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yitzyshalom,
Now we know why the mods didn’t allow your posts.
What you call “being extra chumradik on various specific halachot” include things which are by no means chumros “that the haredim decided are most important”, rather, basic halacha.
Your statement that “Being dati is accepting the 13 ani ma’amims; accepting the torah and the talmud” has a glaring omission. You didn’t mention that actually keeping the laws included in the Torah and the Talmud is necessary to be considered “dati”.
I just checked Mostly Music’s Facebook page and didn’t see that.
The page you saw (Mostly-Music) is a fan page and is not controlled by Mostly Music. The official page (MostlyMusicFB) was deactivated so you didn’t see it.
I expect that dash is correct, although I couldn’t check, because social networking is not allowed by my filter (as per my instructions to the company that administrates it).
The article which I posted was copied from a different website.
DY: Even access from a place of business is supposed to be limited to use for business purposes only.
As opposed to… (YWNCR?)
Now, if someone is wasting his employer’s time, that’s obviously wrong. But if someone already has internet access which allows MM, do you really think any rov is going to have an issue with him downloading some Yossel’e Rosenblatt albums during his break? I don’t.
But if you do, I would have expected you not to visit YWN either, and certainly not to post in the CR.
Voldemort,
Why do you assume that Mostly Music’s website can only be accessed from home, and not a place of business?
So which people are now going to use mostly music? the ones who have internet at home for business purposes? If so, mostly music falls under the category of “business use” in what sense.
I don’t understand your question.
Kudos to Mostly Music!
The following post appears on the Mostly Music Facebook page:
To our dear loyal mostlymusic costumers & followers:
Here at Mostly Music, we really appreciate you, & your loyalty to us! But we also respect you, and want to do well by you in every way.
A father relates:
A man told us:
I always wondered about my neighbor who had teenagers in the house and a computer with internet access. I actually liked the fact that when I needed internet access from time to time I could go to his house and use his computer. However, I often took the father to task, warning him about the dangers of the internet, and questioning his awareness of the perils it posed in a home. He always waved my concerns away, assuring me that he knew all about how to protect his children. He was himself computer-savvy and controlled the amount of time they spent on it. He would also explain that his children were good, ehrlich and obedient and were not even interested in the bad stuff. In short, they would not be hurt by the computer.
A young man relates:
rarely-used basement.
Now it was all mine. Over the next few years, I wasted countless hours sitting at that computer. I spent many hours with that old computer and tried to fix it myself on countless occasions, and with time I became a real expert in computers. Today, my skill has led me to become a computer technician. My father did not dream, at least not until after my wedding, that this is what his actions had brought me to. But for me, it was a real lesson about how one can never be too careful. Though he had decided to take the warnings to heart and throw the computer out, it was already too late. I had found a way to outsmart him.
A woman relates:
Years ago when I was in school, we had computers on which we learned to us various programs like Word, Excel, etc. Several students, 16- and 17-year-old girls, came up with a way to connect the computers to the internet. Incredibly this occurred in one of our heimishe schools.
The school administration is probably still unaware of this incident.
Wow! There are like 50 things on that list. Is their system so poorly run?
To make a fair determination, you’d have to know the total number of items they certify. If they certify hundreds of thousands of products (which the OU claims they do), 50 might not be too bad.
50 is also a gross exaggeration. Most of those are not OU, and some are that the certification is missing, not wrong.
This OU alert
The CRC alert was about an OK product (although this discussion started about the OU).
Oomis,
I assume the first line in your post was a typo – “milchig” shoud read “pareve”.
I think the issue is not the frum companies per se, but store brands in general (the frum companies don’t usually have their own facilities; they kasher the facilities which produce generic products).
It might be worth a shot to contact Manischewitz and ask them if Mishpacha brand chocolate chips have any traces of nuts. Manischewitz is a fairly large company.
Every kid is entitled to a Jewish education whether they can afford it or not, every couple is entitled to infertility treatment if they R”L need it, every kollel couple is entitled to expensive life-styles at their in-laws expense.
You didn’t mean to equate those, did you?
Three cheers for Feif!
You’re being insensitive. If you were merely being curious, you would ask a posek, not the CR.
And please don’t tell everyone what not to do.
yitayningwut:
“You’re 100% right – money talks. If enough people complain, they might switch back.”
I’m not sure if you’re referring to the company or the hashgacha agency…
Tomche:
I sure hope that quote would not apply to a hashgocha agency.
I was, of course, referring to Trader Joe’s, but yitayningwut very cleverly applied it to the hechsher.
That’s “l’shitaso”.
Oomis,
I too, sent them an email (I’ve never actually used their chocolate chips, but I know that they’re supposed to be better).
You’re 100% right – money talks. If enough people complain, they might switch back. It’s actually not, if I’m properly informed, a manufacturing issue, but a packaging one. Yitayningwut might be technically correct (AYLOR), but I don’t think it’s a good idea to rely on it, since if it ever really becomes milchig, you might never know.
Sorry about the nitpick.
Learn some middos
An interesting intro to a vitriolic post.
Do me a favor why don’t you go to washington heights, clap on the bima of breurs and tell them that their all over on the aveira of baser vchalov.
He said no such thing. He simply commented that they follow certain Rishonim, not others.
Then while your at it, why don’t you stop by lakewood yeshiva and tell them the same thing, since Im sure you know they don’t wait a full six hours
That’s based on a particular interpretation of the shittah of six hours. How do you infer that PBA was disparaging that approach?
You claim to be such a yeira shamayim
I didn’t notice such a claim.
I am more outraged that Trader Joe’s is now making their delicious pareve, and allergy-safe (for my granddaughter, who cannot have even traces of nuts) chocolate chips, MILCHIG or produced on milchig equipment.
Outraged? What did they do wrong? Disappointed, I could understand.
“But it’s still the OU’s responsibility to label it OU D.
“
No it isn’t.
They have a policy to label all milchig products as such, and a responsibility to follow through.
If there were no such policy, and everyone was on their own, I might agree with you.
And popa doesn’t think so either.
Maybe
Obviously, you believe that doing the above in wrong, because it’s wrong to put ourselves into such a situation altogether.
Why is this more of a question on me than on you, since you also agree that a filter is important?
As far as I know, the brochure wasn’t written by a Rishon, and it’s pointless to try to make diyukim to “farenfer a shvere shtikel asifa kuntres” (although I could), but that statement is certainly true when one happens to find himself in such a predicament.
I think most people would feel very uncomfortable if they found out that you came home soaking wet in your shabbos clothes becuase they took your coat
Is this considered a “rov”, and can it be relied upon where there is a chashash of gezel?
Wolf: Get a grip; being oiver on basar b’chalav d’rabbanan is not a little deal. And it is very likely that someone would.
Why did you include your reply to Wolf in your Facebook message to Dirty Chips?
From a halachic perspective, I just want to point out that waiting between meat and milk is not as chomur as eating them together. For example, there’s no issur of milchig/fleishig pas of a type which would not be eaten with the other min (e.g. dairy cake) although one might eat it within six hours. (That’s one p’shat, another is that bread might actually go into a hot kli rishon and cause an issur d’oraiso).
I don’t know whether it’s true or not. As I said, it was simply my guess. I don’t know enough about the OU’s policies and contracts or the economics behind whether or not the threat a mass recall would cause a company to reconsider whether or not to obtain a hechsher at all.
I assume that they *can* recall a product if necessary. If I assumed otherwise, I could not rely on the hechsher. They may have to consider whether the company would have otherwise not obtained a hechsher, but that doesn’t mean I have to eat it.
I’m willing to bet that anyone who is machmir WRT cholov Yisroel AND looks at the ingredients (the first thing *I* would do if I saw something such as this) would know better than eat this.
I, too would look at the ingredients of something labeled “sour cream” before assuming it was pareve. But it’s still the OU’s responsibility to label it OU D.
Actually, one of the reasons I would check the ingredients is because these kinds of mistakes happen all the time.
My guess would be that the OU does not have the power to demand a recall.
If that were true, that would be a much bigger problem than the occasional oversight. They should have a contract with their supervised companies forcing a recall when a serious kashrus concern arises.
The OU not only supervises OU foods and establishments (obviously), but is used by many, many other hechsheirim (both in manufacturing of foods and eateries) for ingredients and such.
Although that’s true, other agencies can pick and choose which products they allow based on OU supervision. The typical consumer is not as well educated as other kashrus agencies to be able to make such distinctions.
This is not a case of basar b’chalav — it’s not as if the chips themselves were cooked with meat —
Correct.
they’re still 100% kosher.
We can nitpick on the term 100%.
In addition, very few, if any people, are going to cook their potato chips with meat.
Agreed. In a broad sense, though, the issur of basar b’chalav includes eating dairy with meat, as well as within six hours (according to each one’s minhag).
Also, aside from bb”c, many are machmir not to eat milk products which rely on the heter of chalav stam, so mislabeling a product is problematic anyhow.
My original limud z’chus still stands, though.
They put out an alert in March.
Maybe they didn’t feel a recall was necessary – it does say “sour cream” on the package.
It’s okay. I know the password.
Jbaldy22,
If I can do it, so can most others.
Will they? I don’t know, but I hope so.
Get one of those raincoats with the big hoods attached so you don’t get it ruined.
An ehrliche yid should know enough not to watch the shows without needing a filter.
The yetzer hora is quite good at getting people to do things which they know they shouldn’t.
Sorry, about that, I forgot to take the duct tape off of my eyes this time.
I tried the coffee filter, but it didn’t stay on, so I used duct tape to keep it on.
sdfo;iiun tp wokm poin tqw wr’jn[otrq
I found this, from the Chicago Community Kollel. Footnote 8 does quote a heter. Ask your posek; I don’t know if it is commonly accepted.
Halacha Encounters
Switched Coats
Rabbi Moshe Rosenstein
The Halachic Background
The Gemora [Bava Basra 41a] and Shulchan Aruch [Choshen Mishpat 136:2] [clothing that was switched with his own]
The Practical Halacha
We will discuss how the poskim instruct us to deal with various different practical scenarios of switched articles of clothing.
An item is missing and there is another, similar item left in its place:
Even if one is completely certain that his item (coat, towel, hat, etc.) was taken accidentally and he is certain that the item left behind belongs to the person who took his (i.e. it is very similar and hanging in the same place his was left), under most circumstances it will not be permissible for him to take the item left behind, even for temporary use.
There is, however, an exception to this rule. If the finder can assume that enough time has passed and the true owner of the item left behind has already realized that he accidentally took the wrong item, it is permissible for the finder to take and use the item left behind.2
Some poskim, however, do not consider this a permanent status. They contend that if two criteria are met, the finder may indeed use the item he took home. If both
If these conditions are met, the poskim say, it can be assumed that the original owner has not only given up hope of finding his item, but he has also resolved himself to considering this switch permanent.3 Some add that before using the item the finder should estimate its monetary value and write in his monetary record books that should he find the actual owner he will pay him back for the item.4
There is, however, an exception to this leniency. If the switched items are exactly the same, then there is no way for the finder to ever be sure that the original owner has even realized that a switch took place. Under these circumstances, it will not be permissible for him to use the item he has found.5
A prevalent custom not to be particular about allowing use of an item
There are certain rulings found in the later poskim that should be mentioned regarding this topic. As with all issues of this nature, a shailoh should be asked if one feels that a situation has arisen that would require clarification of the Halacha.
Additionally, if the finder knows who the owner of the left-behind coat is, and knows that the owner would not mind allowing him to use his coat, it will be permissible.
______________________________
1 See Rashbam B.B. s.v. harei zeh and Shulchan Aruch C.M. 358:5
4 Mishpitei HaTorah vol. 3 3:17. [He does not mention the reasoning above in note 3.]
5 Pischei Choshen ibid. s.v. ela.
6 C.M. 136:2
Rabbi Rosenstein is a full-time member of the Kollel and is a frequent contributor to Halacha Encounters.
In my mind, saying “the poisonous internet” is basically saying “the evil internet”
I disagree. Poison also has it’s positive uses. Which is why it’s a powerful metaphor.
So the confidence I speak of is, I don’t think, misplaced, rather it is a goal. It may not be where we are holding now, but it where we should want to be.
Dovid Hamelech had that goal, but failed his test. We are to take a lesson from him that this is not where our avodas Hashem is. Our job is to avoid nisayon wherever possible, and, yes, build ourselves so that the nisyonos which will inevitably come will be conquerable.
Yes, we shouldn’t run after them, but if we do encounter them, we should realize that it is an opportunity for us to grow and become more holy.
I think in this paragraph you said it better than I did.
In my view, the Citifield asifa, the directives issued, and all of the follow up is directed at the first line in that paragraph.
For all practical purposes, based on human nature, allowing oneself such free and easy access to the temptations available on the internet is running after nisyonos. In the scheme of things, a filter, or refraining from an internet connection altogether, is merely a tool. But the magnitude of the problem, with lo aleinu thousands of “korbonos”, necessitated that a spotlight be shone on this tool.
is it devarim shebeleiv ubeleiv kol adam that the person who took yours would want you to take theirs to stop you getting soaked?
Highly doubtful. You’d have to find a source for that; it’s not “mistaver”.
AFAIK, no heter to take it.
jbaldy22,
I’m not sure what point you’re trying to make.
Yes, I wished my internet connection worked seamlessly, and that I could get every kosher site I needed. But the fact that it doesn’t, doesn’t stop me from filtering, because I consider it a necessity.
That’s my point.
You’re very welcome!
Am I missing something?
Yes, you missed mdd’s post. He (correctly, AFAIK) stated that the Syrian community’s “non-acceptance” of geirim was necessitated by the high number of pseudo-conversions taking place.
A ger is deemed a Jew, but communal privileges are not granted (again, AFAIK).
I found this, with translation included.
Geroshin in himmel, ess tit’zich a timmel, maluchim mit kin’eh,
zai villen farshtain vi azoi flaish un bain hut dergracht azah bechina,
zai freigen baim Boreh, “Vi ken den dus zain,
az Udom der mentch hut ba dir azoi chain,
vus far a z’chisim, far azeliche nissim, zug inz alain!”
A great commotion rocks the heavens: the angels are jealous.
They want to understand how people of flesh and bones merited such a revelation.
They ask Hashem: “How could it be, that Odom, Man, is so favored by You? What sort of z’chusim could they possibly have to be worthy of such miracles? Please tell us!”
Kimtz un zeitzt alain di shvuchim fin main leeben kind,
Tinoikis shel beis rabban, hailig, lechtig, un a zind,
un kiktz! a yidde’le dort loift,
noch a mitzve’le er koift
Yehai sh’mai rabu, hertz vi shain, zai shrai’en nuch “Umain!”
Hashem addresses the angels:
Come see for yourselves the “shvachim” – praises – of My beloved child;
young schoolchildren, holy, radiant, pure of all sin;
and look! There a small Jew is running to grab one more little mitzva;
“Yehei shmei rabba,” listen how beautiful it’s said, and how they all call “Amen!” after him.
Doiros, shaine oiros, zai balachten duch main velt,
Simche, k’dishe mit tahara; dus vos mir gefelt,
Ani ma’amin mit a bren zingt men of kiddish hashem
der hester punim azoi grois, vi halten zai dus ois!?
Generations, beautiful flames that light up My world,
Joy and holiness in purity for my pleasure,
“Ani Ma’amin” with a burning commitment they sing to Me, al kiddush Hashem;
the “Hester Ponim” – concealment – is grajongous! How can they bear it!?
Main kind, oy, s’iz shver, s’falt dir a trer,
mach oif deine oigilech un zeh,
cho’dich lib un a mus, un a shiur, un a tzuhl,
Vail di bist duch mein kind, mein leeber fulk Yisrul,
Hashem – presumably reminding Himself of how much we really rock – addresses the Jewish People:
My child, oy, it’s tough, I can see your tears.
Lift up your eyes so you’ll see:
I love you without cause, without bounds, without measure,
because you are my child, my beloved nation, Yisroel.
Kim neinter tzu mir, s’iz ofen mein tir,
ich vais vi dain hartz, oy, ess benkt,
shoin tozenter yur, och ba mir benkt zich gur
achoisi rayosi, Main aibiker pur.
Come closer to Me, My door is open!
I know how much your heart yearns.
It’s been thousands of years and I’m yearning too
“Achosi rayosi,” My eternal companion.
Yidden, dai’os fil, farshiden, yeder zain derher,
in ainem dinen zai mich, ach, a shainer militerr,
di maluchim zitzt b’rina, genig shoin tzar hashechina,
ess iz gekimmen yetzt di tzeit, moshiach iz shoin grait!!
Jews are full of opinions; each one has a unique way of understanding Me; they all serve me, ach what a beautiful army!
While the angels sit comfortably, the time has come for the Shechina to stop suffering;
Yes, it’s come, now is the time, Moshiach is ready to arrive!
[Chorus] Main kind…
Geroshin in himmel, ess tit’zich a timmel, Maluchim zingen shira,
zai takke farshtain vi flaish un bain hut dergracht durch zain bechira
gerecht iz der Boreh, zei huben erlich fardint!
Zai hitten der Torah, rain, un a zind,
azah hailig fulk, mir zenen nispu’el “Mi k’Amcha Yisru’el!”
A great commotion rocks the heavens: the angels are singing Shira.
They Takke understand how people of flesh and bones merited to be chosen by Him!
“The Creator is right! They served Him faithfully, they keep the Torah properly, purely, without sin.
What a holy nation; we are in awe of them! ‘Who is like your nation, Yisroel
I use it over my mouth, to make sure I don’t speak any loshon hora. I got the idea from Dr. Feif, who recommended applying the same standard to shmiras halashon as to shmiras haeinayim (I took it off of my eyes to type this post).
jbaldy22,
Of course, I’m only referring to the reaction which I’ve seen to this point. I’m no navi, and certainly long term follow-up is necessary.
I certainly hope that people who need internet will view the inconvenience of a filter as negligible compared to the danger of remaining without one. I also believe that as more filters become available, they will become less cumbersome.
It’s not that easy for people to make time thrice a day for davening, yet many ehrliche Yidden do so. Hopefully limiting any access to the web to filtered usage will achieve the same status, and be considered a basic component of frum life.
Little Anecdotes of Internet Victims
A businessman relates:
We once encountered a problem with our computers at the office. Everything began going ever so slowly and freezing. I needed to call an internet technician. His diagnosis was that a virus had entered through one computer and infected the entire network. He found the computer that had started it all, which belonged to a certain young man who had been working at the company for many years.
After taking care of the problem, he showed me the history of that computer, which included everything our employee had been up to. It emerged that this employee had been spending hours on countless websites that had no connection to his work duties. And I had only become aware of this after he had been working here for three years! (As an aside, according to the computer technician, the virus had entered the computer through one of the decadent websites.)
The Skeverer Rebbe attended the asifa.
If people had proper yiras shomayim, they would take the proper precautions.
One who doesn’t take appropriate precautions is not a yarei shomayim.
Dear Dr. Feif,
I’ll take your advice on the former, not the ladder.
MP,
Who determines which adults DO have the necessary maturity and responsibility to avoid the pitfalls of the web?
APY,
Possibly, the moderator on duty is scared of copyright issues, although I see no problem since the PDF of the brochure has been made publicly available (I’ve just copied, reformatted, and pasted).
It’s clear to me, from the words of Chaza”l, that a yarei shomayim is supposed to impose gedarim on himself to avoid sin, and not merely rely on his yiras shomayim.
What makes someone a Godol Hador?
Acceptance by the gedolim of the previous dor.
why did you change from Godol to Gedol and back to Godol?
Godol is with a komatz. Gedolim is with a sh’va.
We know that everyone who needs the internet needs ways of protecting
Simchas HaChaim Foundation).
QUESTION
When saying Shema Yisrael, what should you think about?
ANSWER
That is one kavanah [one meditation]
[See also: Sing, You Righteous, para. 470-476.]