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The freezer doesn’t introduce young adults to each other.
“The freezer” as it’s called, is a rule with BMG has that a bochur first joining the yeshiva signs a paper that he will not meet with a prospective shidduch (in other words, date) for a few months. The reason this was instituted was not to change anything about shidduchim, it was so that bochurim will be settled into yeshiva when they start shidduchim, which helps them keep shidduchim from being a bigger distraction from learning than it would be if they started immediately.
Unless you mean that NOW there arent enough left., and I concede that that may be true.
Yes
But even closing the “age gap” wont help the current “older” singles
Unfortunately true
it is about trying to prevent future 34 year olds from being left behind
Right. And if we continue with the same exact shidduch process, where more girls enter the pool of available singles than boys every year, it will repeat itself in 15 years.
True if ALL 23 year olds only married 19 year olds there would be a problem.
Maybe this is the point we differ on. You say that if a small amount(e.g. 5%) would marry at the same age, it would solve the disparity issue. I say it will help, but not solve it. (Also there are those who marry at a bigger age discrepancy than 3-4 years which makes it worse).
Are ALL her classmates married to 38 year olds leaving her no one?
I don’t know, maybe all of her classmates are married, but there are are a bunch of girls from her grade (perhaps from different schools) who aren’t.
That just doesnt describe reality
If the numbers don’t match up, you can’t just pretend they do. Someone recently coined a term for that. It’s called “Shidduch Crisis Denial Syndrome™”.
True but what happened with the 40 year old boys (when they were 26 and she was 20), the 39 year olds? The 38 year olds? 37? 36? What about the 35 year olds? 34?
They’re married.
Those 10 extra are STILL left without a chair, at this point we would have t conclude that it cant just be the age gap keeping them without seats, they must not hear as well, or run as fast or something Just the disparity cannot explain how these 10 are still let standing round after round
It actually could in shidduchim, although in chairs you’d be right to assume there was a specific difficulty getting a seat.
In musical chairs, it doesn’t matter who sits in which chair.
If that were the case in shidduchim, the analogy would work. However, in shidduchim, the new entries, say the 23 year old boys, are unlikely to marry, say, a 34 year old girl. So even if in theory every girl had exactly the same qualities, the very fact that they have been playing musical chairs for a while (in other words, their age), is a prejudice against them. This wouldn’t be the case in actual musical chairs.
And I’m being serious, because I have a feeling we’re talking about two different things.
we just found an explanation that makes much more sense
An explanation for what?
This leads to one of two possibilities (of course a combination is possible)
either
1) the original 10 have all found shiduchim,, and the extra 11.6 are all relative new comers, so ok hopefully they will find their chairs in the next few rounds. No problem, thye arent waiting “forever” some wait longer than others.or
2) Those 10 extra are STILL left without a chair, at this point we would have t conclude that it cant just be the age gap keeping them without seats, they must not hear as well, or run as fast or something Just the disparity cannot explain how these 10 are still let standing round after round1) is only possible if the old timers marry the newcomers. In other words, closing the age gap. So we agree, but the problem is that’s not happening.
2) I don’t follow. There aren’t enough chairs. No matter how fast everyone runs, someone will get to the chairs before others.
As long as the Ribono shel olom keep creating more players and chairs even if they are different numbers. The game will never end .
There is an end game. People don’t stay in shidduch age forever.
It doesn’t make any sense in a changing system.
It does. I’ll illustrate.
At any given moment in time, there are more girls than boys in shidduchim. It changes because some constantly leave and enter, but when the same amount of boys and girls leave, it doesn’t change the disparity, and when more girls than boys enter, it only increases the disparity.
No, it makes sense even in a changing system, although we certainly don’t know who will be stuck without a chair.
Look up “di groise chasuneh” on Mostly Music, and listen to the sample of the first track.
Where do you see resistance? I think I’ve answered (almost?) every point addressed to me, but I don’t see others doing the same.
I always accept Put myself in the perspective of other people’s viewpoints.
So put yourself in the perspective of the people who think there’s no valid perspective which denies the demographic issue.
But I haven’t even seen studies that make enough sense to be called such.
Which part of the equation do you disagree with?
Sickest children in history? Do you know how many fatal childhood illnesses have been eradicated (or made curable) by modern medicine? Would you like to go back to a time when an ear infection or a cough could be fatal?
I imagine he’s quite busy, though.
I don’t have a question regarding that
I think you’re playing semantics
1) Ive seen NASI advertising that they’ve been successful in getting people to marry closer in age, I’m curious whether it has helped (which was their argument)
Well, I answered.
Meanwhile, I don’t think you’ve responded to my point that the disparity would exist even if we did arranged marriages, thereby making The Dating Divide™ irrelevant.
Why can’t ubiquitin be right?
Why can’t he be wrong?
There are flaws in every single vaccine study too. Yet, the evidence strongly points to their being effective and safe.
If we needed to literally be 100% certain about anything, and 99.9% wasn’t good enough, we’d be paralyzed and could never accomplish anything.
Bagleiten?
Preparing for marriage takes a lot longer than 3 months.
If someone has bad midos, immaturity, or messed up priorities, a few classes on marriage isn’t going to do much.
I’m not saying they wouldn’t be useful, but the problem isn’t the freezer, or Lakewood, or not hearing R’ Tatz’ shiur, which I’m sure is wonderful.
It runs much deeper.
BTW, the population is moving to Lakewood, The fact that these therapists moved there isn’t a raya that sholom bayis issues (per capita) are worse there than Brooklyn.
I think you mean last night was Yad BiShvat
Oops, can you please be motzi me on the brocha on the bukser?
in the past 5/10 years has the age gap gotten better? Has the shidduch crises? )
I don’t know why that question is relevant. Maybe you are suggesting that we closed the gap but it didn’t help?
Anyhow, I looked it up. Apparently, trying to close the gap by focusing on the older girls didn’t make much if a dent, because for the most part, the boys are still marrying the younger girls. So now, they’re pushing for younger boys to get married.
My question was:
“where is the hold up in the shidduch crises tM
I don’t see the relevance of that question to the disparity of boys to girls.
Again, (I don’t think you responded to this point) the disparity would still exist if we entirely cut dating out of the process.
“You answered your own question”
I dont see how.
Because you didn’t chap which question I meant…
I’m referring to your musical chairs/island question.
Yes, it’s not a closed island. But if more girls keep entering the island than boys, and the same amount of girls boys leave, the disparity remains and increases.
This will be even more true by next week once the freezer opens.
Tu BiShvat is tonight.
since this thread began more boys started dating.
This will be even more true by next week once the freezer opens.
(Of course more girls started dating too, and perhaps more girls than boys)You answered your own question. I’m not sure why you’re so confused.
There would be a shidduch crisis (perhaps in some ways worse) if we did arranged marriages instead of dating, but exclusively set up 23 year old boys with 19 year old girls.
Dating makes it worse in a way because many seem to take a long time to “find the right one”, but isn’t the cause of the disparity.
Also, can you please stop with the all caps? It’s quite annoying.
Your tobacco analogy has been shlugged up already. I don’t know why you’re rehashing it.
Joseph,Daas Yochid, TryingToStaycalm,
Too bad you have to bash a whole legion of. Jews before Shabbas , and especially before Shabbos Shira..
ZionGate, what did I say that got you riled up?
Doomsday, I’m so sorry about your nephew and the children you work with, but your pain doesn’t excuse your ill-mannered behavior.
Also, the fact that the parents of these autistic children feel they need to blame it in someone instead of accepting it as a g’zeirah min hashomayim doesn’t make their claims true.
I never mentioned a word about age gap.
The OP talks about more girls than boys. The way that’s being addressed (attempted at least) is by reducing age gap.
Maybe you’re in your own thread.
improved networking- especially for OOTers
I believe NASI has put in significant efforts in that regard.
just trying to explain why not everyone is jumping on the age gap wagon- because there need to be other people who are dealing with the other issues. Sometimes when one aspect is pushed with lots of PR it pushes other issues to the side so that people stop thinking about them.
Sorry, that’s just not a good reason to ignore the disparity, or tell people that they they’re demonizing women, they’re in denial about other issues, or that there isn’t a shidduch crisis, etc.
I think you made some good points earlier:
Why does it take so long for some people to find each other? As ubiquitin stated, what part of the process is going wrong? Is the problem in the networking, getting the right names? The actual dating process? The attitude to dating/marriage? For different people, there will be different answers. We need to figure out what goes wrong and how to solve it- better preparation, dating coaching, helping youngsters figure out who they are and what they really need in a spouse before they start dating, improved networking- especially for OOTers and those who wouldn’t be getting redt shidduchim otherwise, maybe making use of databases.
I think dating coaches and databases are good ideas. Especially dating coaches. It seems to me that it’s far too common for singles (especially older singles) to turn down good shidduch prospects for what seems like, from an outsider’s perspective, issues that could be worked on.
Of course, “helping youngsters figure out who they are and what they really need in a spouse before they start dating” is a good idea, although sometimes they need to start dating until they figure it out; the thing is, that’s not specifically a shidduch issue, it’s more of a life issue.
Thr shadchanim for the most part are afraid of any major change which may affect thier wallets snd po pocket.
Closing the age gap won’t decrease the number of shidduchim made; if anything, lowering the typical age at which boys start the process will increase the workload of shadchanim.
But don’t let logic get in the way of a good rant. 😉
and sometimes it feels that those promoting it are ignoring other issues that also need addressing- and these are not side issues.
The age gap theory explains the disparity, not overall numbers.
Age gap proponents haven’t solved world hunger either, but why is that specifically their responsibility?
The two issues are certainly related, but that doesn’t mean they have the same cause and are dealt with the same way.
When I started dating nearly 3 decades ago, the boys also had lists of girls that outnumbered the boys 10:1, there were unmarried older singles, and this was before the population explosion.
There was already enough population growth which would allow age gap to cause a disparity. People were unaware of the age gap explanation, but it was true then too.
The good thing about all this discussion, is that it shows that people care and that singles should not feel ostracized or alone.
This I agree with, and I appreciate the positivity. I have a hard time wrapping my head around the fact that people who are trying to help by identifying and trying to correct a demographic issue are somehow to blame for not necessarily identifying and correcting other issues, and aderaba, are somehow accused of “demonizing” women.
Why won’t you answer a simple question: is Dr. Zimmerman for or against vaccination?
How can I be lying when I am QUOTING Dr. Zimmerman’s
OWN WORDSBecause you omit the part where he says it’s not specifically vaccines, and in fact the diseases people get when they don’t get vaccinated are more likely to be a cause.
Please answer my question: is Dr. Zimmerman for or against vaccines?
Folks, See how 2Cents LIES!
No, I see how you lie.
the 5% are 5% of boys. (I didnt work out the numbers, the point is not all boys are “locked in” marrying only those girls.
Whatever. My point still stands. Both points, in fact.
DY
“For those girls, I guess it does… What about the rest?” they marry boys their age, younger or older. It isn’t a closed system.By definition, the rest don’t marry the same age or younger. Otherwise you would have said a number higher than 5%.
So if as few as 5% of boys marry girls their age or older the theory kind of falls apart.
For those girls, I guess it does… What about the rest?
Also, what if another 5% of boys married girls 6 years apart?For the most part we dont have a shidduch crisis.
If you mean that most people get married, I guess you’re right…
Gotta check it out.
From what I’ve seen, in the U.S. there are about 2% more boys born than girls, and girls survive childhood illnesses at a higher rate than boys, so the discrepancy is slightly less when they reach the age for shidduchim.
Do you have a different observation?
efforts to further demonize single frum women.
What on Earth are you talking about?
Are you allowing for people to have other views of what the problem is
Do you mean the problem, or the cause of the problem?
There can be multiple problems, and multiple causes of any or all of the problems.
Is Dr. Zimmerman currently pro-vax or anti-vax?
Blockquotes look horrible no matter how you use them.
Right, Avram in MD?
Was Dovid Hamelech Heimishe minded?
it shall be permissible for a school bus owned, used or hired by a public or
nonpublic school to park at any time, including overnight, upon any street or roadwayThen it qualifies that it’s not really any street or roadway.