Ex-CTLawyer

@AvraminMD

As I mentioned in a comment, I had never seen or heard the term SNAG until reading it in this thread. It is not a derogatory term uttered aloud in the OOT communities I’ve lived in. In about 7 decades of life Misnagid has only been used as self description and see when reading Jewish history.
Never has local Chabad used the term aloud I. My presence.
As I have repeatedly commented: in small OOT communities all types of Jews support all Jewish institutions. Since the Chabad Day School is majority funded by both Litvish and non-orthodox Jews, the local Chabad would not public use those terms about their donors.
The true infighting that I see, hear abc read about is I. The major Jewish communities and EY

I grew up in New Haven. I think we belonged to (and paid dues each year) to 4 shuls. I left for another CT Town 35 years ago , but still belong and pay dues to 2 of those that are still operational.
My big city Jewish friends did/do not understand the obligation small town Jews take upon themselves to make sure all Jewish communal organizations can survive and fund them.
Federation makes Chabad, Litvish and Solomon Schecter schools all constituent agencies and allocated funding. Thus wealthy Reform Hews knowingly fund Orthodox education through Federation donations as well as responding to individual fundraising.
As I said we self identified as Misnagid, but that doesn’t mean that there isn’t a bronze plaque with our family name on a classroom at THS Chabad Day School. I also spent two years as President of a shul which because of mergers davened Nusach Ari using Tehillay HaShem sidfurim

@Rso
I must live a really sheltered OOT life. Until this thread I never came across the term: SNAG
OOT all Jews must live in harmony

@Neville
I guess I am a nobody by your logic…..
A multigenerational Litvish Jewish American, I was brought up to proudly use the term Misnagid when describing myself. In fact you will see me use it in some comments I have posted in the CR over the years.
My familial and personal opposition to Chasidus is not to its individual adherents but the practice of establishing a ‘court’ ruled by a dynasty. Just being the son or son-in-law of a leader does not make one a Talmud Chochem or a leader or anyway qualified to take over control of Millions of dollars of assets and direct the votes of followers.
I particularly object to a Chasidus where a Rebbe dies and multiple sons take the title of the XXXXer Rebbe followed by a geographic location such as Boro Park, Monsey, Yerushalayim, etc. In affect setting up Cadet branches of these non-Royal Dynasties.

AND>>>>>>I may oppose (be Neged) the Chasidus for the above reasons, but still support their Yeshivos, Hospitals, Kollelim, Bikur Cholim, Food Distributions for the poor because They are Jews and I support all Jews to the best of my financial ability. I also have cordial social interactions with members of Chabad, Satmar, Ger, Sanz and Bobov.
Here, OOT, when I was growing up the Day School choice in New Haven was Chabad. Otherwise it was public school or be shipped OOT. Never was any of the Melech HaMoshiach sentiment expressed, but The Rebbe was alive for many years after I was out of school.

@Neville
Sorry, my math and concentration was great affected by the fast.
When I was a camper in 1965, there were the expected sports, swimming, boating, arts and crafts, color war and a couple of plays. We didn’t go on trips.

Now the camp not only has a computer lab, photography and video production studio, but this year added a 1/2 $Million Robotics building.

What ever happened to spending hours outdoors playing ball?
The dining hall now offers a salad bar as well as both vegetarian and vegan options. I remember lots of Government surplus pasta, canned fruits, peanut butter and butter.
Then we good get one treat each weekday from the canteen. All packages arriving by mail had to be opened in front of the head counselor and if you got a box of candy sent by a relative it had to be shared with the entire bunk.
Now Amazon trucks drop more than 100 packages a day. Some campers bring mini refrigerators, all have done electronics.
It is a different world

Rabbi J……
quite simply it is the high cost of doing business. Housing and watching/entertaining and feeding the children 24/7. Maintaining the premises, liability insurance for places that have swimming can be astronomical.

When I went to camp in 1965 it was $204 for each month. Now the charge exceeds that per day.
I have written that the CTL children, grandchildren, nieces, nephews, etc. do (have not gone off) go to camp, Instead we invested on an inground swimming pool, tennis, basketball, ball fields, etc in the compound. The children get to spend the entire summer with their extended family under the watchful eyes of family members, not overworked, underpaid teenagers. Over the past 40 years we have, as a family saved untold thousands keeping the children here and not shipping them off to camp.
I am not against camping. The late Mrs. CTL and I went to summer camp. My parents met at summer camp in the early 1930s. BUT times have changed and I am not comfortable with my extended offspring living in a cabin with 20 children and 1 or 2 teenagers as the supervision. Too much can and does go wrong.
How many of these camps are firetraps, built in hamlets without true building codes and enforcement. Yesterday I already saw the story in YWN of a camp fire this season in a girls camp.

BTW>>>>>>the expenses you have during the rest of the year has absolutely no bearing on the cost of running a summer camp and how much must be charged to break even.

Anecdotal story time……………………….
At the extreme edge of my small town there is a small Chabad operation with a little shul attached. In all these years I have never been there, as It is far too long a walk and they don’t hold weekday services.
During my shloshim for Mrs. CTL, the Chabad rabbi was called for a tenth for a evening minyan at my regular Litvish minyan. He arrived, no questions asked. I had met him about town over the years, but have had no personal relationship.
Sunday at 6 PM my cell phone rang and it was the same local Chabad Rabbi. He had yarhzeit starting that night and could I come at 9PM for Maariv. I explained that I’d be 15 minutes further away at Mincha-Maariv starting at 8:15 and could not guaranty arriving for 9. He replied, I know we are on you way home, if you commit, we’ll hold off until you arrive, as we can’t start without 10.
Upon arrival, I noticed large Melech HaMoshiach posters on the rear wall of the shul. there were no posters or pictures that could be construed as icons on the eastern wall. I stood for Borchu, sat to learn, and made the appropriate responses and made recited the mourner’s kadish. At the end of the minyan, the rabbi asked if I could attend Monday morning. I replied that I’d be at my regular minyan and that my talis and tephiilin were there. He asked what time we daven and I said 6:30, he replied, great we’ll daven at 8. So Monday morning after my regular minyan, I drove to Chabad. I walked in sat down with a sefer to learn at a side table. I got up to look for a sefer on their shelves and the rabbi rushed over to assist, asked what I was looking for and handed me an all Hebrew and another with translation if I so desired. I thanked him and sat down. Turns out two others from my regular minyan showed up at 8 to make sure there was a minyan. They sat with me. I mentioned the posters on the wall and both said that they have seen the posters in the past, but never has one word been uttered when they were present about the Rebbe as Moshiach.
After minyan, I has a coffee and sat and talked with the Rabbi for half an hour. Again, no mention of the posters or the Moshiach agenda. I certainly did not question it.
If this is a belief within their sect, but no attempt is made to spread it, I cannot be publicly critical. Nothing about the minyan seemed odd, the men there were either old or college students, all with the same purpose in mind. To make sure there was a minyan for the Yahrzeit and daven.

This was not the in your face Chabad I know from the big cities.

We have 3 dogs and a cat. All are rescues.
We typically have had 5 dogs and 2 cats during the past 20+ years, but made a decision 5 years ago not to replace any pets that died as we aged.

@AAQ
Although a 5th generation American citizen in a family that reaches to the 9th generation (I descend from the 8th of 9 children in generation 2), I still consider myself a Jewish American, not an American Jew.

That said, it gives a different perspective than those whose parents or grandparents arrived either in the early 20th century or post WWII.

My paternal grandfather was drafted into the US Army in 1917 for the First World War. Uncles on both side served in the US forces during WWII, dad worked in Washington, DC during the war.

After the war, grandpa signed sponsorship papers for hundreds of survivors stating they had jobs in His clothing factory and housing in his buildings in Brooklyn. Although Litvish Misnagid, 90% of those sponsored were Satmar and the remainder Sanz. I still get a major welcome in Williamsburg and Kiryas Yoel and Kiryas Sanz.

As a Euro-traditional Jew who grew up OOT I never got all the factionalism in orthodoxy. I was brought up to respect and support all Jews as best we could.

That said, I am keenly aware that all worldly wealth and power is transient, and the peaceful prosperous life we have had for 150 years here in America is a gift from KBH and could disappear at any time. But, not having been forced to live in ghettos or the Pale and have professions officially closed to us. We learned how to live with the other Americans in Harmony (without giving up our Jewishness).
We are all better off when everyone in society prospers

@AAQ
Law firms in CT ( and most places) cannot have non-attorneys have an ownership interest in the firm.

My father had a regional chain of clothing stores from 1952 to the 1990s. Every full time employee received stock in the corporation each January. When the company was sold and dad retired at age 75 his employees received a lot of money for their shares (approx one-third of the sale proceeds).

Maternal grandfather was an eye doctor, no employees in his professional practice.
Paternal grandfather was clothing manufacturer, but used contractor factories. His design and sales staff were partners in the business. Grandma was bookkeeper, other partners’ wives were rest of office staff.

@Akuperma
I am a lifelong Democrat, my parents and grandparents were lifelong Democrats and my adult children are Democrats.
However, none of these 4 generations were ever ‘working people’ we are/were professionals and business people who believed in the betterment for all.

Even detestable Trump was a Democrat, til he figured out he could hoodwink the Republicans, hijack the party and line his pockets

@yungerman5

The OP was made in 2008. There was no Biden administration then. Your ignorance is not hidden by your hatred of Democrats.

@Sol82
Money spent keeping a sim-in-law in Kollel is an investment. Money spent to ensure others in Kollel can remain and the Kollel stays in operation is Tzedaka hand that is money well spent.
If the son-in-law remains such it is a good investment, if the marriage breaks up it was not a good investment.

@Neville
I have always contended that tax dollars should not be spent to pay for private education. I don’t care if it is secular or religious.
I worked hard to send my children to day schools then Yeshiva for high school (that was the choice here at the time). I also made sure that they got an education. And a profession that would allow them to send their children for Yeshiva education.
I have donated to and raised scholarship funds to assist those who cannot afford the tuition.
I believe it is the Jewish people’s obligation to fund our children’s religious education, not the general population.

One of the things we saw OOT that you don’t see in the big cities is that the Jewish community (of all denominations) kicks in to fund the local day schools and Yeshivos. They are constituent agencies of Federation and receive funds. Local Jews, frum and non-frum donate and support these institutions because they are vital to the community. When I was a teen, my next door neighbor was President of the ‘Reform Synagogue’ in town. He was a tire dealer and his wife an attorney. They gave enough each year to the local Lubavitch Day School and its boys and girls high schools to pay the costs of 10 students’ tuition. They didn’t practice what most here consider Judaism, but they believed its continued existence was crucial for the local Jewish community. In the 50-70s money could be raised from the non-frum community using Holocaust guilt. By the time those who were adults during WWII were reaching their late 70s and retiring to Florida this source of funding started dying off.

@AAQ
This is not the thread for a discussion of school vouchers (which I oppose, and for non-Jews are a way to pay for whites to attend private schools that are defacto segregated).
That said, the majority of special education funding for public schools is federal, not state money. The federal government did not saddle the states with an unfunded mandate in this case.
Local government has major problems with all the unfunded state mandates on public schools

I am a family law attorney (along with wills and trusts with decades of experience.
My daughter all have college degrees, and professional degrees and are licensed professionals.
That said, they did not leave with college debt. I would much rather pay to make sure they have earnings capability than to support a son in law in Kollel.

WHY?????
Having handled far too many divorces over the years for Jews and non-Jews. The young lady will never lose her education and earning ability if the marriage ends in divorce, but the investment in a son in-law learning in kollel is thrown away money after the divorce.

Let the man’s parents pay for it if they want to, but it is not the woman’s parents’ responsibility.

@Neville
Regarding liqour sales in CT
When I was a child, stores could be open 6 days a week from 8am til 11pm No one could own more than 2 stores. The mom&pop owners got the state to cut hours to 8am-8pm as they did not want to work so many hours.
in 2012 when Sunday sales were allowed, it was again the liquor store owners who asked that it only b 6 hours 11am-5pm to restrict how many hours these mom&pop operators worked in a week. The number of stores you can own increased to three. So for an eample, only 3 of the Costco locations in CT can sell booze.
You cannot buy wine in a grocery store, only beer.
Liqour store can n ow be open til 9, but most close at 8, with a few open Frioday and Saturday til 9.

The last vestige of the Blue laws, was that auto dealers could not be open on Sunday. The dealers fought this saying they were losing sales to NY, MA and RI. The law changed a few years back, but most dealers, not on the state borders remained closed on Sunday.

I was born and grew up in New Haven, where you still don’t find car dealers open Friday nights. Back then the dealers were almost all Jewish and Friday night was reserved for family, not business. Today, most dealers are not Jewish, but the closed Friday night tradition continues.

@Neville
The CT Blue Laws had far more to do with business activity and public displays of affection on the Sabbath, then liquor sales.
They were done away with starting in 1909, 1979 did away with ban on Sunday retailing and 2012 allowed Sunday liquor sales.
When I was a kid, my family’s retail stores were open Sunday and closed Saturday in compliance with the laws.
CT Liquor store owners opposed Sunday openings, as we have no chains, mom&pop didn’t want to work 7 days per week.

@Lakewhut
Regarding Danbury Baptists and their letter to the federal government seeking redress.

CT (my home for almost 70 years) like most of New England was settled by the Puritans (Congregational Churches). Each village had a parish and the minister served as head of government and tax collector. This continued to the middle of the 1800s, long after the USA was a country and the US Constitution in force.
My small town has 4 distinct neighborhoods, each was a parish and still has an active Congregational Church bearing the name.
Until the early 1900s, any religious institution wanting to operate in CT had to get a Charter from the State of Connecticut. My shul received its charter in 1881. My FIL is buried in a local Jewish cemetery that received its charter in 1918.

This issuing of charters (and requirement thereof) established State approved religions in direct violation of the First Amendment.
BTW, males who wished to vote in the State of CT before approx 1850 had to be members of the Congregational Church in their Parish and current with tax obligations. Another violation of the First Amendment.

@Neville
My fiscal conservatism is not just from my personal pocket, but society as a whole.
That’s why I believe in user fees, such as tolls (which don’t exist in CT) so the user pays for the upkeep of the roads.

As for the orthodox synagogues of my youth. They did not have mechitzas, they had balconies.

@coffee
I haven’t been called a ‘lefty’ since I was protesting the Viet Nam War and burning my draft card more than 50 years ago.
Yes, I am a proud Democrat, but that doesn’t mean I support every idea floated by every Democrat. At the State and National Conventions I am viewed as old fashioned and right wing.
I am socially liberal but fiscally conservative. I am anti-gun and believe no private citizen unless a sworn law enforcement officer or member of the National Guard (the well regulated militia mentioned in the 2nd Amendment) should possess a gun.

I have watched American Orthodoxy move to the right over the past 60 years. While I may not find all the moves to my taste, I support the institutions.
I am one of the final generation of American Euro-Traditional Jews. What was called Orthodox in my youth. We were the children of business owners and professionals. Many attended public school and Yeshiva as well as university and professional schools. What we didn’t do as a whole is become professional Jews, deriving our income from Jewish organizations, instead we fund those salaries and positions.

@Mentsch1
Since our dogs range in weight from 6-13 lbs, the risk of them eating us is not a concern.

Send Cruz back to the country if his birth

@coffeeaddict
I don’t decide which ‘news’ articles to post
I merely answered the OP’s question

@lakewhut
The OP did not ask a question about the current POTUS

@zeruth
I voluntarily had two Covid-19 vaccinations and three boosters including the bivalent. I don’t allow non-vaccinated into my home of office.

@americanyeshivish

Better the shooter is dead at the beginning of an intended shooting spree, having killed him/herself,

Take all guns away in the USA unless the possessor is a member of the National Guard, law enforcement or corrections (our well organized militia, satisfying the 2nd Amendment).