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Welcome to Family Court and Custody battles:
Father seeks emergency custody of the daughters who are in the custodial custody of the mother.
Judge asks mother: “when was the last time your daughters were in school on a regular basis?”
Mother: “Your honor, the teachers have been on strike and we have no idea when they’ll return. The scholl was behind on payroll.”
Judge: Why haven’t you enrolled them elsewhere?
Mother: I can’t get them into another school midyear.
Father’s Attorney: “Your honor, that’s educational neglect” There’s plenty of room in the schools where the father lives. We seek immediate physical custody for the remainder of the school year.
Judge: Motion Granted, the minor children are to be delivered to the father’s custody and enrolled in his neighborhood school within 48 hours.’
Gavel Pounds, Mother cries, Father and attorney smile.
I have practiced family law for many decades, and scenes like this do happen. I also have had to defend parents against Dept of Children and Family actions to remove from the home children not attending school regularly.What no one has mentioned is that the parents of these girls who have not been in school could be charged with ‘Education Neglect’ and have issues with Child Protective Services. These students not receiving an education should have been enrolled in another school. The government will say that if you can not find a private school that is acceptable you must enroll in public school or have an approved home schooling plan. Just to keep them home long term is NOT the answer.
It dies not show that religion changes. It shows that a particular college that has a religious affiliation changed its method of operation. Nothing in Church Canon changed and the religion does not mandate separation of the sexes in academia.
Chances are that the college:
#1 needed to compete for students, so became co-ed in order to survive
#2 wanted to apply for state and/or federal grants and could no longer discriminate based on gender and get the moneyYour comment “compare that to Jewish Frumkeit” is not only wrong, but particularly condescending and mean. There are many Frum day schools that are mixed gender enrollment in the US
I can’t answer for Joseph, but as a Justice of the Peace I have performed marriages for non-Jews. No intermarriages, no mention of religion or deity.
I doubt it. You only pay for a semester at a time, so when they announced the change you din’t have prepaid courses due you.
It is NOT all female even in the daytime>>>>>>>>>>>>.
Again, copy and pasted from their website:
“I thought GCU was a women’s college. Is it?
Georgian Court became fully coeducational in 2013. All degree and certificate programs during the day and evening, as well as our residence halls, extracurricular activities, and athletics programs, are now open to both women and men.”Direct quote from the college website: “Georgian Court University, is a Catholic co-ed university offering liberal arts college degree programs on campus and online from Lakewood, New Jersey.”
CO-ED means males and females..in court you could explain whatever you were trying to say, but the facts speak for themselves, the college announces that it is co-ed.
Sorry, once they admitted males they are no longer all-female. They may offer some female only courses, but that is not the same thing.
If you sent your daughter to an all female college, and she went to the library, she would not expect to find male students there. In this case, since males are enrolled in the college, they will be on campus, in the library, etc.Then it is no longer all female.
You didn’t expect that? I had planned to leave before the shul kiddish because we had guests coming for lunch who did not daven at our shul. After the announcements I wa obligated to remain and had to send my nephew to the house to inform Mrs. CTL of an hour delay.
In today’s email was a bill for the kiddish.
“He doesn’t have to be your lawyer”
WOW…a criminal confesses to the prosecutor and under your theory the prosecutor could not testify.
Actually, he can. There is no atty/client privilege and the hearsay exception of admission against interest would apply to allow the testimony in.I don’t practive criminal law, but having helped daughter and son in law study for the Bar exams last year I reviewed all kinds of thinbgs I haven’t dealt with in 30+ years
The days of same sex Catholic or other colleges in the US is long gone.
Your impression of what classes you must take is not correct. It varies by college. One can seek an exemption, but it is not automatic.
The other problem is that small Catholic Colleges often have opening and closing ceremonies for the semester in the Church Hall. My daughter’s college responded to my objection by moving these ceremonies to the gymnasium these past 3 years.ZD…you don’t quite portray Atty/Client privilege accurately.
The lawyer MUST be your attorney for the privilege to attach. Just telling something to any member of the bar is NOT protected. If someone wants to have a specific legal discussion with me, I always say ‘give me a dollar as a retainer to establish confidentiality’
Also, the discussion must take place in privacy and cannot have anyone present except employees of the attorney or their is no expectation of privacy and the privilege does not attach. I have been know to send spouses , relatives and client’s employees from the office before speaking to a client.I learned that I was sponsoring Kiddush without having been asked to do so. I guess I’ll get an invoice this week in the mail
Great question…………….
Mrs. CTL is 15 years older than her next younger sibling.
Youngest Ms. CTL is 9 years younger than next older sibling.
The 29 year old got a cell phone when she got a drivers license so that she could call for assistance if necessary. She had limited computer access and it was supervised.
Youngest Ms. CTL has had a cell phone since she was 8 for safety reasons. She spend great amounts of time on the computer for school. We fought with the principal when she was in 5th grade when her general studies teachers required students to follow them on Twitter. We did not want our child having a twitter account. Principal sided with the teacher, I called a meeting of the Board of Directors (just happen to be a member for 30 years). Board sided with us, Principal and teacher told to change plan or job. They changed their plan.
Daughter is in college now. She must submit all her work electronically. Many seminars take place via SKYPE. When classes are cancelled because of winter weather, professors will send assignments to be done via text or email.We also have to face the fact that even if we don’t want children to watch TV, most shows are available on their computers. Laptops and internet access are a requirement of the day schools, not just public schools.
ZD………………….
Apparently you never took a comparative religion course in college.Episcopalians (church of England, Anglican, etc) have Priests and are Protestants. The religion was founded when King Henry VIII broke with the pope when Henry wanted still another divorce and to remarry and the Pope refused. Henry made his own church and confiscated all the lands and valuables of the Catholic church in England. These priests may marry.
Eastern Orthodox churches also have Priests.
Catholic and Episcopalians have confession. Yes, Catholics confess to things that are not ‘committed acts’ but impure thoughts.
WTP…………..
Youngest Ms. CTL attends a Catholic College in a special BSRN program that has a specific forensic major…not offered elsewhere. The college has a 6 credit theology requirement for undergraduates. I discussed this with the college president before we allowed her attendance. They offer non-Catholics the option to take any 6 credits in the Philosophy department. Daughter took 6 credits in Jewish studies. Professor was a Rabbi, NOT a Catholic.
BTW>>>I grew up in New Haven, my parents and older siblings were from NY. I didn’t understand why so many of my Jewish friends had mothers who had graduated Albertus Magnus College. (My mother graduated Hunter College in 1940). Seems this was the only local college women could attend in the 1930s and 40s and get a BA or BS degree. Jewish students were exempt from religion classes. Yale was male only and the other local schools such as Quinnipiac were only 2 year schools back then. The state colleges were 2 year Normal Schools at that time. It all changed after WWII.The Title of the thread says “in American Law”
An American courtroom is no place to introduce halacha…preserve First SAmendment rights
Not to worry, it doesn’t work:
My Grandfather’s ClockMy grandfather’s clock was too large for the shelf
So it stood ninety years on the floor
It was taller by half than the old man himself
Though it weighed not a pennyweight more
It was bought on the morn of the day that he was born
And was always his treasure and pride
But it stopped, short never to go again
When the old man died
Ninety years without slumbering
His life seconds numbering
It stopped, short never to go again
When the old man died
My grandfather said that of those he could hire
Not a servant so faithful he found
For it wasted no time and had but one desire
At the close of each week to be wound
And it kept in its place, not a frown upon its face
And its hands never hung by its side
But it stopped short, never to go again
When the old man diedTelling the husband has nothing to do with clergy privilege in a court of law and compelling the clergy to testify against the congregant
Again the neighbor could not know that the incident was discussed in the confessional unless either the priest or confessor had breached the confidentiality…if so, no privilege exists.
If the confession was overheard from outside the confessional, the expectation of privacy was violaed and the confession would not be admissable.
Diversity is NOT racist if you are basing in on determinants such as religion, gender, national origion, education or income levels.
It may be racist if race is a determining factor.
I don’t think it unethical to create groups that mirror society for some things. For example, a manufacturer assembles a focus group that mirrors society’s makeup to test reaction to a product.
Joseph…
If he neighbor had knowledge of the confession than the confidentiality would have already been breached and no privilege would applyZD………….
I don’t practice in NY, BUT
The Clergy privilege has to do with CRIMINAL prosecution. It has NOTHING o do with civil proceedings such as a divorce.Please don’t mix apples and oranges
Everybody:
PLEASE do NOT confuse rules of Criminal Procedure and civil actions.
there is NO Clergy privilege in Civil trials.
Yes,
I know members of two families, originally Jonas in Gemany who became Jones in America. There were also a number of Jewish Smith families in New Haven where I grew up.From my long ago classes on Criminal Procedure:
“Rule 506 (Communications to Clergy ) of the Federal Rules of Evidence provides:(a) Definitions. As used in this rule:
(1) A “clergyman” is a minister, priest, rabbi, or other similar functionary of a religious organization, or an individual reasonably believed so to be by the person consulting him.
(2) A communication is “confidential” if made privately and not intended for further disclosure except to other persons present in furtherance of the purpose of the communication.
(b) General rule of privilege. A person has a privilege to refuse to disclose and to prevent another from disclosing a confidential communication made by the person to a clergyman in his professional character as a spiritual adviser.
(c) Who may claim the privilege. The privilege may be claimed by the person, by his guardian or conservator, or by his personal representative if he is deceased. The clergyman may claim the privilege on behalf of the person. His authority so to do is presumed in the absence of evidence to the contrary.”State Laws Vary………..
In twenty-five states, the clergyman–communicant statutory privilege does not clearly indicate who holds the privilege. In seventeen states, the penitent’s right to hold the privilege is clearly stated. In only six states, both a penitent and a member of the clergy are expressly allowed by the statute to hold the privilege.Jonas from back in Germany may have become Jones in the USA…simple one letter change. Our Braun lineage from Germany became Brown in late 19th century NY.
Read my story later in the thread.
Your words are offensive, not always accurate or true and you owe observant Jewish Joneses an apology.
Then why are everyone trying to keep up with the Joneses?
BTW>>>>Maternal great grandmother was born a Braun, turned down an offer of marriage from a Jones in 1896 and married a Schwarz. She was quite a colorful character who lived until she was 98. Jones died in the Spanish Flu epidemic of 1918 and great grandmother took in his orphan children and raised them as her own. Frum Yekke Joneses in early 20th century NYC. In the Vaterland the name had been Jonas. In America a “jona’ was considered to be cursed and bring bad luck, getting employment proved difficult and changing one letter solved the problem Jakob Jonas from Germany became Jacob Jones of New York.
WTP………………..
Thank you.
Yes the tents will be rainproof. They also will have floors and be elevated 6″ above ground level to avoid any water problems. We’ve much experience with tents/simchas on our grounds.Are you invited? As far as I am concerned all my CR friends have an invitation. That said, we all know that Mrs. CTL and the Kallah will make those decisions. It is Poppa’s job to pay and shep nachas.
And for the young ladies asking all the questions about shadcanim and shidduchim. The couple were introduced by mutual friends. This makes all 5 CTL children engaged/married without a professional shadchan. Ms. CTL did not like a single boy the shadchan arranged in Australia, came back to the USA for the spring semester, told Mrs. CTL that she would not be doing anything until the summer break and by March 1 a friend fixed her up, by Pesach we met the boy. His parents are flying in right after Lag B’omer and an early August wedding is in the works….
Thank you Joseph………………
This is the last of the children to marry. Looks like the CTL compound will be the scene of yet another chasunah, but this time the weather will permit everything to be held on our grounds. No split between ceremony and luncheon here and an evening affair in NY. Summertime and tents for 300+Geodie613 will appreciate this….
The main meal will be a brai
Biltong will be cut and go into our smokehouse soonWant to make the new in-laws feel at home, expect about 20 will make the trip and stay with us.
Geordie613
Yes I git to Adath Yeshurun. I don’t know if I met Yekke’s grandparents. I was there quite a bit in the late 70s. In fact I was engaged to a girl from Yeoville, her father was a retail jeweler…watchmaker by trade. But they were actually Litvaks arriving in Joburg via England in the 1930s. My friends who I always stayed with lived a good half hour walk from Yeoville and davened at the Kollel in those days, also a long walk. His wife was from CT and he was a native Saffer.
It is very strange, as the last single Ms. CTL is about to announce her engagement to a 20 something young man from South Africa. When we met him recently, a bit of Jewish geography elicited the fact that i had met his grandparents in April 1978 in Rosemont.
AviK……………….
WRONG AGAIN.
When I was subject to the draft, the college student deferral had already ended and I’d have been taken immediately after high school ended in June. NO time to join ROTC in college.Furthermore, I knew many former ROTC members who went to Viet Nam as officers, a number were killed there, ROTC was no guaranty of a cushy job at the Pentagon.
I don’t have a BA degree…so the government would not have paid for it! I have B.Sc., M.B.A. and J.D. degrees.
I did not compare 2017 USA and Tsarist Russia (which ceased to exist 100 years ago. I compared a mandatory draft in 1960/70s USA and the Tsar’s draft. Other posters mentioned the Israeli Draft.
Your comparison to a murderer bribing a judge is simply twisted logic and no such words came out of my mouth or fingers.
I specifically posted that the donation to the Doctor’s hospital construction project was approved my my Rav in my circumstances at a specific time and place. I was not alive in WWII and could not extrapolate based on this. My father and uncle volunteered to serve in the US Army in WWII, they did nit wait to be drafted. The USA was attacked before declaring War in 1941 and our response was self defense. Viet Nam never attacked the USA, we were interlopers.AviK…………….
you make no sense at all.What anti-semitic left made which exams optional and for whom?
I’m politically left, I teach in law school, my students did not have optional exams, nor did nay others in the school. I am NOT anti-semitic nor are any of the other faculty I know.
Still have the youngest Ms. CTL in college. No exams were cancelled or made optional. Her professors are both left and right wing. Her college banned all paid staff from discussing politics with students except in Poltical Science courses. The only one of her professors I considered anti-semitic was an irreligious Jew teaching chemistry. The provost backed daughter up on excused time off for Yuntif.
AviK……………
I went to a public inner city high school from 7:30 AM to 11:30 AM then Yeshiva from noon to 8 PM (along with about 15 other frum boys).50% of the boys in my high school class were drafted after graduation and sent to Viet Nam. 43/125 came home in body bags.
AviK……………
I’ll happily be alive having made a $5000 donation to a hospital construction project that kept me from harm’s way.This was a case of Pikuach Nefesh and approved by my Rav at the time.
How many running from the Tsar’s draft bribed their way across borders?
How many trying to run from the Nazi’s wish they could have bribed their way out?How many were rescued by paying bribes?
I don’t appreciate your holier than thou attitude. You weren’t to be sent to face communist guns, swamps, jungles agent orange and drugs
Geordie613…………
It must be nice to be so young.
I was long married, and eldest child was your age in 1985. Somewhere in our basement we propably have that tape in a box cleared out of his room when he went off to Yeshiva for high school
Ms. CTL lives half her year in the south of France, the other half here in the USA. We discussed this on the phone today and she informed me that in her opinion (she does not expect Le Pen to win) living under Le Pen would be preferable to living under profiteering, dishonest, Trump and his family who are ripping off the US taxpayers
We’ve had this discussion before in other threads………………………
If you want one and can afford it, fine. If not, don’t be pressured to go into debt for it.
Interesting talk about leaving countries to avoid the draft.
Mrs. CTL’s zaidy fled the Pale of Settlement under cover of night to avoid conscription into the Tsar’s army for 25 years.
Older brother of CTL gained landed immigrant status in Cnada to avoid the draft during Viet Nam war in the 1960s
CTL paid a $5,000 donation to the hospital wing being built by the doctor on Selective Service Board #9 in New Haven, CT to get his 4F and avoid Viet Nam
CTL serves on the New Englan Regional Selective Service Appeals Board and if a US draft is re-instituted he will do his best to keep those who don’t want to go out.
That said, CTL’s father and uncles all volunteered for the US Armed Serviced during WWII and helped liberate what remained of European Jewry.
CTL’s Zaidy was drafted into the US Army during WWI, but was posted in Atlanta, never went overseas.
CTL has made a decision that he can do more economically for EY by being successful in the USA and funding those in EY who are not living economically viable lives, than moving the whole family and retiring in EY.
We have a home in EY and children and grandchildren have lived there while attending Yeshiva and Seminary in EY. We visit each year, but have no burning desire to live there until after Moshiach arrives and the political infighting ends.
I prefer vanilla flavor to chocolate.
I never order a chocolate ice cream or eat a plain chocolate bar.
Chocolate is ok if it is used as a delivery media for nuts…thus a chocolate bar containing almonds is just fine.Mrs. CTL loves to bake, I repeatedly ask her not to use chocolate frosting as then I won’t eat the cake. She says that’s why she deliberately uses chocolate frosting
My paternal Litvak Misnagid side says Abesther…..
Once at a Chabad led meeting I used the term and was accused of having some Hasdidic roots, when I finished laughing I told the accuser that it was the Hasidim that were copying a litvish term.
BTW>>>we also say Tayrah
Lightbrite……
In many cases they do include Chabah Mikvaot.
For example: I went to the OU website and used its ‘synagogue locator’ I chose the state of Kansas. There were three results:
An OU member synagogue
The Chabad Mikvah
The Community Mikvah.You must remember the OU is a member organization and synagogues pay a head tax. If a community has a member synagogue with its own mikvak the OU would be doing that member a disservice by also posting a non-member mikvah that could take revenue away from the member organization.
Slightly over 25 years ago I was President of an OU member dues paying shul in a small community that had 7 orthodox synagogues…..4 were OU members, 1 belonged to Young Israel, 1 to Chabad and one was independent. We, member synagogues would be very upset if the OU database led prospective members to non-member synagogues.
Today, when I look at the synagogue locator for that city, it shows both member and non-member synagogues, but puts a large logo on the member congregations.
That city has both a community mikvah and a Chabad mikvah. The community mikvah is open to all. The Chabad mikvah is attached to a private home and is only open to the Chabad community (and in rare circumstances their guests). The Chabad mikvah is not on the OU list.No, it was about 10 years before that Governor assumed office
One of the DILs is an accountant by training, but works in the family law firm. She read this thread and figured out that if the CTL relatives, machatunim, friends and neighbors did not MISH on Pesach we could have served 840 fewer meals this Pesach.
I said that would both be boring and have deprived Mrs. CTL and myself great pleasure in life.
Joseph………………
I honestly don’t know, but Yekkes did business in the German Gentile world and certainly would have had to conform to their time habits.
Non-Hareidi Jews attended German Gymnasiums (e.g. Einstein) and would have always been seated in class before Herr Doktorr Professor entered.My niece’s German Jewish family settled in St’ Louis about 130 years ago. WQhen she married my nephew the wedding was held in the Missouri Club with a brought in Kosher caterer. Her parents, grand parents and great grandparents had all been members along with the major German Gentile families such as Busch from Budweiser Breweries. The German community in St. Louis to this day is totally mixed Jewish and Gentile and functions in harmony.
Her family is full of judges and many politicians from both the Missouri side and Illinois side of the Mississippi River were invited. The Illinois Governor was late, but the affair was not delayed one minute for his arrival. The German-American merchants and politicians were all seated promptly before the stated time on the invitations.
As I’ve posted before, my German side arrived in NY in 1868, there was no one left to ask what was learned in Germany, the last known relation on that side left in 1880.
My Litvak side arrived at Castle Garden, NY in 1872, by 1890 all relatives had either arrived in NY or were living in Manchester, England. B”H no known relative was affected by the Shoah.
Joseph…………..
My maternal side is Yekke, arriving in NY from Bavaria in 1868I was raised that if you are not 20 minutes early you are late.
You arrive for an 8PM invitation at 7:40 and park the car. At 7:57, you exit the car, check to make sure your clothing, hair, etc. are all correctly straight, hostess gift in hand, you walk to the front door and at exactly 8PM you ring the bell.
Someone who is habitually late is not a Yekke, he is an aberration.
I’ve stayed away from this thread for years, but now will put in my observation.
From the Yekke side of my family….
Heimish is ‘real’ unpolished, not putting in airs or false sophistication. A taste of ‘real’ life where a momma raising multiple children without servants doesn’t worry if the kugel has a few well done crusty edges and doesn’t look like a picture in Gourmet magazine.
The Heimish bakery has things that taste good, not look good without taam.Heimish people do and make, not have their servants do it for them and let dinner guests rave about the the hostess’ cooking.
Maine: Portland
Bangor, also has a MikvehI remember when both cities had multiple orthodox synagogues and day schools…back in the days when shoes were made in New England and not imported from China
When referring to the Rabbi of our synagogue, I say Rabbi….last name
When calling the house or synagogue office, I announce myself: This is Atty CTL, may I speak to the rabbi please.
When he is in the privacy of the CTL hot tub or sauna or swimming pool, I call him by his first name.
He’s more than 30 years younger than me.