Curiosity

Thanks everyone who contributed information. GoDaven lists nusach, not hashkafa.

AZ, you can keep labeling my facts “straw men” if it helps you sleep at night, but that won’t change them. You can’t take the religious values a very devout Xtian man like Pence shares in an address to a solely Xtian group in an effort to relate to those voters on their religious similarity, and conflate that with an election platform. It’s like saying Schumer’s speech to AIPAC in which he says the Torah says Jews own the land of Israel means that he wants to enact Jewish Torah law as the law of the land in the USA – that’s completely absurd and we both know it’s not true and that he’s just pandering to his base, as all politicians are wont to do.

The fact of the matter is that a VP doesn’t dictate policy or legislate, so your point is completely irrelevant. If you want to get into absurd things politicians say in speeches, I suggest you listen to Hillary’s campaign speeches in which she asserted at the 2015 Women of the World summit that, (and I quote) “deep-seated cultural codes, religious beliefs and structural biases have to be changed.” So I ask you, does she deny the freedom of religion protections in the Constitution? I assume not. I assume it’s reckless pandering to her base. Nonetheless, Democrat policies are backward and stupid with destructive ends, and I would never vote for one. Anyone who lists gov’t subsidized contraceptives as a primary reason to vote for the left needs to reassess their priorities.

Ubiquitin – I know you can’t do get prices like that. Part of the reason is because every situation varies so much that’s it’s not possible to quote. However, if there’s any added laws I would support it would be pro-free market laws, such as ones which would force health providers to list their charged fees.

I do agree the military is best run by government. Defending the people and their rights is the number one duty of the government. Public utilities – I would say that’s better handled by municipal and state governments. I don’t need my federal tax dollars going to pay for filling potholes in Albuquerque, and I don’t believe in heavy federal subsidies.

Ubiquitin- When I referenced high costs for routine procedures, I meant things like charging $60 for an aspirin, or $500 for a 10 minute checkup & diagnosis. Maybe “routine” wasn’t the right word to use.

With regards to pre-existing conditions being covered. As an example, if costs were lowered from the level of insanity that they’re at now, insurance companies might be able to hedge their risk of a small number of people with pre-existing conditions in a large group policy. Say a company with 500 employees has 45 employees with pre-existing conditions. Insurance companies are more likely to calculate that it’s worth the added revenue of 500 monthly premiums to take on the added treatment costs of 45 patients, once the treatment costs go down dramatically. I’m not an actuary so I can’t speak to that with certainty.

dbrim- Thanks! 😀

Amil Zola,
The story about VP Pence being against contraceptives in policy is fake news propaganda. It has long been debunked. He is against abortion, but that isn’t a contraceptive. I don’t need to address false misinformation.

Sorry Mods 🙂 I’ve got too much to say on these topics. Believe it or not, I do try to be brief.

Amil Zola – You don’t have to respond point by point. Those were all points that you brought up, and I did address every single one of them for you. Since you didn’t respond to even one point, I can assume you don’t have a response, which is totally fine. I don’t want to convince everyone to think exactly what I think, but I do encourage people, especially Jews, to use facts not emotions or misinformation, when forming opinions about political topics. I would say that I am vested in rational thinking, and I see zero logic in the Democratic leftist platform, it’s all based on short sighted emotions, in opinion.

CTLAWYER: Oooooh boy! Where do I even start?

“Curiousity”
–Not my screen name. (Is he talking to me?)

“Your ignorance and bias is amazing.”
–Pleasant evening to you too, good Sir.

“You paint all who vote for candidates of one party as being the same.”
–Gross generalization, I admit.

“I am a Democrat.”
–Condolences.

“i vote for individuals. not party. I detest the fool who is leading our country backwards.”
–Name one example, please. Unemployment rates, foreign policy, trade deficits, GDP growth, NATO contributions by allies, and Israel’s defense by the USA in the UN are all at an all time (or long time) best.

“The orange haired, serial adulterer”
–Adulterous women have a thing for rich, fat, married, Hollywood real estate moguls with orange hair, I guess…???

“who enriches his friends and family and hurts our economy.”
–You’re conjuring up thoughts of the pay-to-play scandal by the Clintons. Also,the family’s net worth dropped around a reported $1 Billion since he took office. Ivanka just shut down her business. He isn’t getting rich from this.

“I will pay more than $20,0000 in additional federal tax this year under his new tax structure, money that used go to Tzedaka.”
— Well, it’s a good thing everybody else will be getting fatter paychecks to add to their tzedaka isn’t it? Isn’t that what Democrats preach? Take from the rich upper middle class and give everyone else free college tuition, Obamacare, Obamaphones, more government benefits, etc? You should really not have a problem with this considering it’s the platform your representatives support. Also Mr. Trump has donated his $400,000 presidential salary to charity to offset your $20,0000, which is not a real number.

“I don’t want non-citizens to vote, despite your FALSE claim.”
–Hey! We agree on one thing! There’s hope for you, yet!

“I don’t want open borders, but those arriving and seeking asylum should not be turned away.”
–What about the overwhelming majority who sneak across our borders for economic opportunities and cut ahead of actual vetted asylum seekers who are fleeing actual conflicts from actual war zones and are courteous enough to follow our laws and submit a proper application? I’m pretty sure the application is available en español. Not to mention all the women and children victims of rampant human trafficking that occurs because the Democrats won’t support securing the border. If you care about them, seal the border already!

“Must I remind you of the fate of the passengers on the MS St. Louis back in 1939.”
–Irrelevant.

“Trump is a hateful,”
–Nah

“divisive,”
–Can you give me an “O”?! (bama)

“lying individual.”
–Can you give me an “H”?! (illary)

“I’d rather have a family of hard working central American immigrants here”
— That’s a gross generalization.

” and him and his family on the other side of a prison wall.”
–Is it because of the orange hair? Why do you want to lock Jews up?

Noyb – Amram was not doing any of the above, yet his daughter Miriam used the same analogy. That’s not to say they all don’t stuff kids into walls or bathe in the blood of kids who don’t get accepted. I’ve heard some pretty vicious things about some cheder schools. 😉 The parents being slaves part is vaday true for almost all the schools.

Takes 2- Who will feed the family if the parents have to stay home to teach their kids or go back to school?

RebbYidd. Yes. Unless it is a co-ed school, in which case it begs the question, should a couple have kids if their only option is to put them through co-ed school?

Syag, how do you know I’m the same author as the one on the other thread? Maybe I’m the scarred, cynical sibling of the other post’s author?

For all those people using their offended feelings as opposed to facts as a response to my initial question, please be advised I am not condemning teachers at large.

My initial $50k example was in reference to teachers whose full-time job consists of teaching 1 or 2 classes a day and who take 3 months off every year. I’m not saying we should pay actual full-time teachers who work 8-9 hours a day less than $50k, or trying to create a wage scale for teachers nationally. That would be silly, considering wages shift by geography, experience, education, school, etc.. All I’m saying is that I think teachers undervalue the amount of time off that they get when/if they complain about their salaries – and there’s no question that some teachers like to complain about their salaries.

That being said, I think everyone should fight to earn as much as they can. But from the perspective of a potential future tuition payer, I also have a right to question the exorbitantly high tuitions in Jewish schools and seek a fair distribution of that which I will have to contribute to.

Syag, I am not condemning anyone. All I’m saying is that I think teachers undervalue the time they have off and the flexibility of their schedules when they assess their wages, and that those who complain about it should either get a different job, or stop whining about it.

Also, while I do value your virtue of sympathy, I really have no need for it. This is not something that has bothered me at all for well over a decade. Someone here suggested I have no right to an opinion since I don’t currently have kids in school. So, despite my belief that present irrelevance does not preclude an opinion, I presented the relevance to my life as an anecdote. If I have any virtue at all, it’s knowing and being comfortable with my own subconscious negias. I am not some scarred individual walking through life all pathetic-like and begging for pity. If anything, I still have a strong kesher with the rabbeim in my story. And, despite my offense at their prior comments, I appreciate that they showed me the harsh realities of being underemployed, which steered me away from being a marbitz Torah and motivated me to get a higher education in a STEM field, so I can help support their yeshiva, BS”D.

Syag – Perhaps it bothers me so much as an adult to hear teachers whine about their pay because back when I was in school, a few of my rabbeim would jokingly complain on a regular basis about their low $40k-50k salary. It was a running self-deprecating joke by the rabbeim that they do not make any money – hardy har har. This seemed particularly cruel to me since at the time I was growing up in a home with 2 immigrant parents who, despite working multiple jobs, only earned about $35k annually, combined. My parents didn’t have a choice – they didn’t speak English. These rabbeim had a choice. Don’t make a decision and then whine about the consequences.

Apushatayid-
With regards to your first post: You are comparing the salary of one of the top earners in the NBA, a selection of the best athletes in the world, to the salary of an average citizen. That’s not how basic economics work in a capitalist society. Maybe in the Communist USSR.

Make a point – I’ve never screamed that. I don’t even have children. It should not be the parents’ business what teachers do in their free time, as long as it isn’t illegal, unethical, or morally reprehensible. Parents shouldn’t have a say in how teachers make ends meet to pay their bills. That still doesn’t mean teachers are underpaid for their time. You’re saying they just feel they need 3+ months to recuperate from the stress of their job. Maybe we just need a week of mandatory resilience training and therapy for teachers?