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Obviously someone out there knows that I have what to say about this topic…Okay, Always runs with scissors fast, now, may be the time to slow the pace a bit and stop running. For starters, you say you have had this previously, so how did you cope in the past? Did you learn something about what triggers you or what patterns set off your anxious thoughts? Hormones are surging during pregnancy, and especially towards the end a lot of women go through some mood swings which, as long as you can function through, are par for the course. If they cause extreme irritability, seek help and let your doctor know. Check your thyroid if this continues after the birth. There are other options you can take and I will be more specific soon. If you cant sleep, know this is hormonal, don’t make a big deal about it by staying put and trying. This will actually make it harder. Try not to think about “how I will not be able to function tomorrow without sleep etc, Im going to crack up, or snap etc. my mind cant focus..” because those very thoughts will actually cause even more panic. Do you know that the body actually doesnt need as much sleep as we think? Moreover, your body, (and trust it) will actually take whatever it needs for survival. So be it a quick cat nap on the couch or for two hours when the kids leave to school,(and skip the starch on the shirts..)your wonderful amazing body will take what it needs. Believe in it and it will serve you. Be afraid of it and it will become anxious, unsure and insecure about all that is to come. Especially the time before birth women who are always in control tend to “lose it” because birth and whatever comes along with it creates the feeling of the unknown, lack of control, not knowing how labor will be etc. will my doctor be there…. all those can wreck havoc in a woman’s thoughts, so close to birth. So instead of thinking into the future, about things which we really have little control of, take some secure thoughts about things that you do have control of such as your breathing or your nutrition, or taking a walk around the block so you keep your vitality up before delivery. Yes, the kids are kvetchy, you are irritable, everyone perceives this differently according to their specific threshold. Sometimes all systems get lit and the switchboard feels like its on fire! But take the secure thought that this is temporary and you have been down this path before. Perhaps you need to lower those expectations for perfection a bit especially now. Believe me I have been there, making sure the hampers are empty every night, making sure everything is ready so when you go in to the hospital,things are all set… To some degree “nesting” is normal behavior for a woman before birth, but our society and culture has driven us over the edge in some ways. Hashem is giving you the opportunity now to delegate jobs and not be so in control of every pulse in the house, please take those opportunities and let go and stretch a little so you dont deplete yourself before you need your real energy. Find a balance and give the rest to Hashem and it will fall into place. You might discover that you can give yourself permission to relax and not worry. You will handle it and get through it. Make sure you have good support and create a birth plan or even hire a doula so you have the best shot at having a successful, empowering birthing experience. Start some Omega fish oils and some extra B12 if you are already not on them. If your anxiety escalates or you want to speak with a trained person, call SPARKS at 718-2-SPARKS. They have a wonderful anonymous hotline that you can call 24/6 and will be very surprised at the support and info you will get. I believe this week there is a teleconference on Wed nite get on and just listen. The next week there is a teleconference on Pregnancy and self care for during and beyond, dealing with depression, anxiety etc. Call that number and you can get the number and pin for the conference. It is all FREE. Perinatal Depression is when depression or anxiety hits you during pregnancy, as opposed to Postpartum(after birth) Please dont just suffer or ignore your symptoms. There is great help out there, I know it feels mental, but it is PHYSICAL. Perinatal and postpartum issues are hormonal imbalances that GET BETTER! I know you are having trouble coping right now, but call that number and they will give you some advice for coping through this, and truly assess it. The best of luck. I will be looking for your thread to see how you are doing.
I guess I may as well call it a day. Now I see a post on Anxiety!!!
What are you guys thinking??? I am going to be dancin’ back and forth??!! I cant wait to join the “Nothing to say” thread. That would certainly give everyone some peace of mind.
Just want to let you know “beena yeseira,” all those good things you mentioned are certainly helpful in making a situation better, but “Always here” has mentioned and is correct- it is not always that simple. I do want to say that outcomes are far better, when there is household help, more effective sleep, taking supplements and the biggy..here goes.. (drum roll) good support from the husband and family system. Would you believe that statistics show that women whose husbands were clued in and there, supportive interested, and concerned, actually had far greater outcomes in the healing process. I will add though that husbands also need support to help them understand what is hitting them when after a simcha, which promises to be the highest time, suddenly throws them into this terrible situation. They get burned out and there is actually some incidence of depression in men that are going through ppd with their spouses. (makes sense) You cant expect them all to know how to respond to a wife that is in such a state. There are trained people that will talk to these men and normalize what is happening to them. There is some really valuable help out there.
ppd is different than regular depression. It is considered a physical illness. Yes hormonal imbalance is physical, although symptoms are the same and meds the same, ppd gets better, one can wean off meds and will not necessarily suffer other bouts of this in future pregnancies.
That is an excellent question in regard to postpartum women. All women after birth will experience some fluctuations in moods due to hormones which are surging and clearing out after birth. That is why women can be so fragile after they give birth. Regular baby blues should pass after the initial days up to a few weeks. If someone does not seem to be getting better they should seek help. I can give someone an excellent resource to call for support and amazing help. Different symptoms are more concerning than others. Anxiety, not being able to sleep, feeling overwhelmed can be things that many women feel after birth but that doesnt mean they have ppd. When symptoms become worse, such as the inability to bond with the baby, feelings of hopelessness, irrational thinking, obsessive scary thoughts, or feelings of grandeur, or delusional thinking-even just one of these listed, definitely raises the true concern for ppd. If anyone knows someone in such a situation, have them get in touch with me through our moderators. I will get them to where they need to be. You may be saving a whole family. These women are not going to just get over it, they need help.
Hi Tbt, just to answer your question, when we are talking CLINICAL depression, obviously, the diagnosis previously came from somewhere professional.(??) Oftentimes, if a person with a bad depression walks into a therapist and starts working, it will not always be successful. Why? There are a few reasons but one is that the patient is too symptomatic and will be resistant to being able to concentrate or process the work that needs to be done. You put someone like that into a CBT or DBT program and they will never come back. They will also decide that therapy stinks. Getting them back is something I need to work very hard at sometimes with a client.
So, understand then, that meds would help first and then therapy at some later point.
My point was not who is the right person to go to first. Both are many times needed. My decision is based on what I am hearing and how workable I think this person is. Some people are very stigmatized by the very thought of meds, and so I will advise therapy and hope that the therapist will be able to ease them into this idea of considering the meds. I am always glad when someone can work through his/her issues in therapy w/o needing to start the trials of medication. Medication can be a lifesaver for some, but it definitely is not candy. I have seen some amazing turnarounds thru meds, and at the same time, have seen some of the best Dr’s that I have worked along with, having a nasty time trying to find the right drug with the least amount of side effects. (Even, believe it or not..Dr. Leibowitz, whom I have been involved with. Good Dr. i.e. but also only human)
In regard to seeing a regular pcp(medical Dr.) I have for example Postpartum women who are feeling very anxious and having panic, and I could easily assume that they are manifesting Postpartum anxiety. However sending some of them for bloodwork, will sometimes show a thyroid imbalance which mimicks the same symptoms as anxiety many times. They go on thyroid medication and feel much better. I think that is amazing when they could be walking around trying to battle anxiety which is really an out of control place to be in. If bloodwork comes back normal sometimes, again, depending on how extreme, we consider some alternative approaches, looking at her diet and her lifestyle and what needs to be changed. We would then continue on to consider therapy, meds, etc
My dear mischief maker, what a thing to say, did you really mean that? I know it must feel that way sometimes but on a scale of 1-10, 10 being the worst, how seriously did you mean that comment? If you didn’t then you really can cause some mischief…
If you are feeling that bad please dont ignore it and get in touch with someone to help you lower those thoughts.
Happiest, I’m happiest that you feel better after that “bad mood ” day! However understand, that since you have some history, you have the knowledge of what your patterns are. If you would say, on a bell curve of an upward scale, you have little downward dips but are still on the up curve, and you are functional on those days, then you can say that little setbacks can be within normal,( for example, depending on what outside things are going on in your life that may influence anyones moods, on any level)although you need to be vigilant and watch for a pattern.
Sometimes when people have a little setback they get so discouraged and fearful that this in itself can throw them into Anticipatory Anxiety, which makes it all worse. You need to focus on how far you have come and what you have already acquired and learned. Taking secure thoughts with you, will keep the “mood” at bay and hopefully it will pass successfully. If you are worried, call your therapist and touch base.
Hilly Billy, It is really hard to work things out and be ready for life. But hey- you are already living it in this present moment.
Spending too much time thinking about FUTURE and PAST actually is very anxiety provoking. You sound like a very responsible person, but we are only people and cant always assume that we will have answers to everything in order to take the next step in life. Focus on being in the moment and not past or future. That doesnt mean you shouldnt think about what you need to do at a specific time tomorrow, but what I am trying to say really is, try to separate the things you CAN control and the things that are beyond your control. Beyond conrol and future worries, we need to leave to Hashem because that is where it belongs. Past thinking, about how “normal” you once felt, only makes you feel inadequate today. So stay in the moment and make that count. People overoccupy themselves a long time trying to prepare for marriage, kids, relationships etc. and because they are so busy worrying about it, they develop a fear about if they will be able to handle it or be successful at it. Fear stops one from putting himself/herself out there, and perfectionism paralyzes them from taking risks. You need to find your inner courage(which you already have in there, by the way)and start believing that you are good and valuable and everyone has challenges to work through,Take it from me. (the finest and the best, the most beautiful, and the most talented etc.) Challenges in this world are equal opportunity jobs that we all need to step up to. That is why we are here… If you think there are people that have it easy, look again. I am privy to a lot of information that has changed my perspective on life. You will meet someone that will appreciate the person that you are. Don’t be scared to get out there. If you are, get someone to help and support you. Work on your courage and please give yourself permission to be happy, make it a good day, you deserve it!
Wow..I have not been on in ages. I was hesitant to even start reading this thread because I deal with this stuff all day long, and I come in here to see something different, but I started scrolling down and…there I was… I sadly, got confused because oiy veiy, too many of you are depressed or so you are calling it.
Unfortunately, depression and anxiety is not unusual in our day and age. You are all wonderful, and as I scanned all the comments, I truly think you should all be proud that you have so many wonderful ideas to reach out and give support. There are some points that I would like to say and please forgive me if it is the same or perhaps a repeat. People use the word depression very freely in our society. A teen can come in and sit herself down in my office and say she is depressed but after some talk she actually can express that she is really upset or hurt about something that has happened. Clinically depressed? Not necessarily.
Much of the time young adults are battling feelings of low self esteem, friendship issues, relationship concerns with parents or siblings, how they are conditioned to view the world around them and how they feel about the way people view them. Real depression concerns are specificly diagnosed by a psychiatrist whereby the patient IS HONEST about how she feels and thinks. If someone really has serious concerns or feels unsafe or is not functioning,an appointment with a psychatrist is in order. It wouldnt be a bad ides to see a pcp as well. A physical exam and thyroid check in the bloodwork please. Please understand that psychiatrists are not mindreaders. Presentation is very important. Please please be OPEN. What you say and dont say may make the difference in the kind of diagnosis you receive. Along with a psychiatrist, once your symptoms are addressed, it would be wise to get into some therapy treatment so you have a safe space where you can feel validation and support to work through some tough things in your life which are what we call in therapy, triggers. Anxiety disorders, are a bit different than depression, and if meds are needed, can be helpful in lowering symptoms and thereafter one may go into a good CBT therapist to learn tools to lower your anxiety. In teens, sometimes we look at hormonal imbalances, similar to postpartum women. Imbalanced hormones can wreck havoc in the system, so it is something to consider. Diet an excercise can play a hugh role in the improvement of overall physical and mental health. The mind and body work very closely hand in hand. As Dr Sarno so clearly points to in his book about diseases, back pain and how it is very closely linked with emotional health. Taking Omega 3 fish oil and a good multi vitamin including additional B12 is vital. Go swimming or yoga or work out. Endorphins in your body are good hormones which are naturally produced as a result of exercise. Seratonin levels increase from exercise too. seratonin levels decrease as a result of depression and anxiety. In postpartum women, we encourage people to take some steps in nurturing and understanding that they need to be kinder to themselves. This is an important part of the healing process. In our society everyone is extremely hard on themselves.
There is an inner voice that we listen to all day about all the things we SHOULD or MUST do. You SHOULDNY or you’re really SUPPOSED TO… Becoming aware of an inner critic at volume 10, is detrimental to ones self esteem! Learning how to tap into the part of self that needs to be aware that it is time to give yourself permission to listen to your inner pain and own your issues so you can than move on to make necessary changes, and than free yourself and heal.Remember,when you crash with your head on the ground, there is only one place to go from there, upwards. Most of all, believe you can get better. A simple exercise that is very revealing is to ask yourself that if you were to go to the bridge and have an opportunity to throw away all your hardships and challanges and be rid of them, who would you then be and what would you fee like? What things would you then have the courage to take on and do? If you CAN tell me all you would do or how different life would be for you, than I have news for you, if you diligently follow your protocol, and do your work in counseling, you will get there sooner than you think because you are still able to separate yourself from the issues. If you tell me you can’t imagine yourself without these negative feelings and you cant clearly seperate your self from it, you may have to work a bit harder still, but believe you will get there. Hope there is some info here that can be helpful for someone. I certainly salute all of you and I am definitely here for anyone that wants to reach out.
Talent is not what you do. It is what you have become with all your G-d given opportunities despite all the odds.
sorry dont mean to be too profound… I do have a much lighter side, you know. Now THAT there takes talent, to be so multi faceted…
If I may take the opportunity to shed some light on some points that are being brought up here. I personally know some ehrliche male therapists that have told me that they do not lechatchila take on a woman client. So I ask, you do see the husband, correct? And that man has a wife. In therapy you are working on issues, I am sure. However his responses to life’s challanges also impact his wife, and vica versa. Which he goes on to tell me that sometimes he will bring in the wife…? ? Having said that, the
bottom line is that every care provider within the rules that must be followed under certain codes that bind, needs to do what works for him or her. Everyone needs to establish and create very clear parameters within him/herself as a clinician or coach, and know what will work for them – there are no generalities. What is uncomfortable for one may be totally acceptable to another.
I will neither judge nor evaluate a therapist for those decisions.
I have formed my own opinions in regard to such issues. We can never know what is in the mind of a woman or man coming in to see us. Sometimes the best healing work for a woman who has been through specific traumas can come from a male therapist who is honest, trustworthy, decent and kind There has never been healing without vulnerability. What is CRUCIAL though is that this therapist or coach needs to be firm about his boundaries, which will create for this client a very clear cut and predictable space for some good work to be done. Thus boundaries do not get fuzzy. It is the clinicians responsibility to set the pace and flavor of this meticulous working relationship, but at the same time offer a warm understanding environment. When I go into a room I leave my life outside of that door. The thing I take inside is my heart. I am not afraid to feel my feelings because I trust them as very good indicators for what my gut is telling me in regard to a person. Anyone read Irwin Yalom’s books, as he gives us personal glimpses into his patients dilema’s, desires, and motivations while at the same time struggles to reconcile his human responses
with what goes on in his brain as he treats his patients. If a therapist is afraid of looking into someones eyes to see what it is that he really wants, then perhaps he needs to consider why he is having an issue with this, and deal with it. Maybe he/she needs to clarify his transference,or countertransference issues.
Gosh, things that people have shared with me during my work with them, nothing shocks me anymore today. The issue is not about if I am comfortable or uncomfortable. It can not be about me, that is why they felt they could share it with me in the first place.
If a client wants a therapist that is only frum or of the same gender, by all means go for it.
Call an organization called SPARKS. They will definitely direct you with the proper support and direction you need. (718) 2-SPARKS good luck.
Pain is one thing that needs to be addressed. However how she feels about herself in the situation and the fact that it has impacted on her ability to have some control over herself and her life is just as serious. Taking measures to control the pain, and then not trusting herself to be able to determine what she is really feeling brings about confusion and self doubt in not being able to know the difference between a good day and a bad one. Thus the poor image, labeling , hopelessness etc. Get a good addictions professional to work out those feelings and provide support for her. Relaxation techniques and guided imagery are good tools in stretching her abilities to see opportunities that she can tap into even on a subconscious level. Good Luck
I couldnt help but join in on this topic that is very close to my heart. I am going to try to put this as simply as possible. People go to school to learn many different things. I think there is a lot of bad rap out there about life coaching which I think if we need to understand where the rap is coming from, then we will have more clarity. Some people in the helping field, that have schooled, worked, invested years of time, have a hard time understanding the life coaching dynamic, and respecting it. I can only say, that any provider be it a social worker, LMHC, family therapist , life coach, if honest and clear about his or her boundaries, of what he/she can and can not do, is providing an amazing opportunity for a person in need of that service, to do some good work. As providers we must realize that many times people do not know what type of service they need or will accept,at a given time. So oftentimes will arrive at the wrong address for work that needs to be done. Aries was very clear about what coaching is and is not, but we can not always assume that a “healthy” person is arriving to your doorstep, and you may not know it until you have already established a good working relationship, and they make you suddenly privy to some deep dark past trauma. Can you honestly say that you will send this client packing to someone who specializes in EMDR or such? The client likes you and feels safe with you. There are coaches that will do some psychodynamic approaches and sometimes they are not trained as such. If you do that type of work, please make sure you have the training and experience to go there with a person. The bad rap is with providers that are overstepping boundaries and losing track of the goals which is to get people to the right place to do what needs to be done with a client so they can break free from the chains that bind and blind them. Any professional needs to remember what “service” really means. Well said Aries, people are not coming in to walk out and think OMG I am so broken, I need fixing. The canvas for any good work in therapy begins with honoring a person for even reaching out and walking into your door. What courage it took for them to want to take that step. That is the stepping stone to accomplishing goals. I think that all people involved in this field, if clear about what our specialty is, will have success in effectively reaching goals with our clients, be it in whatever modality he is specialized in. The goal is to get better, different things work with different situations. They are all worth praise and respect. There are many times for various reasons that I choose to remain open to the different opportunities that I can recommend clients take advantage of. To answer the original post, coaching is nice just as some other professions within the field, but we need to be open and humble to know that nothing and no one is a fix all. We need to work together and step aside for each trained person and allow them to do what they are good at. When a PCP gives a psychotrophic drug to a patient, it may work. Is it the right way to go? I feel strongly that a psychiatrist is the person that is specialized to evaluate this person. I also believe in teamwork, and all providers being on the same page. I do everything in my power to make that happen. It works.