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Anon, I would argue exactly the opposite. A street fight is never fair, and you can assume that a self defense situation involves fending off a bigger and stronger opponent. Often times women are targets of attacking males. That’s why learning how to subdue and disable the threat quickly and directly, regardless of being at a physical disadvantage, is of key importance. More traditional styles such as Kung Fu and Wing Chun fail to provide the disciples with the easiest tools available to defend oneself, and instead respect the far-Eastern mantra of honorable, fair fighting. In Krav Maga we learn that if you find yourself in a fair fight, you’ve already made a big mistake.
anon. I’m not going to start a debate over martial arts because inevitably people will be locked into their own pre-existing opinion, but why do you think Wing Chun would be better suited for self defense than krav maga? Let me remind you that many military and law enforcement agencies around the world have chosen variants of the Israeli krav maga as the most effective and efficient style for its enlisted. This means that anyone who argues that a different style is more effective in an unrestricted hand-to-hand encounter is arguing against the professional opinion of battle hardened combat specialists and defense consultants.
Popa, I, for one, got a kick out of your leitzonus. Keep up the wonderful work. It’s nice when you bring up a touchy hashkafic subject such as this. When you come out and step on toes we get to see who winces.
The truth is… Almost everyone here including you, Shopping613…. we are all just different sides of my severe alternate personality disorder. 😀 Your subconscious even admitted it to your Shopping613 persona…. read your first several words…. “out of curiosity”…. we are all out of Curiosity….
O.O
I’ve been doing it for about two years, and I can tell you Krav Maga definitely involves no board breaking, at all. It was probably just advertising shtick.
Maybe if all girls weren’t so crazy, more of them would be married. Nine out of ten single men agree: Girls be cray.
JF02 – I and many of my male friends have shidduch resumes. Also, I personally have been suggested to girls many times before they were suggested to me, and B’H, I’m not even the slightest bit an outstanding situation. As for your third example, that has absolutely nothing to do with dating.
DY – Girls can insist on that too if they wanted.
This just never happens with bacon sandwiches, but remember, it’s a special kaparah that we Jews get the privilege of having.
Depends how busy that store is.
Oh no. You’re right! How could I ever think to argue with somebody who is an expert in fluid dynamics and equine anatomy?! All this time in yeshiva, and I still can’t read a single mefaresh properly! It’s not even like I memorized Nach, so I’m basically just a waste of flesh and bone. I’ll go jump off the nearest bridge now because there’s no point for me to live any more. If I had cookies, jmh, I would for sure give you all of them!! 😀
Sam2, I guess it would depend who you view the purpose of acting refined is for. Some people may not give a second look if a chashuv ben Torah is or not wearing his hat outside, especially in “out of town” type places, but that doesn’t make it okay for a chashuv ben Torah to do. I think it’s an issue of how much appreciation the ben Torah has for his own dignity, rather than caring about how other people view his dignity. Meaning, let’s say theoretically you granted that it was beneath his dignity to drink directly from a fountain; I presume you would not say that if he went to visit a third world country where it was an acceptable norm that he should therefore be lax on his own personal standards. I, for one, cannot picture the Queen of England or even the Pope drinking from a water fountain.
Jmh,
1) The slight to one’s kavod that I alluded to would be with drinking while bent, not bending down on its own. As I said in my very first statement, “it’s undignified to bend over and drink like a horse from a trough.”
2) I know you aren’t expecting to shlug up the Mahari Kra (I believe he is the father of the Rada”k) with your personal kashas, almost all of which I can personally already think of terutzim for.
3) Nowhere in the other mefarshim did I find it mention that the ones “lapping” where bent, hunched, or laying down. On the contrary, it sounded like they say farkert.
4) It matters not if even one mefaresh says like me, and a hundred are to the contrary. You can no longer use that posuk as a raya against what I (think I) heard my rebbi say. That’s besides the comment I made to Sam2 of why it’s not a raya either way.
ubiq, I read posuk 5. I don’t see the words “laying down” anywhere, however, according to the Maharo Kra, there are three types : Those who did kriya to drink -posul, those who were melakek like a dog – also posul, and those who were melakek beyadam el pihem (posuk 6) – only these were the kosher ones. Perhaps the Mahari Kra’s second category referred to laying down, but he describes them as posul. Please read posuk 6 that says “lapping with their hands to their mouths,” and read the Mahari Kra on paukim 5 and 6 – It’s explicitly not like you. Also, please read Rashi on the words Melakekim Beyadam, “Ein ze derech kriah, kelokek bilshono.” Ie: not like a dog.
Sam2, you’re correct to take a different approach because the pasuk is stam not a rayah either way. A yeshiva guy shouldn’t apply derech eretz from what was appropriate 2000 years ago for soldiers in the wilderness, during a war or in a survival situation. Similarly, I never saw a yeshiva guy take home an aishes yefas toar from the grocery store… heheh.
So, I’m not even 110% sure that I heard it, (it’s possible that it was only raised as a question but that there wasn’t an affirmative answer) but on the 99% chance that I did hear it, it was NOT that it’s assur, it’s that it is beneath the dignity of a recognized ben Torah to bend over a fountain to drink, and that it’s more appropriate to use a cup and drink like a mentsch. Also, this wasn’t said in context to yeshiva high school guys or young beis medrash bochurim, but intended to refine the sensitivities of the altar bochurim who would soon be getting smichah.
In a similar vein, I have always heard (this time 110% sure I did) that it is inappropriate for a ben Torah to drink beer from the bottle/can, but rather he should pour it into a cup. I don’t recall seeing this in tshuvas anywhere either. Just like drinking from a fountain, it’s just not one of those things that’s a “halacha” – assur or mutar- but rather a refinement of behavior that applies to those who should be sensitive enough.
ubiq – I fail to see where it says “laying down.”
jmh – I’ll quote my earlier statements for you:
1) “it wasn’t pride, it was sarcastic humor.”
2) “the Mahari Kra even explicitly writes “standing up.””
3) “…Karrite communities of Apikorusim” did not say ‘ubiq communities of Apikorusim.’
And yes, through theoretical investigations of Newtonian mechanics and countless scientific experiments, I have discovered that one can bend down to scoop up water, then stand up to drink it while erect. Amazing, I know…
By the way, even if you don’t want to look at the meforshim, the very next passuk says, “lapping with their hands to their mouths.” Klall u’prat, baby, klall u’prat…
And yes, I know why you brought it up. I’m arguing with you because, if I remember correctly, my Rebbi did say it’s not lechatchila for a ben Torah to bend over and drink from a fountain. I don’t know why you say nobody says like that when I just quoted you a bunch of meforshim who do.
ubiq- If there is one thing I am sure about, it is that the universal mesorah for limud haTorah, in all but perhaps the Karrite communities of Apikorusim, is not to create our own interpretations of psukim. Meforshim are much smarter than you and I, and they tell us how to understand the pasuk correctly. That being said, you are arguing with almost all the meforshim on the page. If you have another chazal that interprets the pasuk differently, please share it. Otherwise, you can’t baselessly argue with chazal to support your own opinion… well… I guess you can, but you’d be wrong.
It wasn’t pride, it was sarcastic humor. The meforshim in my Nach (which I named) clearly state the soldiers who were accepted were standing up to drink – I don’t know which meforshim you have in your Nach. The problem would be with bending over to drink, and nobody is saying drinking from a public fountain by bringing the water up to your mouth is a problem. You aren’t making sense, and you sound bitter.
ubiq and Just my hap… lack of bekius in Nach, an am haaretz does not make. I trust my rebbi enough to not make stuff up without a source, or unless he heard it from his rebbi (who was one of the gedolei hador until his recent passing). When I learn Torah I spend most of that time focusing on Shas, mussar, and halacha. Nach is great, but it’s not going to tell you how to keep mitzvos properly, and it’s more important to memorize halacha than to memorize what’s in perek 7 in Shoftim.
I decided to look it up and you are actually 100% wrong. Hashem tells Gideon to choose the ones who lap the water from their hands (the Mahari Kra even explicitly writes “standing up”) and to dismiss the ones that bend over to drink directly from the stream. The Metzudas Dovid, Ralbag, Rabbeinu Yeshaya, Baal Haturim and more, explain that this is because those that got down on their knees to drink showed an indication that they were used to bowing to the Ba’al. Sounds to me like you just proved my rebbi’s point. So before you slander my rebbi or my yeshiva maybe you should reconsider who taught you how to learn. I rest my case.
I’m not sure what’s in Shoftim perek 7 because I was in yeshiva, not seminary (ask popa maybe), but I think my Rebbi was saying it’s undignified for a ben Torah, not for the hamon am.
Mekublani mibeis rebbi that it’s undignified to bend over and drink like a horse from a trough.
I’d take the most expensive car available, then sell it, so I can afford to pay for more important things.
humorless much?
He got a nose job to make his nose bigger.
He went to the Star-K to make sure his kosher phone is “Kosher for Passover, and all year round.”
Back in Europe, he had his sheep checked for shaatnez weekly.
I’d want Clifford, the big, red dog.