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So the problem is that there are very few boys who have this mindset compared to the number of girls. Rabbi Hoffman actually had an article similar to this point in this weeks FTJT.
Yes, but Rabbi Hoffman does not consider it a cause of the shidduch crises. He considers it an effect of the shidduch crises (demographics) and poor midos.
snjn:
The point that I was trying to make originally was the reason the chassidim don’t have a shidduch crises can be for many reasons and not necessarily only the younger age the boys marry. They look for a shidduch wish such a different attitude. Poor girls don’t get left behind, neither to fat girls. That’s what I was trying to say.
Choosiness would explain why there are many singles remaining; it wouldn’t explain why there’s an imbalance; a much higher percentage of girls than boys. If there were an equal number of boys as girls, for every poor or overweight girl who was left behind, there would be an unmarried boy.
MSS,
I don’t think anyone ever tried to imply that there is any chiyuv to join.
I apologize if you didn’t mean anything negative about the signators.
Apparently, “ein mikra yotzi midei p’shuto” applies here as well.
http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/iced-coffee-or-iced-tea#post-344775
Oomis and 42, golly is a euphemism for G-d.
Medium Size Shadchan,
Giving approval to a specific project is, in fact, encouraging people to join it, at least under certain circumstances. If under the same circumstances, these rabbonim and R”Y wouldn’t join, as you imply, it would be hypocritical.
Yitayningwut,
Yes, short is not the opposite of wide, but ????? can (and does, in this case,) mean narrow, not short.
The clothing of the ??? ????? created an issue of ??? ??? (in other words the men’s clothing was visually similar to the women’s) because, says ??”?, their clothing, as opposed to the ??? ?????? (who had ?????), was ????? ??? ???. In context, clearly ????? means the opposite of ?????.
The ???? then contrasts the clothing of the ????? to that of the ?????. The ????? had ????? that, says ??”?, were ????? ?????, and those of the ????? ??????? were ?????, so they were ????? ?? ???. The ?????, however, had ????? that, says ??”?, were ????? and therefore dissimilar to the men’s ?????. Again, clearly, ????? is the opposite of ?????.
AZ:
Dear Moderator: I’m told…
That probably wasn’t a moderator. Anybody can write in bold.
Medium Size Shadchan:
Im still wondering if ONE of the undersigned have SIGNED UP their own daughters or granddaughters and committed their own hard earned $G$E$L$T$.
snow:
But, even if it was hard, they probably wouldn’t fork over all that money…
What motivates you to be so cynical when you have absolutely no idea what these talmidei chachamim have done or would do?
What right do you have to accuse them of hypocrisy without a shred of evidence?
Shame on both of you.
I referred to the study finding how many girls were still unmarried. Since you did not study the boys, all you have is the conjecture- but no study. I don’t see how you can disagree with that.
Sorry, I thought you were referring to a study which demonstrated that there were more younger girls than older girls. But since you agree that that’s true, and that we start with the “pool” containing more girls than boys, the assumption would be that it remains that way unless either more girls leave the pool, or more boys join it. Again, it seems the opposite.
So you concede that more boys are leaving the pool than girls? So that means that there are also more girls because boys are leaving the pool? So then even if we solve the age gap, there will still be more boys than girls?
Very likely. That doesn’t in any way obviate the need to close the gap. L’moshol, if a family needed to spend $50,000 anually on living expenses but was only earning $48,000, we wouldn’t suggest that they give up a side job with an income of $5,000 (part of the $48k) since they’re anyhow not making ends meet.
Had the reverse been true, and there were more girls leaving the pool and/or more boys leaving, then age gap might counterbalance that and we could keep it. That, I believe, is not the case, however.
yitayningwut,
I think the pashut pshat is that ????? is the opposite of ????? ??? ???? ????.
Pba,
You acknowledge that (1) there are more 9th graders than 12th graders.
I assume (correct me if I’m wrong) that you would extend that to say that (2) there are fewer 12th grade boys than there are 9th grade girls, and that you would also agree that (3) the tendency is for the 12th grade buys to marry the 9th grade girls (eventually).
You started this thread assuming two flaws in the application of these facts to the shidduch crises. The first, if point (2) is conceded, would have to be retracted altogether. The second would only be true if it were reasonable to assume that there are more girls leaving the conventional shidduch pool than boys. Anecdotal evidence suggests the opposite, and it’s a waste of time, money, and energy to try to prove the obvious with a controlled study.
(Females, whisper, so the men won’t hear.)
Unless the men are in the IDF.
R-b,
I think you were supposed to be the maven to be yovin that his question was referring to your subtitles, not cold beverages.
AZ: I agree there’s a discrepancy in number of single girls vs. boys but I think it’s because boys will wait for the younger class of girls to choose their trophy
Well, then, those boys would be single, and there should be the same amount of them as there are single girls. You can’t, logically, agree that there’s a discrepancy in numbers but attribute it to choosiness. Every time a boy gets married, he takes a girl with him.
Health,
I wasn’t referring to your kaas in that thread, I was referring to your kaas in this one – your completely unjustified attack on hello99.
Although, as others have pointed out, it seems to be displayed in most threads in which you participate.
You start by identifying yourself, and wait for the avel to respond. When the conversation stops (or if the avel doesn’t respond), you say “Hamokom yenachem”.
Answer me that one; why is it the girls that have to give up their lofty ideals that are based in holiness because not all boys are that way but the boys, whose ideals are based on gashmius, are not told to be realistic because not all girls are like that. Never mind because they are wrong ideals.
It’s a sad reality, but the cold, hard truth (b’derech hateva) is that it’s because of supply and demand.
rc,
You’re right that there are 19, 20, 21, 22, and 23 year old girls after the 23 year old boys. But why? Why didn’t the 20, 21, 22, and 23 year old girls all get married? The answer is, because there were more of them (per year) when they were 19 then there were 23 year old boys, because of population growth.
In other words, what you describe is true, but it’s not the cause, it’s the effect.
OneOfMany’s nomination was fine, but I thought the follow-up was better:
http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/wheres-the-snow#post-342376
Daas Yochid: where’s the proof that the population growth is as high as you claim it is?
Pba was referring to a study done in girls’ schools which demonstrated that the younger grades are more populated than the older ones. I wasn’t providing proof, i was going along with his assumption.
There are mathematical formulas to determine population growth based on the average number of children per family. You can Google it, just as I have, and I’ve posted my findings in this thread and others, and other posters have as well.
Call. More personal.
Hello99,
While looking up the Achiezer in chelek 4, (I think he discusses electricity in 6) I came across 37 (I think) where he also calls stam yaynom of a m”S a knas.
WIY:
Look for feivel.
My understanding of the shidduch payment is that if the minhag would depend on age as well as location, the payment would vary as well. (No different than any other Sirsur).
It’s certainly possible, but think about it; it would only happen if this program were extremely successful. If we (as a society; I have nothing to do with NASI) can succeed in marrying off hundreds of older girls and preventing igun for so many, wouldn’t it be worth it?
(Unfortunately older girls who aren’t participating in the program will also get less attention and shidduchim.)
Not necessarily; the more shidduchim are made with “older” girls, the more the stigma of marrying an “older” girl is reduced, which ultimately helps all of the “older” girls, not just the ones enrolled.
I’m the one trying to take people’s money?
Yes, if you want to invest in a study. Unless you’ll sponsor, in which case, kol hakavod.
you are the one who is unilaterally raising the standard for shadchanus
I have nothing to do with it. Besides, the only way the standards are raised is if the program works. Would it bother you if more older girls are able to get married?
I know dozens of older single guys.
I’m not sure what your point is. I meant more boys than girls at any given age (i.e. more 10 year old boys than girls, more 17 year old boys than girls, etc.)
And I know dozens of people who are no longer part of the community they grew up in.
Not the point; I don’t assume that that’s the case for females on a larger scale than for males; I assume the opposite.
Pba,
Hamotzi meichaveiro…
You’re the one trying to take people’s money.
My point really, though, is that those assumptions are far fetched.
Pba,
As far as point A, once you’ve proven a certain rate of population growth, it’s not necessary to study the boys, unless you feel the need to disprove the possibility that are are a lot more boys than girls.
As far as point B, you would only need a study to disprove the notion that there are a lot more girls leaving the community.
There are better uses for the money.
Do you like the sub
I preferred “That’s Brisk, Baby”.
I assume you decide which one to use depending on if you’re milchig or fleishig.
Health,
Since when is a coil -Aish? Cause you say so?
http://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=14671&st=&pgnum=504
If you want to prove something from a Teshuva -how about copying it and posting it first?
http://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=919&st=&pgnum=351&hilite=
you only like Torah if you can say something is Ossur or you can do some Chumra and push this Chumra on others too!
you suffer from Kaas also!!!
http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/kanoyim-campaign-against-ywn/page/2#post-343905
Mazel Tov, r-b!
DY – You can do it if we all turn ourselves into DY’s. 🙂
Then I wouldn’t have to do anything!
Health, by the way, was “on time out”, so it was intended to be temporary.
Do the moderators know your old user name?
The people who do as you recommend also have way too many singles, just check out the Upper West Side. So you’re asking people to violate their standards of tznius for no benefit.
“Treif” refers to a KOSHER animal that is not shechted k’halacha.
I believe you’re thinking of neveilah.
brainwashed
That term is used way too loosely, whenever someone is in opposition to an ideal which is taught.
Secular Jews think that we frum Jews are all brainwashed into keeping Shabbos.
I could just as easily say that your friend was “brainwashed” into thinking that a life dedicated to learning Torah is not the ideal for a Jewish family.
Nafkei Mina
Nice term.
I highly doubt it will – shadchanus in halacha is determined by locale, not age.
R-b,
Just a thought … maybe nobody knows which moderator blocked you and, as J/B said, no other moderator will get involved.
Also, have you told them the username on that account?
… that’s not how it works- you can ban by IP address.
They don’t.
Oomis,
The program isn’t mandatory.
I’m kidding, BTW.
R-b,
Of course there is more traffic. That is because everybody goes that way.
Because they’re cheap, not because they’re in a hurry.
You reminded me, by the way, of Yogi Berra’s comment that nobody goes to a certain restaurant anymore, because it’s always too crowded.
Chocandpatience,
You had an idea in the other thread, which I can’t participate in, because I promised.
One word answer:
traffic
That article misrepresents R’ Moshe’s opinion; it mentions nothing about government standards or inspections.
Health,
“Instead of getting blinded by this Poisek or that one -think how similar is the type of cooking to the Meleches Hamishkon.”
That doesn’t address havara.
“Even if it wouldn’t be, the bishul of the cholent would still be D’oraiso.”
Why do you say this -because Rav Moshe says so about a microwave?
What does one thing have to do with another?
The fact that R’ Moshe holds a microwave is D’oraiso, despite the fact that they didn’t have them in the mishkan, shows that you have fundamentally misapplied the concept of “dumya d’mishkan”.
Add my name to the petition (I would be an ingrate not to).