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That is why it takes a kid to observe that the solution is technically simple – everyone stays by themselves for 2 weeks …
That’s not how you said the kid stated it.
@☕️DaasYochid☕️, @🍫Syag-Lchochma, now that we’re done, any ideas for a new thread?
Can we talk about hand sanitizer?
Some simple ideas, tell me whether you are doing them or are they high maintenance?
Ok– open windows in shul and school
Not if it’s cold outside. Was never my decision anyhow.
– not flying for vacation
I hardly do that anyway, but is flying for business safer? Why do you ask about vacation?
– ordering delivery from the store instead of going there
I did that in the beginning.
– learning with your child for one day a week, or forming a small group with neighbors, instead of sending to a crowded school
No, no, chas v’shalom except when the yeshivos were closed or we were in quarantine.
– going one time less to shul,
Unfortunately, didn’t go to shul for months when they were closed, but after they opened, no
or not talking there,
Good idea anyhow. When it was okay to talk, stayed six feet away from people who were unmasked and hadn’t had Covid
or not staying for kiddush
Yes, I didn’t go to kiddushim except to say a brief mazel tov.
And most flu deaths.
Unless I am mistaken, masking stopped the flu almost entirely.That, and serious reduction in international travel
Technically, it would take longer. Unless individuals in the home would isolate from each other as well.
As a kid put it nicely “if the whole world would stay home for 2 weeks, COVID will be gone”.
We kind of tried that…
So, until the time rates start going down, personal benefit from the vaccine will have counter-balanced by increase in propagation if the vaccinated will become significantly less cautious.
But the vaccinated are so unlikely to spread it that it’s hard to believe vaccination won’t significantly reduce the spread even if it changes behavior.
Can someone please explain to me why we don’t know if the vaccine reduces spreading?
How can someone spread covid if they don’t get it? Even if someone gets a milder case of covid than they would have had they not been vaccinated (because the vaccine still reduces the virus in the small minority who will still get infected) they still should be spreading it less than if they had a worse case (although I guess you could argue if they are sick at home they will expose fewer people…).
Baba Vanga
Related to Baba Maaseh?
I have no idea what you are trying to say
Syag, must be.
To add to UJM, and was pretty much the foundation for Torah in America.
Also, what was needed in the 40’s was not the same thing as is needed in the 2020s.
So while one can argue that what BMG offered in it’s first couple of decades, it no longer offers, it is still a hugely successful yeshiva, and it’s hard to fathom how someone can refer to it as a failure.
AAQ, that was before the Verrazzano.
The NYT doesn’t frequently lie outright. They do get caught every now and then.
Their dishonesty is primarily in how they present the stories, with obvious liberal and anti-Israel bias, and in which stories they choose to publish or not.
They have Hakoras Hatov for the things he has done for the jews specifically.
Also true.
All in all, the OP makes a very weak point.
It was never about Trump. It was about the Senate.
That’s probably why the two seats in Georgia went to Democrats – because it’s hard to not vote for someone who you know will deliver $1400 per family member to you.
The GOP voted on principle, because you can’t keep giving away endless $. That cost them the Senate.
I won’t be giving back the money they send me, but I really don’t know that the stimulus giveaway is a good move in the long run.
Trump was in favor of the $2000 stimulus payment
17 states had higher nursing home death rates but only Cuomo gets attacked.
If anyone else forced nursing homes to accept Covid patients, they should also be attacked. Especially if they had better options, which Cuomo did – the USS Comfort and the Javits Center.
Also, where do you get your numbers? Are they from before or after the coverup was exposed and the NYS numbers jumped?
The numbers I saw had NYS at #17 before the numbers were adjusted. From the NANHA website.
These charges need to be investigated. He’s an arrogant jerk, so certainly made enemies, so you can’t take someone’s word for it without evidence (that would actually be true even if he wasn’t an arrogant jerk.)
It seems though that there’s already enough evidence to remove him for the nursing home cover up, and even his admitted interactions with women are specifically considered harassment in the prevention videos which are mandatory viewing.
I don’t get why he’s still around.
MAGA!
(Make Andrew Go Away!)
if you have 90% of people who were sick, you were doing something wrong.
If you think that way, you are doing something wrong.
Biggest motivation would be thinking that their community will be severely damaged by lack of shuls, schools, all institutions they spent years building.
I guess you are oblivious to the tremendous damage which was done by locking down.
I think torahvaluesoverparty makes some good points which have not adequately been answered.
I have heard of several cases of people receiving HCQ and zinc and having quick recoveries. I’m not a medical professional, but my physician told me that the studies absolutely did not disprove HCQ’s efficacy.
(Still, anyone using the availability of HCQ or Ivermectin as an excuse to not vaccinate is just scared of the vaccine.)
At this point in time, I think the treatment of choice for a newly diagnosed case of Covid-19 is the monoclonal antibodies infusion, but I do think there’s reason to believe that HCQ if given properly could have saved many lives.
Yserbius, I think claiming all these rabbonim are being fed, and accepting, false information is basically calling them incompetent.
I think it’s beyond naive to think they are unaware of CDC guidelines.
I am not “against” wearing masks, I just think when you have a shul where 90% of the people have had Covid, and the other 10% are spread out, and the people who are still scared to come to shul have access to masked minyanim, there’s no chiyuv to wear a mask in shul. When there’s no chiyuv to do something, people generally don’t do it when it’s very annoying and uncomfortable and shters them.
Anecdotally, it definitely does not seem that Covid has been spreading in the shuls I am aware of that do this.
We have quarantined when a family member has Covid, with the exception of members who has tested positive for antibodies (after medical consultation).
I think people who don’t have antibodies should not attend large simchos in the normal way.
I am in favor of testing when there are symptoms.
Any other questions?
I have observed multiple respected rabbonim not wearing masks in shul. There are frequently a few people wearing masks, and I doubt the rav has a problem with it. I would be shocked if he did.
Kids are getting destroyed by staying home from school. You can wear two masks or more if you want, I don’t care, but please do not keep your kids home from school, I beg of you.
The Mishna Berurah in Hilchos Lulav says that being machmir on various stringent shittos is hidur mitzvah.
Perhaps that would extend to the shiur of k’zayis for eating matzah.
Interesting thought. Certainly should at least go into Oneg/Simchas Yom Tov.
did you hear this first hand?
Have seen first hand. Maaseh Rav
I don’t understand the rest of your post.
When did it become controversial to say that my Rabbonim are correct and other Rabbonim are not?
That’s not what you’re saying. You are saying they are not only incorrect, they are incompetent fools who are taking a position with absolutely no logic or reasoning behind it, and are pro death.
Were you not disappointed two years ago when several Rabbonim were fooled by fake news and started saying that vaccines are dangerous?
Confused, not “disappointed”. I’m not that arrogant. And that’s a small minority. In this case it’s not. So you are the one who needs to rethink your position. Not to change what you do, or even your opinion, but to realize that there is another side here, one which doesn’t see mandated mask wearing as merely uncomfortable.
I can’t find any flaws with that logic
Except that throughout the generations, rabbonim and poskim have always trusted information from people they deemed reliable, and many gedolim, not just R Elyashiv, paskened past 80.
You are for some odd reason assuming that all of the rabbonim who don’t mandate or wear masks haven’t read CDC guidelines. That’s wrong. There’s no lack of knowledge of the metzius here, as I have explained.
No Rav or Rebbetzin would say that the halachos could be ignored if it’s too hot out. So the same with masks. Uncomfortable, but important.
It’s starting you right in the face and you missed it! These rabbonim are paskening that there is no chiyuv to wear a mask! They include some of the biggest poskim (certainly in Eretz Yisroel). No, they are not missing information or being fed misinformation. They just don’t agree with you.
Whatever the reason, the reality is that different bakeries’ matzos taste very different from each other.
One of the local (tri-state area) bakeries has been charging an exorbitant amount for their matzos the last few years. There are obviously enough people who are willing to and able to pay a huge premium for matzos they like better.
For someone who can’t afford it, I believe you can get hand matzos with reliable hechsher for $15 per lb. and under in Costco and Bingo.
Heck, I hate them, they are annoying and bothersome.
Wow, you admit to that now.
Maybe one day you’ll admit that maybe, just maybe, you’re not really smarter than all of the talmidei chachomim (and it’s not just one or two) who haven’t mandated masks in their yeshivos/shuls/kehillos. Maybe you’ll admit that it’s arrogant and stupid to think that they totally messed up.
It’s one thing when a couple of talmidei chachomim go against the overwhelming majority. I still think rather than being “disappointed” (what an arrogant, condescending term!) you should be at most confused.
But when several gedolei hador, and many, many responsible, wise, and caring leaders don’t insist on masks for their kehilos, you should admit that perhaps you are missing part of the equation. Which you clearly are.
Pro-death I started saying that on this thread to provoke a reaction and it seems to have worked.
The reaction you got is that you lost any shred of credibility you may have had.
BTW, you should look up the definition of opinion vs. fact. You have it all wrong. Just because you feel strongly that something is true does not make it fact.
Please address my points. Namely this one: MASKS WORK, EVERYONE SHOULD WEAR THEM WHEN AROUND OTHER PEOPLE. THE NEGATIVE EFFECTS OF MASK WEARING PALE IN COMPARISON TO THE ADVANTAGES THEY BRING IN PROTECTED PEOPLE FROM COVID-19
I would definitely agree that if two people who haven’t had Covid are face to face with each other, it would be safer for them to wear masks. I don’t believe it’s been scientifically proven, but it is mistaver.
There’s a broader issue that you dismiss too easily, whether forcing to people to wear masks for long periods of time is really so insignificant as you suggest it is. I’m not going to bother trying to convince you that it’s emotionally unhealthy for someone to be forced to do something which they abhor (whether it’s physically or psychologically uncomfortable is irelevant) for long stretches of time, because you have demonstrated an inability to hear anything outside of your own personal experience. You are apparently not that uncomfortable in a mask, and that’s fine, but you are not the only person in the world.
A certain rabbi wrote an article lamenting that many of his younger members have not come back to shul after the initial lockdown ended (I found it ironic since during the lockdown, he publicly, although without naming him, lambasted a different rav who kept his shul open on a limited basis). I’m told many of those people (not specifically in his shul) have suffered tremendous decline in their frumkeit. Going to shul isn’t just to accomplish a technical din of tefillah b’tzibur; it is immensely important socially, and for many people, it’s a tremendous connection to frumkeit.
Hearing from many people how much they hate masks (again – physical or psychological doesn’t matter), I definitely feel that when all of the minyanim insist on masks, many people simply won’t come. And the casualty isn’t just tefilah b’tzibur, it’s their whole yiddishkeit.
I’m all in favor of mask only minyanim for those who want them or need them from a safety perspective. But not having mask optional minyanim has a huge, not small, downside, despite your dismissal.
Our communities, as well as society at large, have suffered tremendously over the past year. A big part of that has been the people we lost r”l and the people who got sick and still haven’t fully recovered. But there’s also a different “pandemic” which is only beginning to be addressed, and that is the emotional, and for us equally important, spiritual decline many, many people have suffered.
When multiple rabbonim who I respect, and have respected for many years, do not insist on masks in their shuls, and in fact don’t wear them themselves (at least the ones who already had Covid), I will not accept as anything less than complete insanity the notion that they are all “pro-death”. I believe the explanation is as I said, that they believe the downside of insisting on masks is worse than the safety risks.
There are also rabbonim for whom I have immense respect who do insist on masks, and that’s fine too. Unlike you, I will not accuse them of being “pro ODT” or “anti emotional health”. I understand that in a very difficult situation, they prioritize physical safety. You should have the same respect for rabbonim who have assessed and for their kehilos prioritized the other, non physical downside, and not mandated masks.
I’m not trying to convince you to take your mask off, just (probably hopelessly) trying to show you that there are intelligent, responsible, and caring Torah leaders who don’t believe we should all be wearing masks in all of the situations you do, with legitimate reasons.
(I post this knowing the risk that you will completely distort my words, perhaps claiming that I said that if someone wears a mask in shul, they will instantly turn insane and/or frei. I hope that’s not the case, but rather that you will begin to hear that those who disagree with aren’t therefore evil.)
And although you are offensive, I was focusing on your dishonesty which is still true even if nobody is offended, or if offending people is okay for you.
Ever heard of being banned and removed from your flight from your seat on the plane without any names or announcement needed?
Has that ever happened to you?
Correction: I was mistaken
As I said, some of your lies may have been unintentional, but then again, it is not easy to take your word for it when some are so blatant.
I really don’t have time or much interest in posting all of the black and white proof against your denials, but let’s just say it’s pretty pathetic how you keep denying what you wrote when it’s right there on the CR
You and @syag-lchochma have yet to even begin commenting on that.
Oh boy, another lie. You just don’t stop.
“Let’s get this straight: Wearing a mask is not a big deal. It doesn’t restrict oxygen, nor increase CO2 levels. It doesn’t make it hard for people to hear you, ”
https://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/anti-face-mask-ywncr/page/2#post-1928850
I don’t believe I said that.
It’s not an emunah shailah.
If I were like you, I would stop the conversation and scream LIAR LIAR PANTS ON FIRE.
At yourself?
He’s making the point that a large amount of the Democrat’s agenda should be enough to stop any Torah jew from voting Democrat.
You can’t make that point in a vacuum. You need to take a broader look at the entirety of the candidates and platforms.
Those are factors, but do not necessarily make voting for a Democrat a non starter.
This is a bunch of baloney.
When you vote for a candidate, you vote for the person who you think will carry out his/her job in the way you think is best among the candidates.
It in no way means you agree with everything they believe in or support.
If it did, you couldn’t vote for anyone.
You are making the same silly argument Charlie Hall makes when saying voting for Trump means you think he’s from the 36 tzaddikim. You’re just on the other side of the aisle.
Maybe “koran” should be spelled “coron”
But off of the top of my head: (some may have been unintentional; I’m not a mind reader)
You lied about the veracity, details, implications, and context of the incident I witnessed
You lied about masks being comfortable
You lied about masks not impeding communication
You lied about the original disinformation anmbout masks being just one Tweet
And your most egregious and offensive one is calling people who have a different opinion than yours pro death.
You want a comprehensive list? That will take some time.
“Seriously people- STOP BUYING MASKS!”
They are NOT effective in preventing general public from catching #Coronavirus, but if healthcare providers can’t get them to care for sick patients, it puts them and our communities at risk!”
Happy anniversary to this tweet.
And no, Yserbius, this was not the only anti mask message.
