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MP,
Since Adam Harishon, we’ve had a yetzer horah, and that isn’t changing. We have to deal in that reality.
Rav Mattisyahu Salomon has said on many occasions that the internet is not evil, just a nisayon. You appear to have been misled into thinking that there’s a campaign to call the internet evil. There isn’t. There’s a campaign to educate (in some cases, in very forceful ways), that it’s potentially dangerous, and must be treated as such. But it’s not about calling it evil, just a very powerful tool i the hands of the yetzer horah.
On e comment of yours really puzzles me. You write, “It’s only a nisayon if you make it out to be one. But it doesn’t have to be one.” What does that mean? It is one! Can someone decide that yichud “doesn’t have to be” a nisayon and therefore ignore those halachos? HKB”H wired us a certain way, and demands of us that we deal with that reality, not in a world of ideals.
The Gemara says, “???? ?? ??? ????? ???? ??? ???, ?????? ???”? ?????, ???? ???? ??”, that without Hashem’s help, we are unable to overcome the yetzer hora. The “confidence” you speak about is misplaced. One can only be confident that he can overcome the yetzer hora if he has Hashem’s help. How can one expect Hashem’s help when he doesn’t follow His guidelines?!
My next post, also copied from the Kinus Brochure, will highlight the aspect of the need for yiras shomayim.
Rebdoniel,
I assume that you learn part time, and that your question is whether you should switch your venue to a yeshiva. If your question was whether or not to start learning part time, the answer would be obvious on its own. Even aside from the mitzvah of talmud Torah, there’s the added “shelo lishma” that any sincere bas Yisroel wants a husband with some level of commitment to learning.
If your question is if locating your seder would be beneficial to your chances of finding a shidduch, my answer would be an unequivocal “yes”. It’s the best type of networking. As long as relocating to a yeshiva wouldn’t be detrimental to your learning, go for it! In most cases, it’s actually quite beneficial to learn in a beis medrash with a “kol Torah”.
If you’re emotionally ready to get married, don’t wait to be settled into a career. I feel the sooner the better.
Much hatzlocha!
When I Lost My Husband
It is not easy to talk about it, but it is crucial for people to hear about the havoc that the internet can leave in its wake. Until recently, I would never have believed that the internet could so effectively destroy someone. Even today, I do not entirely comprehend the powerful grip it could extend to the point that a normal intelligent person loses complete control of himself. But, simply put, it happened to me.
silly tricks and stunts and other nonsense), chat with pals he befriended on the internet (for which he even set up a microphone system), play games for hours on end, manage bank accounts, do computer-related favors for family members like finding the cheapest prices for anything they might want to purchase, Googling any phone number or address they needed, and providing them with computerized directions to any destination. And last but not least, checking for new emails every few seconds and then forwarding them on to others. I felt he was interested in everything in the world except me. I simply did not hold his interest.
Nothing. Zero.
Save your shalom bayis before it is too late.
and now if i may qoute one of the organizers of the event
“it was a disaster”
I rest my case.
It was not a disaster, b”H, not even close. Thousands of people have already installed filters (1200 customers cancelled their Verizon Mobile data service within a few days, as told to me by a local rov) and aside from the thousands the Ichud claims in the paper to have been assisted in installing a filter, many more thousands did so without help from the Ichud. For example, a friend of mine asked for advice in how to put in a filter. I was unable to help him because he needs a certain type of connection, so he called TAG, but most people can figure it out on their own ot with help from a friend.
Your laughing in someone’s face because one NASI ad generated 1700 calls was not well thought out, IMO (I’ll assume that you meant it metaphorically and won’t repeat someone’s mussar shmuez to you). To sign up for the NASI project, one needs to contact NASI. To get a filter, or get rid of the internet altogether (which many have b”H done) one does not need to call TAG. 1700 is amazing, considering that many people don’t even need them!
Two different local rabbonim have told me that the asifa was a major success (one called it a “smashing success”).
The message is getting out there , properly, loud and clear. The fact that internet was made into such a b’dieved is a great thing. Even those who have it will exercise much more caution than had the asifa been about comparing J-net to K-9.
May your case rest in peace.
APY,
There is nothing in your presentation of the Rebbe Shlita”s viewpoint which I disagree with.
I’m not sure why you think there is.
I’m sure you don’t imagine that the Rebbe Shlit”a has internet access.
Wolf,
For all practical purposes, no, because someone contemplating suicide is highly unlikely to be doing so to be evil. He’s probably mentally ill, or at least very distraught.
Hitting Rock Bottom
It was as if I was glued to my chair in front of the computer and nothing could entice me to leave it. And when I absolutely had to leave, i.e. to go home for dinner or the like, it was always with much reluctance, and I impatiently schemed how I could quickly return to the magic of the screen. Not surprisingly, this addiction came at a cost.
And then came Yom Kippur, the holiest day of the year. At one point in the middle of davening, I paused to take stock of my ruchnius, or lack of same. I was overcome by a sudden surge of profound regret. I let my tears flow unabashedly as
I thought about my abysmal state. Would Hashem ever forgive me? By motzei Yom Kippur I felt cleansed. I experienced a measure of tranquility that had eluded me for months.
Today, I spend much of my time doing teshuvah and being mispallel that Hashem forgive me for all that I have wrought. But I know only too well that the decadence and indecency that I have imbibed will not soon dissipate and will always come back to haunt me. I no longer have a computer, but I do have a BlackBerry, albeit with a J-net filter.
Trust me. I know.
My response to the first paragraph of your post is to strongly disagree with the premise that a home such as you describe is unlikely to produce a child who is a bad influence.
As far as the second part of your post, I would hope that not not only would such a person be ostracized, he would be, more importantly, watched very carefully.
MP,
You’re talking about a very wonderful ideal – that everyone had the tools to overcome the yetzer horah, and always utilized them, without any external help. We don’t live in such a world, though.
If we did, we could leave our doors unlocked at night.
If we did, Chaza”l would never have had to institute any gezeiros.
If we did, we wouldn’t daven “al t’vieinu lidei nisayon” because we would relish the challenge.
Rather, we are supposed to dread sin and distance ourselves as much as possible, especially as it pertains to these specific desires.
Wolf,
In your hypothetical case, is the child likely to have a negative influence on his/her schoolmates based on the father’s wickedness?
It would be so wonderful if we all had self control, or if you prefer, the confidence and tools to overcome our yetzer harah. Alas, for many,the yetzer horah is stronger.
Here’s another story of someone who fell, lo aleinu. (Aside from these printed in the brochure from which I quote, there are thousands more. Many thought they had the self control/confidence and tools…)
Hitting Rock Bottom
It was as if I was glued to my chair in front of the computer and nothing could entice me to leave it. And when I absolutely had to leave, i.e. to go home for dinner or the like, it was always with much reluctance, and I impatiently schemed how I could quickly return to the magic of the screen. Not surprisingly, this addiction came at a cost.
And then came Yom Kippur, the holiest day of the year. At one point in the middle of davening, I paused to take stock of my ruchnius, or lack of same. I was overcome by a sudden surge of profound regret. I let my tears flow unabashedly as I thought about my abysmal state. Would Hashem ever forgive me? By motzei Yom Kippur I felt cleansed. I experienced a measure of tranquility that had eluded me for months.
Today, I spend much of my time doing teshuvah and being mispallel that Hashem forgive me for all that I have wrought. But I know only too well that the decadence and indecency that I have imbibed will not soon dissipate and will always come back to haunt me. I no longer have a computer, but I do have a BlackBerry, albeit with a J-net filter.
Koachshtikah,
A quote from Rav Viener’s essay: “One lesson we learn, then, is that no one can claim that he is impervious to the temptation of the internet. We must all seek ways to protect and distance ourselves from this threat to our spiritual security.”
The following is a selection of some of the many stories of people who have
fallen victim to the internet. They are far from the worst stories, but they reflect
the broadest spectrum of people, experiences and communities.
And yet, bad as we may think it is, the destructive influence of the internet is worse than people imagine. It is chilling to think about. Yet, this is the reality we live in.
How the Internet Ruined Me Financially
A chill runs up my spine as I recall the dismal levels to which I had sunk before Hashem guided me to the help I desperately needed in the nick of time. It is unnecessary to relate the entire chain of events in all its gory details. It is enough that I describe to you just the tip of the iceberg, enough to help you imagine just how destructive this technology can be, sans the proper precaution.
It all started when I entered into a partnership with my friend, opening an online business together.
I was delighted that I no longer had to haul heavy boxes or answer to a demanding boss. I was the luckiest person on earth, or at least
I gradually became more and more hooked on this miracle technology, and I would spend hours upon hours in its tentacles. Everything fascinated me and I left nothing unexplored. It came to a point that I simply did not have enough hours in
my day to visit all my favorite websites, to chatwith all my electronic friends, read all the interesting blogs and surf around the endless sea of the internet. I just had to spend every spare second I had in cyberspace. I would often tell my wife
that I had to return to the office in the evening to finish up some business, and then I would sit there well past midnight, clicking my way through the
great wide cyber world.
But I finally had my rude awakening when I was struck with a heavy financial blow. My partner eventually realized that I was fooling around and my part of the work was not getting done properly. One dark Wednesday, after an acrimonious
exchange, I found myself without a partner and without a job.
job. This was now my official occupation all day long. I fooled myself into thinking I would find other employment shortly. Obviously, however, you find nothing by floating through cyberspace, except for more problems.
You observed a phenomenon.
Your wife explained it.
Why can’t you both be right?
This is the booklet that was intended to be distributed at Citi Field. I don’t know if it will be distributed in Flatbush.
Note to moderator: the websites at the end of this piece were printed in the booklet, so please allow the entire post through; thanks.
Family Security And Issues Of Lifnei Iveir
Rabbi Yosef Viener
Question:
I have internet in my home and office, and a friendof mine claims that if I do not filter or monitor the content, I could be violating the issur of lifnei iveir lo sitei michshol. He argues that my allowing unrestricted internet use by my family and employees will no doubt cause them spiritual harm, and the responsibility for the damage will be partially my fault. This concept is new to me. Is it indeed necessary for me to install the proper filtering software, or is it merely a suggestion for those who want to be machmir?
Answer:
We are going to discuss an issue that might seem like an old topic, because there have been many gatherings to address the issue. Much to my surprise and chagrin, however, the message does not seem to have hit home. The security we will discuss is that of the sanctity of the family, which is currently suffering from the most insidious and dangerous attack ever leveled against it: the internet.
Yet, people are either oblivious to the danger or are deliberately choosing not to focus on it.
The rest of the advice in this essay is addressed to those who must have internet access.
No One is Immune to Harmful Influence
Before we move onto the practical realm of how to deal with the internet, it is important to address those people who feel that their families are impervious to the temptation provided by the internet.
One lesson we learn, then, is that no one can claim that he is impervious to the temptation of the internet. We must all seek ways to protect and distance ourselves from this threat to our spiritual security.
But there is another important lesson that we can learn from the story of Yitzchak and Yishmael. All of the forms of security we are about to discuss will help only for our own homes. The safeguards we put into place will not help if we do not know where our children are at all times, with whom they are associating, and what those children are exposed to and able to access.
So while we will discuss what can be done to protect our own homes, it is equally vital that you know where your children are going each time they leave the house. It sounds wearisome, but a momentary lapse in your vigilance can introduce them to a yetzer hara that is extremely difficult to fight.
The Case of Shloimy
fateful weekend, Shloimy began a descent on the slippery slope that has felled so many.
internet access.
Certainly, Hashem gave us a gift called teshuvah, and just as a computer has a delete button, Hashem can help a person delete those images as well. However, if the proper precautions are not taken, a relapse is possible at any time. An integral part of the teshuvah process is ensuring that the proper steps are taken to help mitigate the possibility of transgression.
Issur Yichud with a Computer
[the mitzvah to refrain] [such sins]. One should refrain from yichud, because it is the greatest cause [for sins of this nature]
This boy explained that when he started failing in this area, he sank into a deep depression, certain that he was depraved and that no one else was struggling with this desire. Once I explained that it was normal, he felt that he could deal with it.
Filtering and Accountability
Let me outline the system that I feel must be in place on every computer that has internet access, whether at home or in the office. Again, the best solution is still to have no internet access in the first place, but in cases where that is not an option, we need to have a two-tiered security system comprised of filtering software and reporting software.
Some programs do both filtering and reporting, and some do only one of the two; you can install more than one program on your system to provide comprehensive coverage.
Let me explain the purpose and operating method of each of the two types of software.
Filtering Software
In addition, a determined child (or adult) can figure out a way to work around a filter so that he (or she) can get to the inappropriate material, or he can stumble on the password for the filter and disable it.
It is therefore imperative that you add the second layer of protection: a reporting system.
Reporting Software
Employing this two-tiered system is the only way to have internet access without presenting a clear and present danger to the sanctity of our homes. Many people who have suffered from an internet addiction have been cured after installing such software and being forced to face a rav or Rebbi who actually took the time to read the reports and contact their mispallel or talmid and discuss it, thu successfully weaning him off of the addiction.
I cannot overemphasize the need for the reporting software. Filtering is simply not enough. The people who invent these reporting programs consider it so vital that when you set up the options for the frequency at which the reports will be generated, you will notice that one of the options is to have a report sent every hour. If the team that created this software realized how dangerous the internet is, how much more so should we.
A Word on Passwords
Toward Greater Productivity: Internet at Home
Toward Greater Productivity: Internet in the Workplace
Similarly, if you are an employee in a firm and you sit alone in an office with a computer that is not filtered, make sure to get the computer technician in your office to place a filtering and reporting system on your computer. If it is impossible to make such changes in your office, perhaps it is time to reevaluate your working there. Remember, turning the Shechinah away from you will only hurt your parnassah prospects.
A Note to Women
Chazal teach that women lead the way when it comes to maintaining the sanctity of the home. In Parashas Bo, Pharaoh offers to allow the men to go serve Hashem in the wilderness, as long as the women and children would remain in Mitzrayim. In Divrei Aggadah, Harav Yosef Shalom Elyashiv explains that Pharaoh realized that if the men were allowed to serve Hashem on their own, they would not last long. They could only succeed if the women were backing and supporting them in their efforts.
Please do not assume that you are not in danger as well. Although women are generally not as susceptible to the yetzer haras that plague men, the enticing nature of the web can (and unfortunately does) ensnare both genders.
A small sampling of the many filter and reporting programs available:
For a rundown on these and other filter programs, see internet-filter-review at www. toptenreviews.com. Also, see the Re-Solutions section of this publication.
Here is a text version of the introduction to the brochure which was supposed to have been distributed at the asifa. I will try topost more of it as I am able to format it.
Throughout our generations of wandering since we entered this long and bitter golus, our nation has been faced with many trials. Only by standing together and remaining firmly entrenched in the faith of our fathers have we persevered. Yet today we find ourselves threatened by a test of frightening magnitude, one that has already done untold harm to our people. It is an unseen adversary that jeopardizes our very existence.
To place this evening in its proper perspective, the following critical points must be underscored:
Internet Solutions
There is no excuse for using the internet where it is not absolutely necessary.
Anyone who need not expose himself to a dangerous and highly contagious disease is forbidden by the Torah to do so, even if he takes all possible precautions.
Uniting Against the Threat
The Gedolim have urged Klal Yisrael to gather as one to fight a common enemy. The problem is truly universal, and requires a united front to deal with. At this historic asifa, we must establish a basic standard for everyone to adhere to in their relation with the internet.
The purpose of our gathering together is to unify Klal Yisrael in recognizing the problem that affects all of us. Every Jew in every community must commit to dealing with it. The asifa will help us all understand what daas Torah dictates as the minimum safeguards that must be in place when we use the internet.
Of course, each kehillah must have its own Rav, Rosh Yeshiva or Rebbe to serve as its guide in all areas of life. This issue is no exception. Every kehillah may build on these basic standards according to the needs of its members. Praiseworthy are the communities that are able to implement even higher and better standards!
A Unique Opportunity
We are one nation and our gathering together tonight was intended to emphasize this point. Many of our actions and decisions are directly affected by those around us. For example, most of us have little temptation to work on Shabbos or eat non-kosher food, because we draw strength from our peers and the community around us.
This can be a powerful tool in the service of Hashem. At the same time, however, it makes our observance of the Torah and mitzvos much less personal. How much reward do we deserve for a mitzvah we may be keeping largely due to peer pressure?
We must recognize this uniquely personal nisayon as a golden opportunity. Perhaps more than in any other area of our Torah-based lives, the internet gives us the opportunity to display our love for Hashem and our determination to fulfill His will.
Each time a Jew holds himself back from visiting a website that he knows is not appropriate, from one wrong click, he is acting out his pure love and fear of Hashem. It is a moment to be tapped in to; a moment that calls out for reflection and prayer.
Maintaining our purity when dealing with the internet is a supreme expression of our dedication to and love for Hashem!
In Conclusion
May your participation in this once-in-a-lifetime event carry you through all the trials you will face in life, and may this merit earn you unlimited blessings from above, for good health, abundant wealth and happiness for you and all of your family!
*** ???? ??
147,
Your opinion is reprehensible, and your false attribution of that opinion to Rabbi Reisman is even more reprehensible.
bygirl93,
He said it in a public forum.
Syag,
I wasn’t looking for kudos, just to make a point that highlighting the importance of one topic (internet filters) is in no way an indication that another topic (loshon hora) is somehow unimportant.
Feif,
Every summer, the CCHF makes a whole bunch of mini-asifos on Tisha B’av. (My family, in our small way, helps in the sponsorship and presentation of the videos in one particular venue.)
B”H, I think they’ve done a great job in raising awareness of the issue.
I am m’kanei those who have done so much to raise the awareness of both shmiras halashon and shmiras haeinayim. It’s still up to each individual to fight his yetzer horah, but their z’chus is immense.
This appears to be letzanus.
No, it appears to be a sincere plea to be careful in shmiras halashon.
So your choice
Trust the scoreboard operator
Trust his own signature
Or listen to the recording. Why is that not one of your options?
WC:
?
So, you’re suggesting that the Chofetz Chaim Heritage Foundation set up a full website?
Dear Dr. Feif,
I have a problem with a couple of virtual friends of mine who have encountered serious discord in their relationship.
You see, one of them started an online advice column about eight months ago, and now, just a few days ago, the other started one of his own, and the first fellow seems quite perturbed about it, to say the least.
How do I help them to see past their differences and repair their friendship?
Sincerely,
Aharon Cohen
Umm… I think you mean contraption.
Moderator – rather than post this, you can fix 147’s typo.
The quality of advice columns has sunk really low.
You can say that again! 🙂
Thanks for the laughs!
Was your username blocked?
Why do you new to cover the controls?
Our blech is a simulation of the “grufa uk’tumah” of the Mishnah. The reminder not to raise the fire was evident in both the fire itself and in the “controls” (the fire was stoked, so the fire was both the heat source and the control). In our stoves, the control knobs are apart from the fire. If a reminder needs to be evident in the controls as well (as was the case in the times of the Mishnah), the knobs need to be covered. (Based on IG”M O.C. 1: 93)
Truth be told according to the Rema one could return something to the blech b’dieved without either of the conditions, as long as it is not a liquid item that has cooled off completely.
He says, though, “tov l’hachmir”, and based on M”B’s explanation, his heter might not apply to modern stoves.
Why not, if it’s solid? Ein Bishul Achar Bishul.
Because of “nireh k’mevashel” (see S.A. Horav 253: 14, and IG”M O.C. 1: 93 that a blech does not help for this).
ZD,
I didn’t say that the internet usage in my peer group was in order; if it was, nobody would need to make any changes! I said that the people in my peer group are more likely to make those changes.
As an aside, smartphones can have their browsers removed, locked, disabled, or filtered (although I’m sure some of those you saw were none of the above).
Avi K,
That’s a strange argument. Almost nothing in life has no down side. Should I stop learning Gemara because I once twisted my ankle while trying to reach a sefer on a high shelf? Everything has it’s balance, and your issues were extremely trivial. And your analogy to installing a filter, which is a basic safeguard against the yetzer horah, to becoming a nazir, is beyond comprehension.
MiddlePath,
Just to demonstrate that nobody is suggesting filters as a total solution, I will paste a sentence from a piece released by the Ichud about a follow up gathering of rabbonim, addressed by R’ Mattisyahu Shlit”a:
Writersoul,
You hit upon, but for some reason dismissed, the continuation of my analogy. Yes, there can be proper use for certain drugs, and when necessary, one must learn the proper way to administer them. There are other drugs besides marijuana which have both positive and destructive uses; steroids and narcotics come to mind.
Should we educate our children how to administer these drugs because they have potential benefits?
I’ve unfortunately seen the destruction internet addiction has wreaked on individuals and families (and the rabbonim who were involved in the asifa have seen it a great deal more than I), and I’m not willing to concede that the benefits outweigh the danger.
I can’t address the use of Facebook for business purposes, since I don’t understand it, but an adult using it merely for business is likely different than it being used socially.
Mailah of Gmail vs. Yahoo is no picture ads, but if you use a program such as Outlook, it makes no difference.
I know people who had to switch IP provided email addresses when they switched providers, so, unless there’s some law which they (and I) don’t know about allowing one to keep his email address regardless, I wouldn’t recommend it.
Switching active email accounts shouldn’t be too difficult; just have all mail forwarded to the new address. (Unlike the USPS, there’s no six month limit.)
All the real techies out there can correct whatever mistakes I made in this post.
David,
I will quote from your earlier post.
And, as a human, I make my own conscious decisions about morality and I bide by them. Not ALWAYS–as I AM human, after all–but most of the time.
A reference to not always biding by conscious decisions about morality is very different than what you now claim is only incidental exposure to inappropriate material. I apologize for the misunderstanding. Nevertheless, incidental exposure is certainly reason enough to require a filter.
The fact that filters are easily evaded is all the more reason to advocate complete avoidance of internet access, not a reason to forego the filter. At the least, it demands stronger, more difficult to evade, filters.
Chaza”l do say, actually, that one must take extreme precautions in areas of arayos. I don’t fathom how you can compare being on the same side of the street as a woman with having free and easy access to all sorts of arayos on the web. Artificial moral construct though it may be, blocking easy access to the type of tempting material available on the web is an imperative, and I don’t see how one can possibly distinguish this from the Gemara’s imperative to avoid unnecessarily passing an area in which women are doing laundry. Is that not also an “artificial moral construct”?
No, questioning the direction given to us by our gedolim is not heresy. It’s just lacking common sense. (If you’re arguing on Chaza”l, that’s another story, but I’m hopeful that you don’t realize that that’s what your doing).
Why did you choose to say “A filter is absolutely essential”, and not “Proper education of how to use it responsibly is absolutely essential”?
Because that’s already assumed – not specifically a course in filter or computer or internet use, but a proper Torah chinuch which informs us how to navigate all nisyonos in life, not just the web.
But are there people who are now trying to get properly educated in how to use the internet responsibly? I would hope so. I would hope there are at least as many people doing that as there are who are now getting filters.
By far the most important step to use the internet properly is to get a proper filter.
TCG,
My post as well as Naysberg’s were meant rhetorically, yet you keep on bringing them up rather than directly address the issue.
His post was actually better than mine. Although I’m quite skeptical about the absolute impossibility of any type of filter or accountability/monitoring program, it’s possible that I’m wrong. It’s also possible that if it really is impossible, it’s muttar for you to have it (although it doesn’t seem that way based on the psakim I’ve seen and heard).
You attitude, though, that your need for it overrides normative halachic procedures, and you’ll seek a new rabbi or peer group if you need to, is horrible.
It’s like getting a filter before the asifa.
Feif Un,
In your peer group, likely not many.
In mine, plenty (I’m helping two friends of mine install filters, and another friend of mine knows two people who have already gotten rid of their web access).
DY, being an am kadosh and needing to remain pure are wonderful things, but they won’t necessarily prevent someone from viewing something undesirable.
That’s exactly why it’s much better not to have web access, and if access is necessary, a filter is absolutely essential.
I object to focusing on filters WITHOUT focusing on, with at least as much energy, proper education.
So do I.
So, if there really is a plan of action in the frum world to provide proper education about what is wrong and WHY it is wrong
That’s an obvious conclusion which comes from a Torah chinuch.
and how to use the internet responsibly
Here’s where our disagreement begins. Why focus on something which is best avoided? You wouldn’t want your kids being taught how to safely become intoxicated, would you? (I know – it’s not a perfect analogy because you’ll argue that for some, web access is a necessity, but I agree to proper education in how to use the internet for someone who needs it, starting with how to properly filter).
In the end the English Speakers will be more upset if Yiddish is spoken than the Yiddish speakers will be if English is Spoken
How would you know that?
If the entire issue was legitimate, they would not resort to lying,
The unscrupulous tactics of a hired telemarketing firm does not necessarily reflect upon the integrity of the tzeddakah organization which it represents.
It might, though reflect on its choice of hired fundraisers. Why don’t you give the organization a call and report them?
Lakewhut,
We’re not just talking about kids.
Besides, what you wrote is a gross generalization. If a child is brought up with proper chinuch (which is much broader than this discussion),he/she will often follow his/her parents’ guidance (which includes restrictions) with simcha.
Haifagirl,
If you bring this up to share some humor, it’s cute.
If this really bothers you, I don’t know what to say. Do you really expect every comment on the internet (or world wide web, if you prefer) to be grammatically correct?
I am just against the massive focus on having filters, without focusing on how important self control is, and how becoming educated in WHY things are wrong is far better than having a filter without that knowledge.
I don’t know why you think the two are mutually exclusive. The massive focus on filters has in no way detracted from the message about our being an Am Kadosh and needing to remain pure.
Nobody (that I know of) has ever said that filters are enough, and one doesn’t need yiras shomayim and proper chinuch.
Why would you object to the “massive focus on filters” when you agree that it’s an important tool, and nobody has suggested it replacing self control/yiras shomayim, only complimenting?
MP,
Nice theory, but contrary to Chaza”l.
There are also serious inconsistencies in your analogy.
Moving out, while indicating that the thieves won, does not in any way mean that the yetzer horah won. Avoiding nisayon is a tool which the Ribono Shel Olam gave us and demands that we use whenever possible.
Building a fence, we agree, is not ideal, but can be helpful.
Learning to defend yourself is great, but you somehow forgot to mention that the thieves may win, and you’ll be dead.
You also misunderstand the position that self control is insufficient. That point of view (which is Chazal”s) in no way diminishes the need for self control; it merely mandates complimenting it with whatever other means are possible.
Aishes Chayil,
I said “inherently”.
There is no halacha that forbids one from walking down a street (though I’m sure some people will think of something)
You’re right; I thought of something.
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Hello99,
I never understood the Gemara in Berachos or that Rashi literally.
I hadn’t noticed your use of the term “akin”, only the term “issur gezel”.
If the point is that it is so morally deficient to copy ones IP that it can be considered “akin” to gezel and assur despite no literal gezel, I can understand that, although it’s certainly not a chiddush I would be comfortable saying on my own. (The poskim who said it, if that’s indeed what they mean, certainly do have the shoulders for that, though).