Curiosity

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Black hat wb- the mahalach of Slabodka was to have kavod habriyos and appreciate that people were created btzelem Elokim. That doesn’t translate into having everyone look, dress, act, and speak in an identical fashion. There is no one mahalach for looking dignified. You can look dignified in a tuxedo if you are at a high class event, you can do look dignified in slacks and an ironed button down shirt if you are an engineer at work, or you can look dignified in your combat uniform if you are a soldier. White shirt, black pants, and no chup haircut is just what the frum world recognizes to be a dignified look for those who have no particular alternative dress code, but nobody ever said there is anything inherently dignified about the way frum ppl dress. If they lived a couple hundred years ago they would look foolish, and so would Moshe Rabeinu if he appeared today. To say someone doesn’t fit with Slabodka because he wears a certain color or parts his hair a certain way is plain old ignorance.

reggirl – Apologies; I just noticed your reply. Maybe it works better for me because I’m exactly what you described, but I seem to be getting good suggestions with it – even real dates. If you were a paying member, did you try switching up your shadchanim? I have several friends who are similar to me; nice, normal, frum boys who are going/have been to college. Maybe you should look at “out of towners” if you haven’t already?

I think if you like her, and are willing to do what she wants in practice then you should go for it. Your kids will end up getting most of their hashkafas from their yeshivahs and rabbeim anyway. Also, people change; after you have kids you may feel differently. Definitely ask a rav, or a frum relationship counselor before making a commitment.

…actually, more_2, she is. And she’s smarter than you!

You are very welcome 🙂

T613, they didn’t use the 7 branched Menorah to commemorate Chanukah. The Menorah was lit fully, each day, as a separate service of the Kohanim, and it has nothing to do with Chanukah. If there was any need to light a “Chanukiah” (8 branched menorah) in the BHM for Chanukah, like we do at shul, they would not have used the seven branched golden Menorah.

T613 I THINK WE SPOKE!!! Check your gmail…

Ok T613, we gotta figure out a way to ask the mods to let us exchange shid resumes… maybe one of us should create a temporary email address and post it on here with the mods’ consent. Whaddya think?

Sabzi, that is a great point. I don’t see how you can ever, ever, EVER say a short skirt is more taznua than a long skirt. If we lived in a society where people wore no clothing, would you say a bas Yisrael shouldn’t wear clothing because it would call attention to her? Clearly not. How can revealing more, be more tzanua?… Boggles my mind…. and I’m not even arguing the fact that there are plenty of goyim and Jews alike that sport ankle length skirts/dresses. I personally think it’s just an excuse made by women who prefer showing more skin.

Saw you at sinai. … .com

I never understood why it is acceptable for women to walk around all day with their calves showing, (sometimes even exposing their knees when they sit), but frum guys will almost NEVER walk around in shorts! Isn’t tzniyus supposed to be MORE critical for women than for men? If you ask my opinion, I think ankle length skirts are the way to go, as long as they aren’t tight or dragging on the floor.

Just as a correction, I checked with my source-it was r’ Reuven Feinstein, not R’ Dovid Feinstein who said this.

That’s true, but close to my point. Rav Feinstein obviously does not condone the fact that people in shidduchim refuse to mingle for the sake of shidduchim. It sounds like he holds it is proper hishtadlus to go out of your way and mingle with a member of the opposite gender for the sake of finding your zivug. I wouldn’t pasken from a story you heard third hand over the internet, but people should definitely ask their LORs.

I also personally heard from a close talmid of Rav H. Leibowitz ZTZ”L that one time a certain Rav said girls should be “understanding” when dating yeshivah guys because they have no experience talking to girls due to spending the large chunk of their lives in front of a gemara in yeshiva. R’ Leibowitz was adamently against this statement and said a guy who claims this excuse about himself is lacking in his mussar and middos. If you learned mussar properly in yeshiva you should have no trouble talking to a girl like a mentch.

A wise man told me the 15 minute rule… when you come home after a long day and are tired and in no mood to have a conversation, push through it and give your wife about that long to hear how her day was. After around 15 minute she’ll realize that you actually care, and she will stop talking. Just pretend your day isn’t over until 15-20 minutes after you come home, and don’t walk into the house with the perception that you are done for the day. She doesn’t REALLY need to tell you about her day, she just needs to feel like you care, which you obviously do, but guys simply don’t view this one action as such an important thing like girls do, and so neglect it too often. Give her the attention she needs and deserves, and then you can go relax.

I have an interesting story for those of us in shidduchim… My friend studied in MTJ (Rabbi Feinstein’s yeshiva).

Once, my friend attended a wedding with R’ Dovid Feinstein and he noticed that there were two lines of people waiting to get brachas from the Rav. One was of boys and the other was of girls, and both were asking for brachas in shidduchim. R’ Feinstein turned to him and said something along the lines of, ‘I don’t understand why they are all coming to me for a bracha. There is a line of boys and a line of girls… Why don’t they just socialize and get to know each other?’

His point seemed to be that today, people are so concerned with the frum velt’s formalities in shidduchim that they fail to realize that it’s perfectly permissible to circumvent the superficial establishment and do it in a more “natural” way. I am put off by people who think that it’s somehow a lack of tzniyus for a boy to approach a girl he is interested in getting to know to ask her out on a date. If it’s good enough for R’ Feinstein, it’s good enough for me. I’m not saying shadchanim aren’t worthwhile. It’s nice to not have to reject someone to their face, but if you need to get married you don’t necessarily have to go through all the bureaucratic channels.

Hi snowbunny (cute name),

Im not an expert in this sugya, but from what I understand R’ Moshe was posek the way that he did BECAUSE of the stuff you listed in #3. Also, we still need OU-D, because when you live in a place where there is no chalav Yisrael (or if it is outrageously expensive), then you are allowed to eat chalav stam. Not only that, but if you are noheg to eat chalav stam in your town where chalav Yisrael is hard to come by, and you travel to New York, for example, where CY is readily available, you are still permitted to eat chalav stam.

Feel free to correct any misinformation I may have, anyone.

Hockeyfan… BOTH! obviously! No joke… I’ve seen some girls’ resumes say they want a full time learner who can go out and work when necessary. In this economy!? Are you joking!? Who is going to hire him with no college degree, no expertise, and no prior work experience? Pick one or the other ladies! You can’t have both.

Busted.. red handed!!!

I agree with hockey_fan. I’m in a similar position, but even more difficult because I live way OOT, and I would have to fly in for every date. It is an objectively STUPID move to spend hundreds or even thousands of dollars on travel to go on a blind first date with a person who you may find physically unattractive. There are never any guarantees, but for many people – particularly ones in my position – it is best to clear up whatever factors one can, before committing to fly in for a first date. Assuming that every guy that wants to see a picture is doing so for ulterior or even malicious reasons is overly judgmental and is not giving any benefit of the doubt.

Lol @ loca… Being cynical ALWAYS helps in situations of impending doom! 😉

dhl, you have been here way too long to NOT realize that Popa is being facetious.

I’m also a 20-something year old guy who lives OOT. I got into the parsha about a month ago, but haven’t gotten a date yet because no girls want to fly out of town, and I haven’t yet had the chance to fly out either. I get the impression there are too many girls out there waiting for a prince on a flying horse to swoop in and carry them into the sunset. There are tons of good, normal, personable guys in OOT places that don’t have ppl to date. All the OOT girls freak out b/c of the shidduch crisis so they get shipped out to the edge of the earth for a date with any scarecrow. Meanwhile the OOT guys get stuck with nothing. But maybe I’m just being a cynic.

Oomis – I would presume somebody who gets divorced over trivial reasons is far riskier to marry than someone who divorces over a reason that’s serious. There are never any guarantees, but it appears to me a sign of a lack of commitment or of immature expectations of marriage if someone divorces for silly reasons. Of course I mean when the “serious reason” was not effected by the person in question, but by the ex-spouse.

If she doesn’t have kids, and if it’s a scenario wherein which it’s clear the divorce wasn’t her fault, like if her ex was crazy/abusive… People often grow from these experiences, not get worse. I feel like a divorcee in these cases has a certain maturity and realistic expectations for a marriage that newly single people don’t. On the other hand, it’s nice to know ur on an equal learning curve as ur never-married spouse – experiencing marriage for the first time together with no previous benchmarks to match. But I’m not talking from any experience, this is all conjecture.

Well,you don’t refer to vacancy of animals as “no one around,” so there might be a moose, hawk, or squirrel there who heard the tree fall. Then the answer would be yes.