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Actually I was quite disappointed in the behavior of some of the other shoppers. I was there this past Motzaei Shabbos and again today. PEOPLE!! get a hold of yourselves!! the shoving and congestion was unbearable! I dont understand what would posses a normally demure and tznius populace to suddenly become daredevils with shopping carts and their bodies. I felt like a QB being sacked, BY WOMEN!! And then on line, I see a woman with one cart. She starts putting groceries on the conveyor and her husband then brings a second huge cart or groceries. Okay, it was annoting to me and the other people on the line but its just 2 carts. But no, the guy comes back with A 3RD CART pushes though all of us and gets behind his wife. At least his wife had the decency to look apologetic at the rest of us staring in disbelief. Him? nothing. Not even an inkling of remorse. I just don’t understand why basic midos go out the window during heavy shopping days. This is not the first time I have experienced this. SMH…..
Mmmmmm……Schmaltz herring. Yum.
And so my formula still stands. If my predictions are correct (and I believe they are) this topic will be closed very shortly.
I don’t know what this argument is all about. Popa and Health (in the original news thread) Have already insulted and berated you for your outlandish, stupid, absurd, and idiotic opinions. Now all of you of inferior intellect, be quiet and just agree with them like you should. They are so much smarter than you and surpass you in every way, shape, and form.
I find that chummus made with simple fresh ingredients at home is the best. Chickpeas, a quality olive oil (like colavita fruttato) fresh squeezed lemon and some salt/pepper/spices. Works like magic and family and friends can’t get enough.
Takahmamash, Ra’anana has the best of everything. Just ask Yechezkel Mizrachi.
I like lunacy
Ctrl Alt Del – To quote Dilbert, “I eagerly await your bizarre and other-worldly response”
Health – “If your theory was true then there would be No logic in any of my posts. And if you say -“Well there isn’t” -then you should refute my logic with your logic. Since you didn’t do that and all you did was attack me personally this shows that logically I’m not wrong. And you had some alterior motive(s) to put me down because you had the chance.”
Ctrl Alt Del – TOUCHDOWN!! You never fail to deliver. (HAHA no pun intended)
RebDoniel, thats an interesting take on the Yoetzet thing. But i think that kinda our fault too. Judaism is constantly obsessed with sexuality. We prohibit almost every interaction between men and women (and we seem to frown upon things that women want to do themselves, and can and should do) but yet we seem to make an exception for certain things. Like mochs and bedikahs. Its a little disconcerting. Think about this, imagine being an outsider, you know about our strict separation of the sexes yet, when a question arises about what could arguably be one of the most personal things ever, you have to bring it to a rabbi!! TO EXAMINE IT!! It looks skewed. Now, I really dont care what outsiders may think. But this is fostering a very bad feeling among women within the fold. WE are saying that men are uncontrollable and are seconds away from transgressing halachic sexual violations so why do we allow a man to perform such an intimate examination?? Shouldn’t a woman do that too? So I think we are being complicit in fostering this feeling among the women of our community.
As an aside IMHO if a woman wants to do something, and its fully within the realm of their doing, why should they be prohibited from it or even frowned upon for doing it.
Health-“I’m assuming you posted here in this topic because either you agree with Hatzolah about EN or you’re Hatzolah”
Actually neither,This topic interests me because I am a healthcare provider and things that effect or impact the delivery of care interest me. These topics also happen to attract you. Only your replies to hard questions and issues seems to be the spaghetti approach. When you want to know if spaghetti is truly done al-dente, you throw a single one against the wall. If it sticks its done. If it falls, you cook the rest a little longer and test agin in a minute or so.
Now, after people call you out on your responses or they disagree with you, you resort to flinging another noodle. And then another. And then another. And then the accusations and name calling. Its a pattern. We’re all used to it by now. (At least some of us are) Its amusing (at least to me). So I sit back and I watch the fireworks and I make a small quip on how this entire thread is following a predictable track.
As a humble suggestion, try to recognize that sometimes other people bring value to the table. You may not agree with them, but try to recognize that other peoples opinions/education/experience lend credence and value to their statements. the title of omnipotence and omniscience has already been taken, by God.
I have a feeling that I am about to be called a Hatzolah member, an ICU nurse, a PA, an NP, a paramedic, and uneducated boor, a holier-than-thou doofus, a stalker, a lout, an oisvorf, a troll….etc etc etc……. To quote Dilbert “I eagerly await your bizarre and other-worldly response”
A freilichin purim to all
Health “Excuse me Mr. Nurse in the ICU”
While I am sure there are many fine men in the nursing profession, I am not one of them.
My post still stands. No matter what the argument, somehow no matter how infinitesimally small the knaitch is, there will be some way that you will find yourself right. Its not an attack. It is sarcastic. But it is what it is.
Guys, (and gals), Don’t you know by now that PBA and Health by virtue of their extensive awesomeness (and your lowliness) that they will always have an answer for you? That they will always have the super stretched kniatch svara somewhere that somehow backs up their point as right? Please, there is no way that anyone knows anything more than those two. All the people need is some clean cloth and pressure and shoin! all bleeding will be controlled. Henceforth, no one shall have any valid point should PBA or Health disagree with them. And if should be so foolish to insist thathave a point, they will get a severe tongue lashing in the form of Health or PBA pointedly telling them that they are foolish, naeive, and wrong A SECOND TIME!!!
Just for the record he IS a Hatzalah member, for Hatzalah of Union County.
“people in my program yell at me for doing that”
Why are you subjecting yourself to such treatment?? Why are you tolerating such treatment?? Wait!! Don’t tell me, because with out this seminary you won’t get a good shidduch. I’m sorry, I don’t mean to kid. (commence the piling on by other posters!) Please take care of yourself. Refuah Sheleimah.
To date, I have a pretty good track record.
CTRL-ALT-DEL: Please answer the question, what is your source for the strong statement that a man is not obligated to have children?
No such strong statement was made. I said that non-commission of this mitzvah does not rise to the level of commission of an aveirah. A man is obligated to have children but if he doesnt, then what? And your supposed to have at least one boy and girl right? Rashi didn’t. Was he oiver on this mitzvah?
Toi, there are no guarantees in life, but I would like to think that I lead my life based on principle and that what I would suggest to others I would do myself.
“when its another poster’s kid who gets redd the shidduch. Get a grip; most people would turn and run”
My whole point earlier was that arriving at the above statement is just incredibly sad. Its not about judging, bitachon, or emunah. Its just a commentary on what I see as a sad state of affairs. My wife and I struggled for years to have children. Go ahead, ask me if time travel were possible would I the shidduch. I’ll save you and the mods some time; no. Simple because IMHO the purpose/meaning of a wife and getting married is more than having her pop kids out like a Pez dispenser. there is no judgement here. I was just commenting on where we find ourselves today.
PBA, I’m sorry you don’t understand my reaction. Perhaps its because you are “incorrigible, semi-retarded, and eccentric”. Sorry, all joking aside. Don’t you find it just a little disconcerting that the entire value of this girl is being distilled down to the fact that her mother and her aunt had fertility problems?
Artiste: First, men do not “have to have children”, it is a positive commandment that if fulfilled results in gaining a mitzvah. Not having children is not a transgression of this. Its merely non commission. Second, do you think it is within your power to prevent agmat nefesh? I truly, truly wish you had that power. But you dont. Does hashem not play a role in this? If you truly believe in bashert this should have no bearing. (sp?)
And what about the agmat nefesh of this girl who is rejected because her mother had fertility problems.
Now you can say that this is just an unfair world and well, that’s what she has to live with. I can agree with that. Its terribly unfortunate, but I would agree with that assessment. The only difference between us is I am not participating in the craziness.
Don’t worry though, I’m sure we can find 9 or 10 cats that will live with her.
I am so glad we have now tied the value of a woman/wife to the functionality of her ovaries/Fallopian tubes/uterus. Congratulations!!! Mazal Tovs all around!!! I think I’m gonna be sick.
I think my biggest issue this story is why does one teacher have so much pull regarding this student. I was an idiot in school and a pretty bad kid. And though I’m sure that my “report” was not good, I ignored it. As did my shidduch who is now wife. because as a grown-up I became a different person. How sad that we allow the system to entrust so much power in the hands of so few. IMHO if potential shidduch takes what a former teacher has to say so seriously that they would write you off a because of it, consider yourself lucky. You have dodged a bullet.
If it turns out you wrote a bad review, you have then wrote Lashon haraa and you will join the likes of The Wolf who, by his own admission many, many times on this board is an absolute sinner since he is clearly asking people’s opinions on goods/services and putting a “stumbling block” of front of folks should they have a bad opinion of someone/something.
If its a good review, well, then clearly the restaurateur paid you off.
Oy, LaGuardia. A wreck of a mayor and a wreck of an airport.
DY, please. If it was only me that thought that I would agree that I was reading too much into it. However, I was not the only one to pick up on the visceral reaction that you seemed to have to my query. And I’m not upset at you or anyone else. I was just pointing out that your reaction is typical these days. And its not such a puzzling statement at all. the Torah itself does not consider the learning of a mitzvah to be the actual doing of it. I cannot be mekayem lulav v’esrog by learning about it. Even in depth. I could not make a brochoh on them and then learn the appropriate mishnaoyos. If you don’t pick up the lulav and esrog, you didn’t do the mitzvah. Now you could say that if you were unable to get a set and you felt really bad and took up the learning you could get some s’char for the effort, but the schar is for the learning (that can “equate” to the mitzvah, but its certainly not the mitzvah. Look, we are getting off topic. I think FarEast is right. We are having a problem in orthodoxy. We are letting differences in Halachah drive a wedge between us in real practical life. We are turning minhag (which of course has its place) into halachah, and eschewing those that dont follow the ones that we do. Some of you read WolfishMusings posts and don’t seem to get that his self denigrating posts are tongue-in-cheek commentary on this exact situation. he is of course a perfectly fine Jew. I would hazard to say that he may even be approaching a really really fine Jew, yet there are those that would criticize him (for real) as he does to himself. We drive wedge after wedge after wedge between us. There is a difference in machlokes in learning which leads to better understanding and machlokes in in practice, which leads to divisiveness and destruction. Do a little historical research on Beis Shammai and Beis Hillel and their often public arguments that actually led to the killing of students from Beis Hillel. We are on a dangerous path when real halachic discourse translates to splintering of our people.
Health, I am orthodox. Daas, thank you for proving my point. The first thing you thought of to do was to discredit me as a non-believer. (at least in torah sheBaal peh) simply because I pointed out to you that it doesn’t actually SAY that talmud torah k’neged kulam. And furthermore, there would never be anyone who would believe that to the point that they would actually put that into practice. Want a cheeseburger? Go ahead!! I did morning seder today and after all, talmud torah k’neged kulam right? Do you really believe that statement? Would you put it into practice? No. You wouldn’t. Because the thrust of the statement is to enforce the importance of talmud torah, and that learning serves as the base of all observance. No rav in the world (past or future) would ever take that statement literally. If they did it would spell the end of torah observance as we know it.
Now that I have established what I meant we can move on to the larger point. In general , there is a trend toward the right in orthodox Judaism today. It is resulting in a lot of discord because instead of it being a machlokes in learning we have moved it out of the theoretical and made it a real machlokes. We have even taken minhag and elevated it to the status of halachah. (a different conversation altogether) And those we see not following what we deem to be the right way we immediately dismiss as kofrim, goyim, whatever (sound familiar Daas?) Ad hominem attacks like :
“Unless I’m misunderstanding, C-A-D doesn’t consider Torah sheba’al peh part of Torah. If Mishnayos wasn’t good enough, why would S”A be better?” DaasYochid
are part of the problem. Did you really think that?
We need to step back from the brink. Sometimes at night before I go to bed I pick up some nach for some “light” reading and I am astounded at the repetition of history. I have often wondered if there is some navi out there, or some chronicler who is writing this stuff down, all the petulant arguments and all the divisiveness. We certainly havent learned our lesson from our own history. Maybe when our great great grandkids read our story they will get the message. Maybe. But I’m not holding my breath.
As for the original post by FarEast, Yes, you are finding that the more out there opinions may be quashed. It is simply a function of the rightward trend in Orthodox observance. I am positive that the “taliban women” are convinced that they have the “true” observance of tznius. Do they? Are we kofrim in their eyes? would they let you post your opinions on tznius on their forum? (yeah, yeah, the internet is ossur. I know) Here is another example. Some younger kollel guys I know referred to me the one day (in my presence) as “Harry” (an apparent reference to my MO looks and therefore shaky observance right?) not knowing that I am aware of the meaning, and certainly not knowing of my years spent in beis medrash. The “inside” joke being that “ha ha he doesn’t know how superior we are to him because we are spending time in kollel and he goes to work every day”. I brushed it off as youthful indiscretion, but it really bothered me that they couldn’t accept that there actually may be other ways to be orthodox then their definition. And that they quite possibly really thought that I was some lesser Jew than them. And that is the crux of it. We are slowly fracturing into splinter groups that can no longer tolerate each other. What are we to do? What are we to do…..
“As for where it states what I said.
Meshes Peah”
Thank you, So it is not in the Torah, correct? It was said “about” the Torah. My point is that While we don’t have to entertain every naarish idea that someone comes up with and “proves” from the Torah, we certainly cannot dismiss halachic opinions that stem from an actual effort to understand and interpret the torah by people who have studied it extensively. A rough example would be say…. sturgeon. There are actual rabbonim who hold its kosher. Not just b’dieved kosher but full fledged kosher. Now we have a majority that disagrees but does that “discredit” the dissenters? I would posit No. But recently there has been a movement in Orthodoxy to not just disagree with someone on the other side of the aisle but to actively discredit the other side. I dont see a need for that. Do you take for granted electricity is ossur on shabbos? Probably you do since contemporary poskim have paskened so. But around the time of its discovery, no one really understood what it was. And some rabbonim at the time may have had different explanations on the nature of electricty and some may have leaned to the ossur side and some to the muttar side (depending on what the electrons actually do) Now that we more fully understand the nature of electricity we have determined its ossur, but back then were those that were mattir it “wrong” at that time? Were they kofrim? I think we are on a dangerous road these days where dissenters are branded heretics and “goyim”. Note, Im not talking about folks who abandon torah or choose not to follow some laws.
“The Torah states quite clearly “V’Talmud Torah K”Neged Kulam”.
Talmud Torah (learning Torah) is equal to all other Mitzvos.
Ben Levi,
Please tell me where it says this in the Torah.
Wolf +1
Q: Who is the Rav HaMachshir of the restaurant at the end of the universe?
A: Svlad Cjelli of course.
Syag, was that for me?? Sorry. Too many internet memes bouncing around in my head. I shouldn’t call anyone in this argument retarded. Its an insult to retarded people everywhere.
Every so often I check on this post to see just how stupid it is. Arguing over the internet is like running in the special Olympics, whether you win or lose you’re still retarded.
Uhhh. Zees, Dolphina meant “poison” about the spelling. Like people would automaticaly make a judgement about you if you spelled it Mitzvot (MO) or mitzvis (Frummy) or mitzvois (super BP frummy) Not that mitzvot are poison.
Hmmm, Gerritsen Beach may be part of Queens. I don’t remember exactly.
Bensonhurst Vol Amb
Park Slope Vol Amb
BRAVO
East Midwood Vol Amb
NY Community Vol Amb
Shorefront Vol Amb
Tri-Community Vol Amb
Gerritson Beach Vol Amb
Flatland Vol Amb
Bed-Stuy Vol Amb
Those are just the ones in Brooklyn (that I can remember)and almost those volunteers are eligible for VAS plates.
Wow, I am so sorry you had that experience growing up. And I am so sorry that it continued into your adulthood and that you have to address it Like this. I commiserate with you in that I too share a similar experience such as yours. You are very brave and you have come a long way. Shana Tovah.
I was there in my ambulance. Horrible scene. There are just some things I’d like to un-see.
Song, if we implemented this plan now, how would the Yeshiva meet it’s current obligations right now?
“And these are people who are helping the yeshivos that do not charge annual tuitions of $25,000 per year (those schools also have budget shortfalls),”
Nisht, This is the precise problem. There is always a short fall there is always a lack of money, there is always a need for more more MORE. Why is there always this need? A lot of this issue has to do with the fact that we are duplicating What is already done in the public school system. We are paying not only rabbis to teach our children Torah but we are also paying English teachers for the rest of the secular subjects. Continuing on this theme, once we are already having to duplicate so much schooling, this neccesitates duplicating the facilities too. It’s too much money. We don’t have any more money to give. The yeshiva system as it currently stands is unsustainable. Now I am not passing judgement on this. But in our pursuit of complete separatism from the non Jewish world so much so that we won’t send our kids to a public school, we have built ourselves into a very very tight corner. Until we all come to grips with that the tuition problem is never going to go away
“Oh, that is what they call “vouchers”.
“I shared this daydream with a menahel, and he angrily told me that he would declare me an enemy of Yiddishkeit. He stated that the yeshiva needs the freedom to pressure the parents for tuition.”
Little and Gavra, this comment is for you. I asked a local administrator what would realistically happen if the pipe dream of vouchers were to come true. The answer? Tuition would rise by the amount of the vouchers. Are you folks hearing this??? I thought I would puke.
The beginning of Shoftim (not the parsha) says that the Judges were being judged. there are 2 explanations. 1) woe is the generation that judges their judges, or 2) woe is the generation that the judges do things that cause the nation to have to judge them. I think its a rashi right in the beginning. Folks, every day I lose hope that we are now in the 2nd. Because if its the first at least some charismatic rav/leader could come and shlep us up with him. with the second, we are lost. SMH…..
I used to use a mechanical pencil. 0.2mm lead. Super fine writing.
Thank you for your concern Ready, but this is not about me.
I have struggled for a definition myself for some time now. I grew up cloaked in all things yeshivish. But over the years I merged secular and modern lifestyle ideas with my yeshiva upbringing and the 2 didn’t seem mutually exclusive. But what was I? How could I define myself? Did going to college make me compromise on Kashrus? No. Does watching TV or seeing a movie lessen my observance of Shabbos? No. So what mahalech am I following? And what would you call the millions like me? Just what is MO? After a lot of discussion with friends and family I think I have come upon a definition. Now, you always have those that follow extremes, but I think this is a very reasonable and measured take on MO. I think that MO means, that when a problem or conflict (big or small)comes up between our Jewish Values and observance and modern concepts and values, we do not automatically and reflexively recoil and say NO. Its very easy to say no. But it comes at a price. An analogy would be….
Imagine that you have to cross a street. Could be a small one that is seldom traveled, it could be a large, dangerous thoroughfare. You have 2 choices. Carefully navigate across, or stay on your side, keep walking, maybe cross later, maybe never at all. But, should you continue to walk you may run into the neighbors dog. A vicious cur that will most likely chase you across the street and remove from you the luxury of being careful as you cross.
The internet.
A massive thoroughfare on par with the most dangerous boulevards in the world. Cars hurling left and right threatening to brain even the most careful and alert pedestrians. What do you do? Well what was done by most of the Chareidi world was to keep walking. We will cross somewhere else. First, ignore it. Its just tumah! Then, its assur!! If we find it in your home, your kids will be kicked out of our school!! But then years of walking down the road came to a halt… they met the neighbors dog!! The net was everywhere already. It was already in the hands of almost every Jew. With its vile filth and its productive contributions. Now you have to run into the street. Make an Asifa. Make filtering software. Hurry hurry, stop the bleeding from the dog bite and avoid the cars!! Its all a little too late. Yes, some will be saved. But many will not. The measured MO response was wait… lets analyze this and see if it has positive aspects. Hey we can post the entire daf yomi on here!! we can have shiurim from far and wide on here. Jews who are unaffiliated can now connect with frumkeit across continents!! Uh oh, there’s bad stuff here too. Lets see if we can outweigh the vulgar with holiness. Lets educate those that use this and stress the good that can be done. And to be careful.
This is what I think MO comes down to. Carefully navigating across a street instead of just the usual “we’ll just keep walking along.” Because while “assuring” something and walking by might work for a while with some things, it has a tendency to fail. And when it does, it is a spectacular failure.
I am getting a license because I believe in the value of having a means of communication other than cell phones and email. Chas V’shalom if for any reason those systems went down, or were overwhelmed (ala 9/11) most people would be without any forms of communication. Power outages too. Most cordless phones run off of electrical service, not the phone line like the old phones (does anyone even have those anymore?). Ham radio gives you the ability to communicate over short and long distances. And its almost for free (the study books do cost a bit)the exam is free, and you dont even need the books anymore. You can download and memorize the question pool. So that’s why I’m getting a license.
This is so funny that this thread came up just when I am studying to get my license.
Really??? MATZAH??? Please dont eat a whole box of matzah, your digestive system will thank you!!
Holy Moses, Pete is still alive??? I remember that guy. WOW that was sooooo long ago. He was one of the first paramedics ever in nyc. Literally, at the start of ALS in NYC.
hagen daaz coffee ice cream. (no pun intended of course)