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@musser zoger
How can anyone realize “understand” that they are human when all that is presented is this image of a malach.
But hey! As long as they keep selling no one will dare try and change it.
Maybe the nerves come from being expected to make a huge life decision based on a 2-4 hour scripted encounter.
Doesn’t Oz Vehadar Levusha have a haskama from Rav Bin Laden?
To the OP,
How are you any different than the parent who determains that his child is to be a star athlete or world class doctor? And then pushes to the point of the child breaking.
You rob the chilid of their true path, and any chance for happiness. But I guess nothing is going to stand in the way of your “nachas”
Can’t wait to see how quickly this devolves into racisim and xenophobia.
But I guess when Eisav Soneh Es Yaakov is the prevailing attitude we can’t really expect much different.
You aren’t going to get this kid back in to the “cage” of his old lifestyle. Once you have experienced certain things, you can’t go back to the old status quo.
Best case scenario is either him defecting to (in your eyes) a lesser form of “yidishkite” or becoming a well adjusted adult with no use for organized religion.
Keep the lines of communication open and keep trying to develop an adult relationship with him, it will work wonders.
How sad that someone can be so concerned about the smallest arthopod in their water, but not care about holding the door for someone, or treating someone with a lesser level of religious observance with a modicum of respect.
What does it say about “frumkeit” if such high levels of learning don’t teach you how to be a decent human being?
We don’t value being a mench, we value external trappings and acts that you can quantify that show how devout you are.
If you are doing the sedarim maybe you can use that free time to find something else you like to learn instead.
“You cant go forcing something if it’s just not right”
Hatzlacha Rabbah!
Enjoy poverty for you and your children and their children.
The money has run out and unless more “frumma yidden” start becoming professionals, the holy neighborhoods you live in will look more and more like the shtetle than you ever cared to imagine.
@Feif Un +1
@Andere Kuk; ommitted information can range from certain gedolim having studied classic literature, or reading newspapers, or being classical music fans.
If you can find a copy of “Making Of A Gadol” (good luck) you will understand what I’m saying.
@Andere Kuk
If you knew the things whitewashed from other “biographies” it was a reasonable assumption that a similar strategy would be pursued.
But again, because it was such common knowledge and even Rav Nossom himself would talk about it…there was no way for Artscroll to leave it out.
Has anyone entertained the possibility that maybe the son is reading all of this and staying ahead of the parents? If I were him its what I would do.
That is a nice tactic to use. Say that anything you disagree with is a viewpoint from “enemies of torah”
Fact remains is that pertinent information that humanizes the Gedolim is left out because it does not fit a certain world view.
As a Chicago resident I was terrified that a similar fate would befall R’Nosson Tzvi Finkel. Luckily his backround was such common knowledge that they couldn’t whitewash it. In fact some people say that he became a godol inspite of his backround…I say it was because of his backround that gave him the perspective to accomplish what he did.
Bottom line, these books give off the impression that people are gedolim from birth rather than it being a journey with human challanges…to publish otherwise at the very least is a lie of ommission and at worst, very dangerous due to it creating an impossible standard.
None of these are true biographies anyway. These are “hagiographies” where no unflattering information is published about the person.
Artscroll has been known to exclude information that they deem either irrelevant or contrary to what they consider the “gadlus” of the person. They get away with this by claiming that “these are not meant to be a historical account, but rather to inspire the reader.” I guess that’s what passes as emmess these days.
Only person who published a book that could be considered a real biography got his book banned.
?? ?????? ?????? by Journeys
Chuckas Hagoyim
Basically..when a trend or activity that does not violate halacha but just looks too fun or modern
It is then branded as Chuckas HaGoyim
Nope not trolling
Accordng to multiple Rishonim, belief in an ancient universe does not automatically brand me a non believer.
I find that decades of peer reviews science and carbon dating support the conclusion that the planet is a wee bit older that 5772 years.
But that’s just me.
Speaking from the perspective of your son @writeorwrong
There is very very little you can do that will have a positive effect on his religious observance.
The decision he made to leave Yeshiva was a very liberating one and trying to get him to go back is like telling a recently released inmate that he should go back to prision because all of his inmate friends miss him.
As someone who went through what your son did I can tell you that it is more than likely he will not go back into the cage of religious life.
The baby has been thrown out with the bath water because he has realized it is all bathwater. By having this wide divide between religious jews even, parents and schools have subconciously implanted the idea that if you arent “exactly what we are” you might as well be a non jew. Even though you will protest to the contrary and talk about that “one modern orthodox family that you know” you know it is true.
We’ve taken this divide and conquer attitude and deemed which ever group we belong to as the “gatekeepers of the mesorah” and it’s a sad and sick joke.
All you can do at this point is be his mother and not someone trying to cheerlead him back into a life that he doesnt find fuffilling and worthwhile to him at this point in his life.
That being said, there is still a chance to help him develop into a healthy and functioning adult. Offer to help get him into a decent college or trade school (one that isnt attached to a yeshiva) and tell him you want to see him succeed and fufill his full potential.
The street life can do some serious damage but from what it sounds like he remains on the fringes of some of the really nasty charachters. Try to show him that being aimless is frowned upon even in non religious society.
There are very few reasons kids who leave will “go back into the cage” but one of them is missing a close relationship with family.
Sometimes they can come back to the fold but not with a full heart, you need to ask yourself if you want him to come back if it’s just to make you and your husband happy.
Black Coat
White Shoes
Black Hat
Cadillac
Yeah..the boy’s a time bomb!
Ummm…we’re losing gedolim because all of the people we call gedolim are extremely up there in age. If we were losing gedolim in their 50’s and 60’s you might have a point.
But calling that a sign for moshiach is just a self fulfilling prophecy.
Nah…not a troll..just someone who can pass as one of you when I need to.
And my posts are insighhtful,hillarious, and sarcastic.
Plus wouldn’t this place be boring if it were just a bunch of people who think exactly like you?
@WIY
I said shows on Friday night.
He is currently on tour with at least one other band right now so he would not be going on stage until much later in the night. He also used to do this back when he was wearing the costume and beard. He also toured during the 3 weeks/9 days back then too.
Have you been to any of his shows recently to know for sure that he does not have his head covered in some manner?
Ill repeat my original statement. The second he schedules performances for after candlelighting on Friday nights…that’s when you can all write him off..until then you should check out the interview he did with Aish.com
@BPT
Weren’t you at the Asifa?
“Yeshivish Klal Yisroel” is the only one that matters.
Everyone else are a bunch of hellenists who want to eat chazir on yom haatzmaut while updating their blogs and writting letters of admiration to R’Slifkin
How about she focuses on the important issues?
Like earning enough money so he can sit and drink coffee all day in front of a sefer while looking down on people who work for a living.
People are skeptical of the mental health community for two reasons
1: The social stigma of being “crazy” or “damaged good” this can easily cause you to be dropped to second or third tier status on the shidduch circut
2: The commonly held belief that all psychiatrists/counslers/psychotherapists have an agenda to get frum people to abandon yiddishkeit. Only those therapists that answer directly to a Rav are kosher..and even in those instances you still run into the stigma issue.
I think the litmus test should be to check his website, the instant you start seeing tourdates for shows on Friday night..thats when you can all start saying “I told you so”
Pretty sure his Neshama was in better shape then the rest of us in this moshav leitzim..
She should leave him…the speakers at the next “Asifa” need material to help sell web filters.
Nope..not buying it.
The world has seen similar/worse political unrest and more blatant manifestations of real antisemitisim (what we have nowadays that keeps the ADL and $PLC in business is not even close to what our grandparents endured in Europe or various Arab countries)
The only difference is that now we have things like the 24 hour news cycle that magnify every single “news story” in the world.
Tommorrow will be another day in the 56 billion year history of this planet
I actually admire R’Slifkin for the way he didn’t let the Da’as Torah machine just steamroll him into contrition.
He presented legit views and theories on issues regarding science and Torah. Just because some of those ideas dont fit into the “Charedi narrative” doesn’t give the right for some askanim with an agenda to brand him a non believer.
The whole debate doesnt pass the smell test, especially the timing of it all (Pashkavalim going up erev Yom Kippur)
anywhoo..I’m wondering if they are calling it Shaas Shmad because they are geniunely concerned about limud hatorah and it’s ability to “protect” the nation..or is it because it shows an entire population that there is life as a frum jew outside of the beis medrish. And like rumspringa with the Amish, it offers its members a choice (albeit a slightly different one)
How dare those shiftless bums care about how they present themselves to a shidduch system that is based on criteria bordering on luncacy!
/eyeroll
In a world where there is plenty to worry about, you guys sure pick some weird/pointless battles to fight.