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*thumbs up* +1
Mine favorite teacher just really loved children
and I mean “really loved them”
In fact, he was fired because of it
Vhamevin Yavin
I wouldn’t until you are married and your kids have long term committments to their schools and even then you run some risks.
Anyone who tries to make a living entertaining “frum yidden” has to deal with bans, threats, expullsion, and general thuggery from askanim with an agenda.
Like Moshe Rabbeniu and Avraham Avinu you will get nothing but trouble for your efforts.
You should not feel guilty for feeling things that every normal teenager feels.
Shaming teens into repressing certain feelings has very negative consequences later in life.
Whether or not certain material on the internet is appropriate is a different question. But do not fall into the pit of self loathing just because you admit to feeling something that I’m sure most bais yakkov girls do feel but are afraid to talk about.
And do you agree with the author of that blog regarding the sincerity of this thread?
“I find it fascinating how many Christian values have slipped into what people think is normative Jewish opinion.”
Thank you @CharlieHall!!!
But most people here would argue that “This is the mesorah from Sinai!!”
I guess it helps to be completly ignorant of history.
You are correct
However, Dovbear has written about this before and most people in this “Oilam” use Sefer VaYikra as a fig leaf for their hate.
The word Toeava refers to some other behaviors that people in the frum community seem to sanction time and time again.
“Compounding the problem is the fact that frum society will call a bachelor with a career and his own home a “boy” even if he’s in his thirties.”
Well @RebDoniel this is because you can make no “real” contribution to yidishkite until you and your future wife start popping out the next generation. Because until you’ve dealt with the stress of living a “real” heimishe life, your opinions and accomplishments are the equivlent of a child getting an “A” on a history test…i.e. meaningless in the long run.
The infantilization of young people (especially women) in the frum community is absolutly tragic.
You should seek a community where you are appreciated as you are and not what you arent. Quit seeking the approval of people/a community that dont consider you a member of Klal Yisroel in good standing lechatchila.
*sigh*
The fact that someone can be so clueless about a huge part of life..especially something that BY and Seminary are grooming you for as your primary function in life is just really sad.
The infantilization of females in the frum community would be laughable if it wasn’t tragic.
The rest of America can care less who runs that cesspool
#newyorkisntthecenteroftheworld
It came from the same place as the rest of “authentic Judaisim” European peasantry
This goes to something I said in a previous thread about gossip. It applies here, as people are always looking for “info” on someone or something no matter how slightly out of of the ordinary
“If you really want to get at the “heart” of the problem it’s this.
Gossip in the “frum” community is the replacement for television and outside media.
When everyone in a frum community is living pretty much the same lives and in close proximity to one another, any variation from the norm (no matter how small) becomes an item to be discussed and disected with little regard for how the information warps and spreads.
Throw in the added element of believing you are doing the right thing by talking about people behind their back and all of the sudden the rules of Loshon Hara go out the window.
If people just focused on their own lives and stopped looking at others for their “entertainment” maybe the problem would no longer exist.”
Or just exercize some self control…
Lol “Hashkafic difference”
Clearly we have gone off the deep end when we think the type of “electronic device” that we have in our pocket is an indicator of our level of devotion.
For the record, I have an iPhone 5
As Daniel Tosh once said
“Who cares if gay marriage is legal…it’s not like G-d is going to let them into heaven”
I’m still waiting on R’ Yehuda Levins “well articulated and reasoned response”
Pretty big plot hole..if you ask me.
You do realize that the “Jewish Music” we have nowadays is just European Folk Music? And guess who invented/listened to/played that..it wasn’t the Jews.
This notion of “Jewish Music” is such a misnomer. We adapt things from other cultures and then pretend that it came down from Har Sinai with the rest of the Mesorah.
One can take issue with the secular pop music of today, but do not fool yourself into thinking that you aren’t listening to “goyish” music on some level.
Thanks! there was more to it but it didnt make it past the mods.
Just more infantilization of the females.
This attitude of “boys are evil/yucky” is cute when girls are 8 but when that attitude is reinforced daily until age 19 it can have a very damaging effect.
edited
“Vogue – I can understand the teddy bears – they’re cute and cuddly.
But imaginary friends??? That sounds a bit over the top for that age group IMHO.”
Actually, the way females are infantilized it doesnt suprise me.
That is until they need to be working 80 hours a week while hubby learns all day 🙂
It’s not cynicism..it’s reality.
Did anyone else notice how the groom wasnt smiling? Nor were any of the female faces that somehow snuck into a picture.
Why do some people treat weddings with the solmeness of Yom Kippur and the depressed emotions of Tisha B’av?
Frum world does hysterics better than the Italians do pasta.
It’s part of our genetic makeup.
@Oh Shreck!
Your understanding of human nature is laughable.
Women have that same exact “yetzer harah” they are just slighty more subtle about it.
Two money quotes from Rebdoniel
” And sadly, we know morally the situations such self-proclaimed mumchim on giyur have found themselves in.”
and
“The fanciful and unhalakhic opinions I see in some circles never fails to baffle me. A lot of apikorsus passes itself off in a Borsalino nowadays.”
Well done sir! Could not have said it better myself.
I love that Hershey bars get equated with McDonald’s.
Hilarious.
Just because I pointed out a likely possibility does not make me a charedi basher. You can disagree with me, and point out where you think I’ve gone wrong. But resorting to ad homeinum attacks does nothing for your side of the argument.
Her children are witnessing the ugly truth about yiddishkeit and how it deals with independant thinkers and their siblings. Some will double down and feel that much more of a commitment to their relationship with Hashem. And others will see it for what it is and make their life choices accordingly.
I was being sarcastic about saying Mi K’amcha Yisroel. Due to the fact that learning and living Torarh is supposed to lead to behavioral refinement and sensitivity to your fellow man. Instead these “Torah institutions” choose to close ranks and keep out anyone and everyone with a tiny black mark on their record.
Kids will pick up on the fact that this system is a joke. I would not be suprised if your son follows in his brothers footsteps but maybe instead of just hanging out with other “undesireables” he will take his talents elsewhere and thrive in a less “exclusive” enviroment.
I’m not jaded, I’m a realist. As you said it yourself that the RY thought the same way I did.
I dont think that your son would complain about his home life, but if he happens to mention it, then it’s out there and the information will spread. He is not a “ticking time bomb” but that is the perception the yeshivos have. They think it’s only a matter of time before he is influenced to follow in the ways of his brother.
Hate to be the bearer of bad news but any “A” list institution thinks this way and while you are not trying to “paint everyone with the same brush” these institutions all operate out of the same playbook and they will do whatever they can to keep out anyone with “problems” they dont care to solve/be associated with.
So you can post here all you want and hope that someone reads this and it affects some positive change, but we havent seen change like that yet..it’s just getting more and more exclusive.
What do you disagree with?
@Writeorwrong
They will find out one of a few different ways but these two are the most likely.
A: Your son gets accepted, opens up to his Rebbe about problems at home, the Rebbe fearing for the neshamos of the other talmidim brings this issue to the attention of the hanhala at once, because clearly this boy is influenced by his older sibling and is a ticking time bomb.
B: Someone from your neighboorhood runs into someone who has a child in said Yeshiva and then through the usual frum lashon harah l’toeles grapevine, word gets out and pretty soon not only painted with the stigma of an otd sibling, he is now a “liar” too.
Mi K’amcha Yisroel.
There is very little perspective when kids go OTD, no matter what happens after the child leaves, it is viewed by the parents as failure on their end. As illustrated below and a hat tip to The Wandering Jew
Chani Goldstein: age 19, kicked out of her Yeshiva High School for smoking, and ended up doing drugs. She has no real place to live, has no prospects or job skills. She does not keep Kosher or Shabbos.
Rivki Schwartz: age 26, defied her parents who wanted to send her to seminary, managed to get a full scholarship to college, then went to law school while working part-time as a paralegal. She just passed the bar and has a job offer at a prestigious law firm. She does not keep Kosher or Shabbos.
Both shake their heads sadly.
You are not going to be able to get him into a “top tier” place with the baggage of an OTD sibiling. If you lie to the hanhala about the OTD sibling then once they find out and find out they will, your son will be summarily dismissed and then considered even more unworth of addmission anywhere worthwhile.
None of you are looking at the big picture which is that the huge problem in chinuch is that every place only wants “perfect” families and children. All this system of exclusion is doing is creating more OTD children and more dysfunction.
The good news is that the OTD kids might get a decent education now and make something of themselves now that they are rid of a broken education system.
That’s a nice trick. Qualifying as a moser or rodef because they espouse an opinion that is different than yours.
From the pen of DovBear
Can you help me understand why these tragedies got days of their own rather than being subsumed into T’bav? If the 6000 Jews killed by Chelminiki merit a day, and the 24 thousand students of Rabbi Akiva merit a month, surely the 6,000,000 can be remembered independant of Tisha B’Av.
Thank you! I’m glad someone thinks so.
Bris Milah is a mitzvah too
@Oh Shreck
Ahh yes, the old “yidishkeit has been unchanged since Har Sinai” canard. I supposed Moshe Rabeniu wore a black hat too?
Believe it or not, Rabbinic Judaisim has changed and evolved since it’s creation. And when the Chasam Sofer put this whole thing together in response to the haskalah, that became another evolution.
@Oh Shreck
“modern mageifah” Are you kidding me? The whole reason for the invention of “Charedi Judaisim” was the haskallah that brought all sorts of knowledge and ideas that freed people from certain constructs.
The Haskallah raged like a wildfire across “De Alter Heim” it is nothing compared to a bunch of teens acting like a bunch of teens by challenging authority.
Exactly! For instance, If learning Torah leads to behavioral refinement and a strict moral code…why do blogs like failedmessiah have so much to write about.
And since there is no good “Torah True” answer it leads to questions about the foundations of yidishkeit.
@WIY,
Plenty of kids who are “obsessed” with social media and media in general are also extremly well read and can see there are some “holes” in the Mesorah as presented to them. Current modus operandi is to shame them into believing lest they be labeled “at risk”
Can I get, You wanna know how I got these scars?
You dont feel inherently spiritual during the first 3 or 4 songs at a wedding? Those high energy numbers with the power chords and the blaring horn lines? I always laugh though during the start of the second dance set when I start singing a song in my head about a traveler from Australia.
Most songs you would sing at a Kumzitz are written in a minor key. That’s a songwritting trick to “tug at the heartstrings”
We associate minor chords and minor key melodies with sad/somber/emotional moments and feelings. So you could write a song with the happiest most joyful pasuk in the Torah and put it in a minor key and it would sound at home at a kumzits.
“They could eat it, we can not!”
It’s interesting/funny to me to watch people rail and cry and criticize anything that didnt come over to America from “the alter heim”
I wonder if the further we get away from our “European roots” you will see things like Kishke, Kugel, Gefilte Fish, and the rest of the “hemishe” diet die out.
Wanna know why they did it??
$$$$
?? ?????? ?????? – Journeys
Welcome to the “frum world” Write Or Wrong
Where you are guilty by association and having a son who is OTD is seen as something that is contagious.
It only gets worse from here. Might be time to rethink some things about the lifestyle.
Still a gigantic stigma. Some families have been known to give said children away at birth and then claim a miscarriage.
Keep in mind, people say no to prospective matches for wearing the wrong color shirt or scraping plates rather than stacking them. All the more so if there are “defective genes” in the gene pool.
If you have a special needs sibling, then expect a 2nd tier shidduch, unless you have some huge positive to offset the “negative” I.E. lots and lots of money.
#shidduchimtruths
#mikamchayisroel