☕ DaasYochid ☕

How sad that people opposed to David’s post, which contained very sensible and non-threatening ideas, even if they aren’t to everyone’s liking, feel the need to reply so venomously.

His idea is not sensible, and quite dangerous. If you carefully read David’s post, he is admitting to occasionally submitting to his yetzer horah on the web, yet still defends keeping his access unfiltered!

Relying on self control alone is a wonderful ideal, but, as Chaza”l tell us and life experience bears out, it doesn’t work.

The thousands of broken neshomas and marriages that we are suffering due to internet addictions all rationalized that they can and will control themselves.

Cherrybim,

Why do you say that it would be hypocritical? Is it assur to see/hear Torah via the Internet? Certainly not!

I assume you’re addressing me.

Note that I said “somewhat” hypocritical. You are correct, that it’s not inherently assur to access the web for purposes of Torah. The issue here seems primarily to be that the yetzer horah to access inappropriate material is so strong, that the poskim feel that unfiltered web access is completely assur, and even filtered is only acceptable if necessary.

There is a quandary as to whether or not Torah based sites are worthwhile. The upside is quite obvious. The downside is much more subtle, but quite compelling as well.

Since even filtered web access is not recommended (for obvious reasons – filters are far from perfect or impenetrable), there’s a disadvantage to these types of sites’ availability, since their existence encourages, to some degree, web access.

By not (intentionally) making it easier for someone with web access to obtain a recording of the event, the organizers are being mechazek those who have made the commendable decision to keep away from all web access.

I’m sure plenty of people find it funny. They also miss the point.

This feed was not supposed to be available for the public, it was used to send the video to the remote locations where the asifa was viewed.

The point of the asifa was to stress that having web access is not recommended wherever possible to avoid (and that unfiltered access is unacceptable under all circumstances).

Making the recording easier to access through the web (intentionally) would have been somewhat hypocritical, but using the internet to send the feed to remote locations is not.

It’s interesting (and I guess expected) that people here on YWN (an English language site) feel there was too much Yiddish.

You should know, though, that in Williamsburg, many people are upset that there was so much English.

You can’t please everyone.

To state the obvious:

A device based filter is needed if the device will access the web through an unfiltered connection.

An ISP (or at least router) based filter is needed if any unfiltered device will access that connection/router.

In many cases, both will be needed (be careful, though they are not always compatible).

No filter is 100% foolproof which is why it’s better to have no access where feasible, and one reason why nobody ever claimed that filters, or even lack of access, is a substitute for yiras shomayim and proper chinuch. They can be, however, an effective compliment.

Writersoul,

You missed the point. The victim in that case was probably taught, since she was two years old, not to talk to strangers. She didn’t think she was talking to a stranger.

BTW, see apushtayid’s response on the other thread.

I have a Yahoo e-mail address. That’s why i go on that site..

It’s unnecessary to go on the Yahoo sire to access a Yahoo email address (aside from the fact that it’s unnecessary to have a Yahoo address to begin with).

I happen to have a Yahoo address in order to receive emails through a frum Yahoo group, But I have no need to visit the actual site.

PBA,

You’re welcome.

HaLeivi,

I did, but only from a distance, so had I not known in advance that there were protests expected, I would not have known what it was.

My friends are almost all very positive about it (all that went to it are), and as I mentioned, a few have made kabbalos regarding filters. I wouldn’t call it a “ban”; it’s actually a psak halacha, based on the gemara in Bava Basra.

I’m “Litvish” in the sense that I learned in “regular” (whatever that means) yeshivos. (I was not actually born in Lithuania.)

I’m being moche against this post.

AZ,

I saw R’ Chaim’s psak, but only heard R’ Wosner’s second hand. Can you please elaborate?

Zahavasdad,

DY

Do you Belive cancer and other illnesses are caused by the internet?

I’m pretty sure that cancer was around before the internet, as were many other illnesses.

Why do you ask?

He said that whatever the Gedolim who spoke after him said would be binding. Unfortunately, I don’t really know what that is because they were almost all in Yiddish after that.

Does that make what they said non-binding, or does that obligate you to find out what they said?

Zahavasdad,

False. R’ Elya Brudny and R’ Ephraim Wachsman both spoke in English.

Poster, as I said, I’ll aim to be there at 6 to be seated, even if it takes an hour, by 7 for the program.

“people are going to look for ways to get around the filter.”

According to your previous post, not people with a brain.

I prefer the compound lever type of nail clipper over the pliers type. Both are better than scissors.

Those who claim that they need unfiltered internet – Am I correct to assume that a monitoring system such as Web Chaver would not get in the way?

Logician specified that he is not talking about anyone in particular.

I think Lieberman was personally frum in every way. His aveira was joining JTS, giving them legitimacy. His motive was simply to have a nice income so that he could sit and learn in peace.

The site is B”H back up.

http://kosherhaircut.com/

OneOfMany,

Thanks. I still read the CR once in a while, but posting became very time consuming, so I’ve refrained.

DY: I take it that if, theoretically, one could be and was certain that he would not have otherwise purchased it, you are maskim there is no issur to copy. (Otherwise, why would you be pursuing the point that you don’t think it is possible for a person to be confident of that point.)

I pursue that point “l’ravcha d’milsa”. There are other considerations as well.

hershi,

The fallacy in your analogy is that a music or software cd’s value is not in it’s physical presence, it’s in the creative, financial, and time investment put into it. the CD itself is worth about ten cents, a downloaded file worth nothing, physically.

As far as being honest with yourself, I’ll relate a story told to me by the protagonist. A relative had a copy of Judaea, a 1981 release which was (and still is) a unique sound in Jewish music. He rationalized that he would never buy it, so he copied it. When he lost his copy, he went back to his relative to copy it again, but he had also lost his. So he bought it. He then realized that he couldn’t trust himself to accurately judge when he would or wouldn’t have bought something, so he stopped his practice of copying.

Yit,

See what the Debriciner Rav has to say about those who mistakenly were mattir (chelek 6, Kuntreis haelectri, siman 23 and others).

http://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=889&st=&pgnum=455

I didn’t know how to find that yarchon; thanks, I’ll take a look.

Hershi,

If you own something, you have a right to use it yourself or lend it to another; it’s all part of the ownership of that one item. If you copy something, you have two of the item, although you only bought the rights to one.

Also, I don’t believe that the argument “I wouldn’t have bought it otherwise” can safely be used. As one rov replied to someone who asked about copying, “of course you wouldn’t buy it if you can get it for free by copying it!”