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They key word in mammele’s comment was “delicately”.
Shlishi, there are tons of chazal out there that say you have to be hard as a brick regading tochacha and all that, but alas, many mesorahs say otherwise. It’s because we have to take into consideration yeridas hadoros. You aren’t as good as giving tochacha and the other person isn’t as ready to be mekabel tochacha as the generation that the Sefer Hachinuch was published for. If you truly embarass someone in public today you wont get them to listen to you, you’ll get them to curse you and possibly punch you in the face. They will be distanced from yiddishkite, not brought to tshuva. Again, “vlo tisa alav chet.” “Malbin panim berabim kshofech damim dami.”
I’ve heard my roshei yeshivas say “everyone should go to therapy.” It’s not just for people with severe emotional or mental problems. Everyone has conflicts and problems in life, and we gain tremendously by having someone who understands the workings of the human mind to discuss it with. They even said if they could afford it that they would go to therapists. I also heard a very big Rosh Yeshiva (yes, with capitals) of a prominent Yeshiva in NY say that: before dating, guys should work out their issues. He was talking to the talmidim so he said guys, but I’m sure he means girls too. Psychology is a science and it has results. Whoever thinks therapists are just for crazies doesn’t know much about psychology and kochos hanefesh.
….*slowly walks backwards out of this thread*
Machoh Timcheh, if I’m not mistaken, you started this after you ranted on the “what people look for in shidduch dating” thread. Thus, I take it I’m included in what you said. I would have you know what I said is not my own opinion, but the hashkafa that I received from my Rosh Yeshiva, who is a tremendous talmid chacham and was a very close talmid of a gadol b’Yisroel who recently passed ZY”A.
Shlishi. My rebbi always said people forget the rest of the pasuk, “”vlo tisa alav chet”.. if its probable that the person won’t heed your tochacha it’s assur to give it (don’t remember if he used the word “assur”, but the maskana was DON’T give it). Leave it to someone whom they will listen to. Besides, you have to give tochacha for the right reasons. There are very reliable rabbeim out there who say giving tochacha has to be done so delicately and precisely that we aren’t even on the maylah of mussar to do it nowadays. You are definitely not allowed to insult, embarrass, or offend someone while giving tochacha. It’s not such a simple thing.
Yup, I was also told by a nutritionist that if you want to be totally hydrated for a fast, you should start drinking the proper daily amounts two weeks in advance. Chugging a ton of water erev-fast is counterproductive because you can’t absorb it fast enough, and it causes you to wash out your electrolytes that conduct nerve impulses from the brain.
Why can’t we just all agree that we should try to emulate our Avos and Imahos? Avraham “didn’t know Sarah’s beauty” after years of marriage, until she slightly lifted her dress to step over a puddle and her ankle showed. I’m not saying you should wear dresses that drag on the floor, but it’s obvious that Sarah imeinu felt that even that level of tznius wasn’t over the top. We should try to do our hishtadlus by doing what we are comfortable with, while striving to become better in our yiras shamoim and keeping of the mitzvos. There’s a concept of ‘bare minimum’, which is the line between issur and heter, but that’s not what we should be striving for. I think that’s the root of the problem here. It’s not tznius, it’s that we, collectively (yes, including myself), sometimes take pride in mastering the art of being as goyish as possible without crossing that bare minimum borderline of issur and heter. This isn’t an art, its a boosha.
Interjection, I don’t know your background, or why this is a nisayon for you, but if it’s worth anything, I hope the following gives you some chizuk: Men are attracted to tznius. A lack of tznius causes lust, not love. You can pick which one you’re truly after. The fact that a tznius girl gets less attention and “eyeballing” from the opposite gender, is solely because she is more respectable than the girl who looks like “an easy catch”, not because she is less attractive.
My mistake “jbaldy22”, I thought you were trying to argue that the benefits outweigh the negatives. All I’m arguing is that they don’t. Even if you only friend relatives and close friends, you can’t control what appears on their profiles, and what/who you are exposed to. But besides that, I’m saying the very nature of keeping up with someone else on the level that Facebook allows and encourages is unhealthy.. psychologically, socially, and spiritually.
Also, getting a job through Facebook isn’t necessarily an excuse. There are plenty of assur ways of finding work, some of which can’t be discussed on YWN without getting banned (and shouldn’t be discussed elsewhere for that matter), but that doesn’t make them mutar. Let’s not fool ourselves by arguing that finding a job through Facebook warrants its continued usage. I don’t mean this to offend anyone who was lucky enough to find work on Facebook, but I’m just saying that this ‘prat’ doesn’t necessarily justify the ‘klall’.
Coming from someone who had Facebook for years up until several months ago: Facebook is a disease. It’s a cesspool for avairas, and allows ppl to make comments which they wouldn’t have the chutzpah to say in person to someone’s face. Other than that, the need to “follow” people, read about their daily activities, and see photos of otherwise private events does not come from a healthy source. Life was much more private before Facebook, and its use is a constant corruption of tznius. It took me several years to become mature enough to admit this to myself.
Not that the rabbeim in yeshivas are wrong, but where is the chinuch for these supposedly frum girls?
Tznius isn’t decided by how many people of the opposite gender are looking at you. According to halacha you aren’t even supposed to be disrobed when changing into and out of your sleeping garments, but should do it under the covers of your bed. This isn’t because chazal were afraid somebody was peeping through your window, but because “m’lo kol haaretz Kvodo”. If anyone thinks having men not look is a solution, they are far from Daas Torah and completely mistaken.
The one thing I don’t get is how rabbeim in Yeshivas preach to their talmidim that wearing shorts in public is not tzniyus (unless engaging in an appropriate athletic or recreational activity that is normally done in shorts), but at the same time you can see seminary girls with their legs showing from the knee down – when everyone will often claim that girls have a higher standard for tzniyus than boys.
I’m from “out of town”, but do clothing stores have hechsheirim? if not, maybe they should start. It doesn’t need to become a giant taxing politicized beast with constant mashgichim fees like the food kashrus vaad business. It can be a community thing to help pressure frum clothing stores to not slide towards the malbush goyim.
Yaakov doe.. just drive with your eyes closed. In Brooklyn you wouldn’t even stand out.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t a Milchemet Mitzva only when Hashem tells us explicitly to go and fight? I’ve heard from my Rosh Yeshiva that we need both, the people fighting with their guns, and the people fighting in the Beis Midrash. It’s pashut to me that klal Yisrael would be a lot more dominant in the physical battlefield if the government and the people appreciated the spiritual battlefield, and not try to extinguish Yahadus and the flame of the Torah.