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CR10Member
The Gemara you are referring to suggests that we have to have 20% pride in our accomplishments. The other 80% acknowledges that everything we have is from Hashem and that is why we praise and bless G-d all day.
We also have to acknowledge that our individual assets such as beauty, wealth or wisdom can also be a tikkun for reasons unknown to us.
In other words, with those who scoff at or scorn our beliefs and who attempt to bring us down from our level of belief we have to be extra vigilant, but with those on their way up but not quite there yet we should be completely tolerant.
CR10MemberAvram, we should not stop learning nor should we own TVs so others won’t feel inferior. You are changing around what I said. I said WE shouldn’t feel superior. I definitely agree that our talents come from Hashem, but check the news and you will see why we cannot know who is a greater Jew.
I am not the first person to say this, the Ramban states it in his Iggeret:
“And now, my son, understand and observe that whoever feels that he is greater than others is rebelling against the Kingship of Hashem…”
“Consider everyone as greater than yourself. If he is wise or rich, you should give him respect. If he is poor and you are richer — or wiser — than he, consider yourself to be more guilty than he, and that he is more worthy than you, since when he sins it is through error, while yours is deliberate and you should know better!”
According to the Ramban everyone is equal.
April 20, 2014 6:17 pm at 6:17 pm in reply to: Have Pesach and all major holidays become a competition of sorts? #1012257CR10MemberWhen I was a child, spring cleaning didn’t start months in advance. There was hardly any kosher food to buy so there were no mad rushes to the supermarket. Each family brought a pot of food to share with the others and the goal was to be together to enjoy the holiday.
Today we have lineups at supermarkets, aisles almost empty mid-Pesach, and we are making grocers very rich with the amount of cooking and baking we do–not to mention the fatigue.
I don’t understand the change, do you?
CR10MemberNot according to Hillel and many others including the Chofetz Chaim. All is important, of course, but it is one of the most important as many mitzvot and much learning pertains to it.
CR10MemberAgreed that a Torah life is a flashlight in a dark world. The point is that some use more of that light than others for reasons we don’t know. I am only trying to bring to awareness the tendency to feel superior to others because of certain mitzvot we keep, which others don’t. The ultimate goal is the unity we see in the unity march in Israel, which I believe is our ultimate goal.
CR10MemberThe more mitzvot we keep the more we feel superior to others who keep less and yet, the gedolei hador display more humility so if we are headed in that direction, the way to get there is not by feeling superior to others who keep less mitzvot but by becoming more humble.
CR10MemberWe can emulate without judgment. Do you feel that Rabbi Kaduri was superior? The great rabbeim of all generations, were they superior? Is Rabbi Kanievsky? All these great rabbeim are anything but superior. They are humble and their humility makes them great. It has nothing to do with superiority. The Torah doesn’t create superiority, it creates humility. Being great in Torah is being great in humility. Therefore we cannot judge anyone on their rise to this humility.
CR10MemberThe problem is that if I don’t have a TV and you do, I may feel superior to you. And if you are a learner and I’m not, you may feel superior to me. This list could go on and on. The point is not to feel superior to any other Jew even if we keep more mitzvot than others and yes, that includes the IDF, MOs, secular, etc. We are all at different levels. You are not better than me and I am not better than you. We are all equals at different stages. Hope that is clearer.
CR10MemberBut Hashem clearly tells us not to judge a person unless we reach his place. This requirement, too, is from Hashem and is part of choosing life because if we do not feel superior to him, we will not talk about him in a derogatory manner nor will we look down on him. If we see him as choosing a different path, then we can still respect him (and hope, he too, will one day choose life).
CR10MemberDaasYochid, do you have the ability of Hashem to see who is a rasha and who isn’t? I don’t have that ability.
CR10MemberI am talking strictly about Jews.
CR10MemberCR10MemberWhat I am saying is that we all have choices. Choosing to be closer to Hashem by being an Oved Hashem does not make me better than the next person. It gives me the opportunity to come closer to Hashem. This is an option available to all Jews. Everyone chooses his or her own level of closeness. I cannot judge another for choosing to be closer or further from Torah and mitzvot. I am not better or worse than him nor do I know anyone’s soul level as Hashem does.
CR10MemberMDG, that is one of the preconceived ideas that people have about Sephardic mentality. I came to frumkeit only through intellectual thought. After studying Judaism in depth, I discovered that it is completely true. There are also no contradictions in our life. We live a yeshivish life, nothing less and nothing more. No changes. Orthodox shuls only. We also think on our own as Sephardic Jews so that does not define a Sephardi at all, but it does define the preconceived idea of a Sephardi which is what I am trying to eradicate.
CR10MemberMazal77, I am not “beating up” on the Ashkenazim. I have Ashkenazi family who come to my home for every holiday. What I am asking for is the following:
1. That shidduch organizations be open to every yeshivish Jew.
2. That yeshivish Askenazim be more open-minded and inclusive of other yeshivish people of different cultures.
3. That yeshivish Ashkenazim not have any preconceived ideas about Sephardim. Check us out first before throwing us out of your organizations and schools(I have had unbelievable problems there, too).
The point of this post is to prove our oneness.
AM ECHAD B’LEV ECHAD
CR10MemberSoftwords, I always thought Padam Aram was in Syria. Nevertheless, that means even our Ahavot and Emahot had Sephardi roots! All the more reason to treat each other with respect.
CR10MemberYoni the yogi,
I too am a BT of over a couple of decades. And yes, I know the difficult process of getting to a high level of frumkeit and being accepted for it. I am not judging BTs or YUs and am friends with many of them, but a BT of just a few years (5 or 6) who went to high school in a mixed environment and a university in a mixed environment is not a match psychologically, spiritually or mentally for a FFB who never mixed with the opposite gender. For one thing, they will find the FFB very naive. I have yet to meet a YU person who has not engaged in watching movies, which most FFBs don’t. Their minds do not allow for this type of lack of tznius. And you can counter that by saying that some watch only tznius movies, but they are few and still have an underlying message that is not frum. No judgment here whatsoever. We welcome BTs and YUs as I say I have friends who are both. But would an innocent FFB child be suited for them, I don’t think so. You cannot put yourself in this category as you are BT for 15 years. That is a very long time and I am sure that you began at a younger age than the BT suggestions we are getting. If we are talking here about matching mentality, then we have to match frumkeit levels first and foremost. I was a shadchan for a while and when someone said, too frum for me, I respected that. When someone said, not frum enough for me, I respected that too. Shadchanim and shidduch organizations in Lakewood and in other places have to be open to all frum Jews and should match by frumkeit level.
CR10MemberFensterz, you and the rest of them can continue making fun of a very difficult situation for Sephardic people who are seeking shidduchim. This thread is not about Ashkenaz/Sephardic marriages. That was a different thread. The easiest way not to take responsibility for the lopsidedness of our community is to make fun of it.
CR10MemberWould your yeshivish children date recent BTs or YUs? None of my child’s classmates did. Why is there a double standard for Sephardi? YUs are great people who are often more immersed in the secular world. Recent BTs of just a few years may not have been shomer negiah.
CR10MemberI think you are all missing the point. I DID NOT ask for an Ashkenazi shidduch. I asked for help in finding a shidduch for my child from a shidduch organization in Lakewood. Are you saying that the population in Lakewood is exclusive to Ashkenazi and we don’t belong. (Talk about apartheid–now we know why we are being accused in Israel.) I asked a local shidduch organization to help me find a shidduch for my child–a Jew, that is all I asked for.
You also have to keep in mind that BTs of several decades are not traditional and have learned most of their minhagim from Ashkenazim. Children go to Ashkenazi schools and grow up with that mentality. That is still not to say I am looking for an Ashkenazi shidduch. I am looking for a Jew with a similar frumkeit level.
CR10MemberDaas Yochid,
Thank you for the blessings, but I am sure there are many Sephardim learning in BMG. Shidduch organizations just have to be more open to serving all Jews and not have preconceived ideas about Sephardic people. It is changing, you’re right, but at a very slow pace. I hope it will be different for my grandchildren.
CR10MemberThe Goq, that is not true. I am open to everyone, Sephardi and Ashkenazi.
edited – no names
DaMoshe, today Sephardi means Persian, Syrian, Egyptian, etc.
CR10MemberDaas-Yochid
One of my children is learning in BMG and I went there to get a shidduch for another child and the people at edited said, “Sorry we don’t deal with Sephardim.” How would you have dealt with such a positive experience?
In fact, very few shadchanim want to deal with Sephardim in Lakewood. Yet, our level of frumkeit is Lakewood. Instead we get Yeshiva University suggestions or BTs who have been frum just a few years. Yeshiva University people are lovely people (I know some personally), but they are best suited for other Yeshiva University people. Beginning BTs are also best matched to each other. I love every Jew, secular. BT, MO, everyone. But we are not matching properly because what comes first is not the frumkeit level. What comes first is are you Sephardi? Yeah, I am and you probably are too! Just listen to the Megillah this Purim! Sephardi does not equate with modern.
Don’t mean to be negative, just honest. My child rejects suggestions based on frumkeit level. We judge no one, but my child just wants to uphold a high level. Shadchanim organizations who provide modern suggestions or those who don’t want to deal with Sephardim don’t help.
I want to add that BMG has expanded by leaps and bounds because they are open to every single Jew based only on frunkeit level. When there is no judgment, G-d expands.
CR10MemberI am not accusing Jews, in general. I have just had experiences with shadchanim who refuse to deal with Sephardim. So the point is that we don’t know if our ancestors were Sephardi once or not. Gateways and Kesher should deal with us too. I know there’s a “shidduch crisis” out there, but not dealing with Sephardim makes it even harder for us.
CR10MemberI am referring to the time of the Megillah. How many of our ancestors lived in Persia at the time? Who knows?
CR10MemberSoftwords, our mentality is no different than yours. We are not traditionally Sephardi and are educated. Sephardi is just a label as is Ashkenazi. I deal with both Ashkenazi and Sephardi shadchanim. But the yeshivish world is run mainly by Ashkenazim and many do not accept that you really are yeshivish and so they have given us thousands of modern suggestions. (Thanks for the blessings.)
SaysMe, we are not looking for specifically Sephardi or specifically Ashkenazi. The shadchan in the Lakewood organization said lots of Sephardim come here to marry Ashkenazim, but they don’t want you (yes, those were her exact words). So I said, give me a Sephardi suggestion to which she replied we don’t deal with Sephardim.
I think that shadchanim should check a person’s frumkeit level before sending suggestions and not decide that because you are Sephardi,there is no way you can be as frum as I am. We are strictly frum, barely any outside influences, tznius, halacha followed entirely. My child has not been to any mixed gathering, not mixed schools or anywhere else. But we still get modern suggestions. My question is does my child have to become modern to marry just because we’re Sephardi?
CR10MemberUnfortunately this was not one experience, I was actually told at a Lakewood shidduch organization that they don’t even deal with Sephardim because they are different. Not sure how different we are.
I specifically told her to find a Sephardi shidduch for my child to which she replied again that they don’t deal with Sephardim. I have had several experiences like this in the last six years.
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