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smartcookie,I LOVE your post 🙂
“I am frum not because i was raised that way! frumkeit to me something special, something beautiful and not forced down my throat! its something i want”
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In order to know what do you want, you need to know what exist, how it looks like, why it is so special. One knows all this, because he saw it in his parents home (FFB), another – because he saw this in his neighbor’s house (BT)
You can find information on Google
If the same Tzedaka organization will send a plain advertisement, will we give less money? My understanding – it was not a question if organization need advertisement, but why advertisement need to be so expensive? After cutting the check we put in a garbage every add – the most expensive one and very plain
“I’m not sure how familiar you are w maturing females/males. At 15 girls are often taller than boys, girls are usually nearing the end of their maturation process (keeping it Kosher) and boys are usually just starting. (Oh, another reason why this is a really bad idea)”
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Sacrilege,
I’m somehow familiar with the subject – my son is 36 and my daughter is 31 ( both B’H married and with kids), also I learned physiology. Boys who have short father, most likely will be short at age 15 and still be short at age 50. A lot of girls still grow till 17-18 and some till 20. You are right, the time difference in “maturation process” is another reason why this is not a good idea. Also, to be physiologically mature and psychologically ready to take responsibilities upon yourself are not the same. To have a family IS responsibility for BOTH party.
dunno,
I’m not sure how man gray heir relates to his height.
Also “old” is not equal “older”.
Re-read the posts you comment.
Sacrilege, this is your post from another thread:
“Very important. I am tall for a girl (and apparently for most Jewish males) and I dont feel comfortable dating someone shorter than me.”
So, if you will be married at age 15 and by age 20 suddenly found out, that you became taller than your husband (yes, 15 yo people still grow), will you divorce him?
Marriageable age, it is age, when people mature enough to take care not only of themselves, but also of their spouse and children. I can imagine, that 17 years old boy would like to learn full time. Now, what kind of job can have 15 years old girl to support her husband and herself, if she did not graduate from high school, does not have any skills/profession? Can 15 years old girl make enough money to pay for rent, health insurance, food, clothes? Even if she will find some kind of job (babysitting?), can you imagine 15 year old “woman” working + taking care of her house, spouse and kid, making weekly shopping on her feet and carry all bags in her hands (she can’t drive at age 15 even if she is mature). Yes, 15 years old girl knows how to cook, how to clean up the house and make laundry. She can babysit. But does it mean she is physically and mentally ready to do this in a regular basis day after day?
Why do not make a smaller size challah and have an extra one in case guests will show up?
To World Saver
“Rav Shach said you don’t even have to say Shkoiyach because you are giving him more than he gave you!”
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I giving my money not for “Shkoiyach”
What make you think my grandchildren’s learning is less important?
What make you think paying for Yeshiva is not supporting Torah?
What make you think Kollel man has priority over my grandchildren?
When I was young I was working 20 hours a day during number of years to support my family.
Today I’m not young any more, but I still keep 2 jobs and I believe I have rights to make my own decision how to allocate my Tzedakah. At least I did not learn yet, that I obligated to give to particular Torah institution.
Baruch Dayan HaEmes
Cedarhurst, I did not say never gave money to Kollel. I said I do not give money to Kollel. I stop doing this after I have a chance to meet Kollel families. My son-in-law has a full time job to support his large family and learning at night. It was his choice – to have a family and to support it. Kollel men choose to learn full time, to have family and to be supported. If the girl was agree to marry a man, who will learn full time, she is the one who made an agreement to support him.
I believe, I support Torah by paying a part of my grandchildren’s tuition after I give 10% to support orphans, sick and needy people.
“What are your work hours? How many days a week?”
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Kollel men choose his life. I did not choose – was put in situation, when I had to raise my children alone. I was working 20 hours a day 6 days a week for many years. I was working at work and then I was working from home at night, when my kids were sleeping. I’m keeping one full and one part time jobs even now, to be able to support who I think is important to support. If person is mature enough to be married and have children, he need to be mature enough to support his family
“I think G-d has enough money in his bank account to work it out”
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So, why letters from different kollels coming to MY home? I’m not G-d. No one person supported me from the day I graduated from high school. I work very hard and give more than 10 % of my income to poor, sick and old people, to orphans, I helping to pay my grands yeshiva tuition, but I do not support kollel men. I totally agree with SJSinNYC.
Just try to understand. If EVERY man (from 3 yo till 120) will sit and learn all day, what from money will come to buy a pair of pants to go to school?
“tomatoes are fruits” – in China people eat tomatoes as a dessert
real brisker – I also did not learn enough Gemorah.
But if companies reimburse their employees for tips they paid to taxi driver / waiter / person, who took luggage or made pizza delivery to the room etc., don’t you think it means that to tip for service is a word-wide custom?
And customs of our fathers……..
See Box 1 in your W-2 form. It says: ” Wages, tips, other compensation”
If person suppose to show his/her tips, when files income tax return, it must be legitimate to receive it.
In some restaurants they include waiter’s tips in a bill. Other places just put in writing suggested %% for tips.
Some owners pay delivery boy cash (less than minimum legitimate wages) and tips are actually what they working for.
18 years ago, when I came to USA, I received from Jewish Community Services a brochure “Welcome to America”.
One paragraph was about tips – who we suppose to give (waiter, delivery boy, taxi driver, barber…) and how much, who we should not give ( UPS driver, clerk in governmental office…).
So, I assume it is nothing new for someone, who was born in America.
“is middos > learning style in a marriage?”
Rebbetzen Kamenetzki (wife of R. Shmuel Kamenetzki) said in marriage middos have priority over learning style, because you choosing not a chavrusa, but a life partner and a father for your children
So wrong – “Bread salt and water while learning all day”
It is kollel on the street where I live. Every man, who learning all day in this kollel, has a cell phone, a car, lives in a nice apartment, pays for a kindergarten / school for his kids. It cost much more than bread, salt and water.
By the way, do know how much cost water? People use it not only for drinking – you and all your family use toilet not once a day, wash clothes, take a shower and so on.
I understand the girl, who married to kollel man – she made her choice, but did you ask your children if they want to live on only bread, salt and water. Do they entitled to have an apple or orange? What about diapers?
I did not hear that wording in K’tuba were changed. I believe a man suppose to support his family.
And I have a news for you. Some day, with Hashem’s help, your little girl become a kallah and YOU will be the shver, who should support her husband all HIS life. Will you able to do this? How can somebody, who learning all days of his life, to support his son-in-law, while continue supporting his own family? What if you will have 5 daughters? Are you really expect people to support you and all your future generations forever? Kollel is a place for a real talmid chacham. And real talmid chacham respects people, who give him an apportunity to learn all day.
PS. If remember correctly, Rambam was a doctor.
“I mean i understand if someone offers you a treat you’d say thanks but there are some things expected of people which do not deserve any thanks and holding a door is one of them it’s no big deal”
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Do you ever hold a door for somebody?
I use cc because it is convinient – no need to have cash on me. I know how much I can spend a month and I pay every month a full amount. So, I never pay any interest for using cc. If person can’t be organized, can’t stop him/herself from impulsive purchases, they should stay away from cc.
Every time, when my daughter having a new baby, she and her husband ask me or his parents (depend of who’s family turn) if we have any wish (not a suggestion!) regarding the name. It does not mean they always follow our wish. They make own decision, but they always give name after someone from our families. It is parents right to name a child, but I like the fact that my father, a”h, had his grandfather’s name and now my grandson has this name.
Today, about 2 am, I tried to add my close relative name to Yeshiva World’s Tehilim List and got the folloving message: “Your information has been sent. Once approved it will be listed on the Tehillim Page”
My question is – who and WHAT should approve? The person is in a hospital…
Ok. Here is part of the truth. People think that:
A. Many BT’s are weird. A little off.
B. If you are a changing person, how is anyone to know how set you are in what you are doing now.
C. Some BT’s seem to be living in a different sort of world, where ideals replace realities. This is closely connected to A.”
Very true statement. Just to add a few comments.
When I was grow up, the only religious person I knew was my grandfather. By observing his way of life, I got an opinion, that religious people are SPECIAL people. Unfortunately, I still live with this opinion till today. And when in real life I see some ffb people, who not very honest in business dealing, not follow all, what they learn in yeshiva / kollel, it cause me almost a physical pain. Yes, I may look in your eyes weird, but did some ffb ever try to look on yourself by my eyes, when they cheat me in a store, telling offensive jokes about BT at the Shabbos table? If you try to emulate Avraham Aviny by doing kiruv, maybe (just maybe) you need to try to emulate his other midos as well.
Being BT myself and a mother of married BT daughter, I can’t see why BT should be so desperate to be married to FFB.
AishesChayil-in-Training – why you mentioned, that no one can tell you are BT? Is it because YOU feel it is something wrong to be BT? If you live your life as a Torah Jew why you are not looking for another Torah Jew, why your are looking for labels?
“In Chareidi schools, even anyone paying “full” price, is being subsidized. ”
Do you mean “government” paid from their personal check books? Don’t you think this subsidized money coming from taxes every working person pay?
My daughter became BT when she was 12 yo and I followed her. B”H she is married and have large family. Most of our relatives (including my daughter’s in-law) sencirely believe
that me, my daughter and son-in-law are crazy, because we are observant. And, of course, most of our relatives feel very sorry for my grandchildren, who have crazy parents and grandmother. Most of our relatives do not communicate with us, do not participate in our simchas (last simcha I so my relatives was my daughter’s wedding – relatives came out of curiosity), I’m only one who buy raffle tickets from my grands yeshivah, I’m the only one who help to pay tuition. This list can go on and on. But I think we are very lucky. If on a top of the situation we have my daughter was married to FFB and her in-law were treaded her as second quality person, it will be even worse.