he thought he was stealing, I have a right to disagree with him.
I had an experience in trying to help someone be mekareiv someone else, and it had disastrous results for me.
I actually think you made a kiddush Hashem, and as for the chest cold, that’s His cheshbon, not yours.
Joseph,
You haven’t responded to the gemara in Kiddushin which gives possibilities of up to 24 years old.
Joseph,
Please dig up the explicit comments from AZ encouraging the girls to wait; the ones you dug up don’t say what you want it too. While you’re at it, I’m still waiting for your R’ Miller’s pro polygamy stance.
Lomed Mkol Adam,
As far as I’m concerned, you’re preaching to the choir, but if you want iron clad proof, you’ll have to show that the birth rate of chareidim in the U.S. is as high as (or near) in E.Y. (it would then logically follow that the growth rate is about the same).
I was so upset by Mosherose’s over-the-top comment that I lost my head.
I have to disagree with you on this one. Mosherose’s comments are usually way too ridiculous to even get upset about.
BTW, Droid, how long ’til you get a subtitle?
ACTUALLY, WE’LL DO THAT NOW. DROID IS JOSEPH ONCE AGAIN. SIGNS UP 1 WEEK AGO, AND COMMENTED ALMOST 250 TIMES AS STARTED THREADS ABOUT KILLING, DIVORCE, AND THE REST OF THE INSANE TOPICS HE FANTISZES ABOUT
The gemara in Kiddushin 30a says otherwise.
Come to think of it, a Yid shouldn’t have either meat or milk in his home. He might end up buying the other type and then cook them together.
No joke. If he has treif recipes in his home, I have to wonder if his wife ever made any of them. I can’t speak a out you but in general a yid should not have treif recipes like pork and basar bchalav in his home.
For that matter, a Yid shouldn’t have both meat and milk in his home, lest he come to cook them together.
I spoke with the rav and he said that if this person is stealing from the shul then he is not welcome to come back to the shul for the shiurim the dinners or even davening.
Well, then, it’s a good thing he’s not stealing from the shul, so he’s welcome to come.
We also snuck some keilim and toiveled them.
Not pashut at all.
Blintz182,
The distinction you just made is between methods of rebuke. I agree that the fist is both nicer, and generally more effective.
But if wasn’t meant to better the next person (which is a mitzvah of hocheach tochiach), then it would be kept to oneself.
http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/profile/username-of-member*
*Substitute the actual username. It won’t work if the active screen name has been changed.
I noticed your point, but unless you can bring authoritative proof that the numbers have changed, using any numbers other than those in the Avi Chai study is pure speculation.
As I pointed out, the numbers are growing, so it would be pure speculation to say that they stopped growing.
“In an article on the subject, Yonason Rosenblum assumes 4% as well”
With all due respect to an excellent journalist, he is making an “assumption” as you pointed out. I see no source for this assumption.
As a respected journalist, he is privy to studies which we are not.
“On point 3, you would sacrifice the many girls who don’t have commitment issues etc. for those who do”
I’m not sacrificing anybody, I pointing out that the age gap is not the hurdle to the vast majority of older singles.
Even had you been correct, you’d be sacrificing the rest.
“On points 4 and 5, we seem to agree that it’s a bigger issue than either of us can decide (I’m not sure why you concede this on point 4 but not on point 5)”
Anything that will lead to net LESS people married doesn’t need Daas Torah to reject it, common sense is sufficient.
So you think that your common sense is better than 70 R”Y?
No. We already determined that these 70 R”Ys said nothing of the sort. They only encouraged boys to “consider” close in age matches. No chiddush there, any Rav etc in his right mind long before NASI would advise a boy not to reject a potential Shidduch just because she is “only” one year younger.
They didn’t say it’s okay to go out with similar age; nobody ever thought it wasn’t, so they didn’t need to. They encourage closer aged shidduchim.
If girls follow NASI’s directive to wait a year or two before dating, she will only have 2 or 3 years left.
To the best of my knowledge, you’ve totally misconstrued NASI’s directive. I never saw anyone encourage the girls to wait.
Daas, I think the apple pie might have been a little liquidy.
It could be a little liquid and not be a problem – it depends how liquid – and it probably is not a problem to eat it once it was done already, anyhow (but I have to look this one up to be sure).
Either way, it was probably a good idea not to eat it regardless, so they shouldn’t take it as your “hechsher” on what was done.
I find the distinction between trying to repair others, and voicing one’s opinion that others are wrong, to be fuzzy at best.
To answer your question, both, because when I express an opinion that what someone else does is wrong, I am, in effect, rebuking them, whether I like it or not.
I agree with 80 (as usual), especially when asking for advice, where a thank you is called for.
I have no idea how to look at someones profile or edit one.
I am sure you are aware we are not talking about murder on our discussion of computers, bicycles and other things that were not here 400 years ago.
I’ll help you on the profile editing, if you want.
No, we’re not discussing murder, I was using an example. There are things besides murder which our Creator has proscribed, and the advent of technology is not a retraction on His part.
I want to speak about it with the rabbi but I dont know how to do so without him figuring out who it is or me plainly telling him.</em.
As long as the rabbi can be discreet about it, why not tell him? It’s l’toeles.
I was at least looking forward to the apple pie I brought her, but she ended up putting it on the hot plate so I didnt have it either.
I don’t think the apple pie would be a problem to eat, because it was fully edible anyhow (putting it on a non-valid blech would be a problem, but not eating it after it was done).
Almost four times as many Yeshivish/Modern Yeshivish girls as guys 20-30.
To be fair, it’s still not proof; the girls might just be more likely to join (although I think the reason for that is at least partially because they start at a numeric disadvantage).
Regardless of your opinion, AZ should be the one answering this and not you.
He obviously would like to avoid the topic. I’m glad to see that you’ve come around now, though. ?
Perhaps, if we all focus on repairing ourselves, not others, we can arrive at a time when we can completely trust each other again.
If you don’t believe that we should also focus on repairing others, why are you posting this in a public forum?
bor,
I don’t know too much about the Amish, but Jews do not have anything against technology, it’s the dangers of how it might be used which is a concern.
I’m sure there are certain bits of technology which you would agree not to use, the argument is how far to take it. G-d didn’t give us the right to use automatic weapons in a shopping mall, although we have the option. The existence of technology is by no means evidence that G-d intended for us to use it.
One could argue that He wants it to be used, but by whom and in what manner is up to our good judgement.
BTW, your profile says where you’re from.
if you don’t see why we need to believe he can do everything, talk to your Rav.
Of course He can do anything, but we need to deal with the reality b’derech hateva (as GAW pointed out).
Tznius is like the Commerce Clause.
True, but this one’s obvious.
If you speak to the Rav of the shul and he says I should be banned from the shul so that I don’t “steal” their services and the like
I wouldn’t worry too much about that happening.
I agree with mamashtakeh and charliehall. Kapusta’s idea, IMHO, can only work for a limited time. Another name is right, but before it gets to that, determine if you really need to avoid eating there.
Your idea, Sender Av, of not eating anywhere so as not to insult them, is only good if it’s practical. It would be a tremendous sacrifice on your part, and, not knowing the individual circumstances of your life, I don’t know if you could pull it off.
Whatever you do, hatzlocha!
Brooklyn and Queens are very different.
Ofcourse,
They would see that camps are not a goldmine.
apushatayid,
If I’m not mistaken (and I might be, depending on the camp) those junior staff members who do pay, are paying a fraction of the regular fees.
The way I see it, supervision of the junior staff is as much the responsibility of the senior staff as supervision of the the campers, and that’s ultimately what the parents are paying for.
Dr. Pepper,
I don’t see his posts as trying to imply his identity either way, I see it as intentional vagueness.
There’s no place for an email address in the profile. I think they do this to address possible tznius concerns.
bor – You espouse ideas such as jews should not have computers
I repeat your quote (with emphasis) to point out that you seemed not to be addressing people in your community, but rather someone or ones on this forum.
Do these people claim that it’s assur to have a computer, or to have an internet connection?
adams,
Even if you’re right in theory, no specific girl knows for certain that if she doesn’t marry a particular boy (who’s less frum), she will never marry. So most will not sacrifice something which is so important.
It is more likely to happen, though, and sometimes does, as she reaches the end of her childbearing years.
Dr. Pepper and hello99,
Why do you insist on outing AZ? Even if he’s who you say he is, he has every right to maintain his anonymity on this particular forum.
Es chatoai ani mazkir hayom – on an earlier thread, I hinted as to who I though he was. I now regret it, and certainly, I think this has gone too far. FTR, AZ does not know who I am, although depending on his identity, we might be acquainted.
hello99,
We’ll have to disagree about 1 & 2, although AZ says there are other studies, and as I pointed out and you ignored, the Avichai study showed 2% decades ago, with growth in the growth rate.
In an article on the subject, Yonason Rosenblum assumes 4% as well. It’s on the cross-currents site, here’s a link if it’s allowed through.
http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2009/11/05/confronting-the-shidduch-crisis/
On point 3, you would sacrifice the many girls who don’t have commitment issues etc. for those who do. I’m not saying there aren’t other issues, but let’s at least level the numbers to give everyone a chance! You would have many girls have no chance even if there were no other issues, and exacerbate the problem much further since there are other issues. According to your logic, we should close all hospitals since some patients have no known remedy, despite the fact that many do!
On points 4 and 5, we seem to agree that it’s a bigger issue than either of us can decide (I’m not sure why you concede this on point 4 but not on point 5). 70 non-anonymous R”Y agree to the idea of closing the age gap. Since you’re against both boys marrying when younger and girls marrying when older, your definitely not on the same page as them.
On point 6, I’m glad you’re not in total disagreement, but I don’t understand why you refer to a smaller window of marriageability. If a girl gets married at 22, her window was already smaller, let her have a mazel tov now!
Starting salary? Experience (how much?)?
Is there anyone who can make the same claim as the OP that 1/3 of the litvishe families they know have.a 25+ year old single daughter?
As pba pointed out, it would only be fair to consider those families that actually have 25 year old girls.
1) there are more older single girls than boys
True
2) this supposed discrepancy is attributable to boys marrying girls on average 3 years their junior
Also true
3) there are no other significant reasons preventing these older singles from marrying
That’s irrelevant; if age gap is an issue, should it not be addressed because there are other issues?
4) the age differential is unnatural and not based on different rates of maturity or other justifiable considerations
Even if it is natural, it’s still worth considering to avert the tragedy of so many girls who will otherwise not marry. This would be a shikul hada’as for the gedolei hador, not you or I. And thast’s if.
5) there will be no or minimal negative effect in boys marrying younger
See my response to #4, although I agree with you not to reduce the age of the boys significantly.
6) there will be no or minimal negative effect in girls marrying older
I will repeat what I said earlier (I’m not sure why you keep ignoring this point), nobody is telling the girls not to get married, just that the boys should give a fair chance to the older girls. You would have to rephrase #6: “There will be no or minimal effect in the older girls getting married instead of the younger ones.” I would argue that the negatives would be none or minimal (or that it might even be a positive).
You would force your young child into a restroom with a perfect stranger, kicking and screaming?
This point is not intended to detract from any of the other solutions.
Then I have no problem encouraging it for the older girls, most of whom I still think won’t consider it – although your point that there are some Chassidim and Litvaks that are similar is well taken; for those it’s a wonderful idea. It’s still not going to happen in large numbers, though (although it seems we disagree as to what “large numbers” are).
saying that a lot of girls will not get married is bordering with kefirah r’l.
Which one of the 13 ikarim is it in violation of?
Right the Halacha of the IBM pc. Let me look that one up!!!!!!!
I repeat, did you really see anyone post that Jews shouldn’t have computers?