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yichusdik: You were wise not to respond to her. The best way to deal with people who resort to manipulation and intimidation, is to keep as far away from them as possible. It is a waste of time to try to reason with them, since their feelings and needs are all that matter to them, and in this case, their need to be right and win overrides all logic.
Oomis: I have to say your post shocked me.
Mrs. Mandelbaum did not say she thought this was fair, or good, or right…..She never said she agreed that people should be preoccupied with looks instead of inner beauty.
I didn’t read the original article, but what people write, tells you exactly what they think. Nobody writes a statement, and then says, I don’t really agree with what I wrote. They write exactly what they think is correct.
People forget when seeking someone for their child, that it is the child who needs to like what they see – in this case their son. Not their mothers.
This is the system in place today, we did this to ourselves and to our children, and now we are paying the price for allowing such nonsense to proliferate in the frum velt.
Uh huh. You call it nonsense, but say it should be continued simply because that’s the way some people think? I have never heard of such logic before! If it’s nonsense, it shouldn’t be advocated to continue. A size 2 instead of a size 8? Are you kidding? That is sick!! Get plastic surgery? That’s sick, too! I would understand that one individual can have such facial features that plastic surgery would indeed be suggested, but to come home from such a event, and suggest it for several, uh uh, that is extremely shallow. Such shallowness has no place in a Jewish home.
The way to change it isn’t to tell the girls to change their appearance. My guess is they looked just fine. The attitude will have to change, when the girls do not change their appearances just to please shallow women.
Wow: A computer in the hands of a frum erlicher person can make that person no longer frum nor erlich as has happened unfortunately to too many people (even those who still look & act frum). It is the absolute worst thing to get for a confused teenage boy.
Hashem should give you koach and siyata dishmaya.
Think first: tell that to the clowns over here who think that most women leave for no good reason.
Sushe: they are quoting daas Torah, not the Torah itself.
Are you feeling okay, yichusdik? What did I say that offended you or prompted that outburst? And how is it related to anything I said?
This is classic manipulation!
Computers have caused a lot of problems in the world. I don’t think this is one of them.
Unless it’s a government office that needs to get rid of some excess $$$$
Csar: if a woman separates from her husband, she has walked away from her marriage. And even if he’s a great guy and a good marriage, chances are he will divorce her.
There exists a need not to get all that one desires!
It’s interesting that you didn’t respond to the flip side of what I said.
As for this, yup there indeed does exist a need not to get all one desires. But you said that if all one needs are met only then can they be givers. Are you saying that that becomes true only if ALL needs are met? And if in one area it’s not met, then it becomes not true. Sorry. I don’t think there is any truth in that. And I highly doubt you can find many people who have all their needs met, and certainly not by the givers of the world.
Many posters have written, eg. avhaben, that women are at fault. In other words, they might be initiating divorce because they think that they are being abused, but in Reality they are NOT!
Did you see avhaben’s creditials that you can decide that he is an expert?
avhaben thinks it’s perfectly fine for a husband to dominate his wife. In my view that is called abuse. You can agree with him and think it’s not, but doesn’t make either you or him correct.
R’ Moshe Meir Weiss says a story that a couple came to him to resolve an issue. The wife said her husband told her she can’t visit her parents. The husband told R’ MM Weiss, to tell his wife that it’s within his right and she must obey. R’ MM Weiss answered him, you are correct, but if you want your wife to stick around…….
Most women will not walk away from a good marriage. Those that do likely have big issues. Big deal! There are men with big issues and women with big issues. It’s not a womens’ thing to have big issues. It’s a human thing. There are a great many men who have big issues too.
sushe: “The Torah is absolute. “
What is your point? Who argued about what it says in the Torah?
avhaben: I was simply stating my opinion. A home in which the husband controls his wife is not a home of mercy. Very far from it. It isn’t a home of right or wrong either. I have a right to that opinion.
And if they get divorced, you and Patri will state, “well, it’s the woman’s fault. She couldn’t handle married life!” And you have a right to that opinion too. Though I don’t agree with it.
I disagree with the OP. In life, children who were always given whatever they wanted, expect to continue adult life with the same attitude and they are not givers at all, they are only aware of their own needs. OTOH, the flip side is of those children who’s needs were not taken care of as children very often become extreme givers in adulthood and they are not aware of their needs let alone try to take care of them.
Patri: I reread what the post says. It says “the Shechina is manifest in a house which is conducted according to the attribute of mercy.”
I had read it wrong and of course this is true, a home that is run with the attribute of mercy, the Shechnia will reside.
On the other hand, when the members of a home are controlled by the man of the house, that home is usually NOT a home of mercy. I don’t care what proof you will bring to me that shows that it is.
yichusdik: I agree totally with what you said. And that goes for the “blameless” spouse. Anyone who initates divorce should evaluate why they married that person in the first place and if need be get professional help (or whatever help they can find) to insure it doesn’t happen again. If we don’t learn from our mistakes we are bound to repeat them. And that applies even if the person is completely blameless.
yichusdik: forget about no bad happening in the house. Anyone who thinks the Shechina is found in such a home is a fool
Patri: It works. (At least it did for me.)
I highly doubt it. And it explains your other thread “Who is at fault for divorce?”
Oomis: 5-6 weeks is pretty long time to date. I highly doubt there are more divorces in that group than those who dated a year. A year is way too long and is ridiculous.
popa: since your posts are twisted and crazy (which reflects the kind person you are), does that mean all men are twisted and crazy? (dont answer that ur a woman since clearly u r not)
Patri: regardless of whether the statement is true or not, it is obvious Naysberg made it up in response to moiauss’s statement.
I think some of the time they are both at fault for this reason: One is to blame for the breakup of the actual marriage, and the other one is to blame because s/he married the spouse for wrong reasons and should never have agreed to the engagement in the first place.
Naysberg: You made that up. OTOH, what moi aussi said is likely true.
PBA: “Women are twisted and crazy.”
HEALTH: “So TRUE!”
Health, with such an attitude, who will want to marry you?
I don’t understand. Monsey Mom said Chag kosher v’sameach, implying it was post from shortly before Pesach. Post says it was posted 6 months ago, which wasn’t before Pesach. Can anyone explain?
I also love Pesach and am always sad when it’s over. However, I wouldn’t want it to be for a month, I think a week is perfect. Everything Hashem does is perfect, and no doubt that makes a week of Pesach perfect.
…. and while of course they never admit to anything, to others who read the exchange it becomes clear who proved what.
Excellent!
popa_bar_abba: I agree. Which goes to show how idiotic the book is. And damaging to a good marriage rather than helpful
Middlepath:”computer777, actually, I think it DOES apply here. Obviously, we must do our best to try to have a positive influence on other religious Jews to make them want to stay religious, but if someone DOES become non-religious, we still should consider them Jews, and never treat them as second class. “
I agree with what you said, but I fail to see how that has to do with the goyim considering them Jewish enough to hate and persecute them. They are Jews and we must treat them like Jews because they have a yiddish neshama which cannot be changed, not because the goyim consider them Jews.
Oomis: what the world cares is not our concern. If the world would decide that being unobservant makes them not Jewish, would that give us license to treat them as not Jewish?
The frum people wanted Ed Koch out of office because of his being pro toeiva. And look where that gots us!
Vote for the canditate you feel will do the best job.
Oomis: I never understood that argument. We don’t determine a Jew according to what the goyim think.
And in fact, goyim who had a Jewish father or other Jewish ancestor were also considered Jewish by the Nazis and persecuted and killed just like the Jews were.
And it certainly doesn’t apply here. Is it ok for a ffb to want to be not religious and we say, oh, no problem, at least you remain a Jew since the goyim will still consider you a Jew.
Now your message itself, that we shouldn’t look down at others who are (in our minds) “less observant” is well taken.
Logician: When people get married they already know how to treat their spouse from their upbringing, whether in a good way or a bad way.
Sure, chosson & kallah teachers can do more teaching in how to treat a spouse, but a few lessons is usually not going to do the trick for those with issues.
These boys & girls who are going off the derech after they get married, are not ones that were emotionally healthy and erlich and after they got married all of the sudden they wanted out of yiddishkeit due to the hardships in their marriage.
Sushe: I don’t know the % of wives who release their husbands from their obligation, but I’m sure it’s much less than 99%.
Furthermore, for some strange reason, women are not told they have this option.
A woman has a right to release her husand from his obligation to support her, and her earnings and possessions then remain her own.
mary higgins clark – excellent
from revach.net
The Arizal says that you should not read pasukim at night. Does this apply to saying Tehilim as well? The Btzel HaChochma (4:46) brings down a number of sources that say the Arizal never meant saying pasukim of Tehilim. He further says that it has become an accepted practice in Klal Yisroel to say Tehilim after Chatzos.
He quotes the Yosef Ometz who says that in Chevron and Yerushalayim, where they followed the Minhag Ari, they would wake up at Chatzos to say Tehilim. The Medrash says that Yaakov Avinu said Tehilim at night. Dovid HaMelech said Tehilim at night and even composed most of Tehilim at night. However, adds the Yosef Ometz, that although when asked by someone about this practice he permits it because there are sources to rely on, nevertheless he himself is afraid and he refrains from doing so. The lone exception is Thursday night and Friday night since Rav Chaim Vital specifically says that the problems of saying pasukim at night are not applicable on these nights.
Lastly he brings from the Aishel Avrohom that even before Chatzos it is permissible to say Tehilim since Chazal tell us that Hashem considers the Tehilim we say as if we are learning the difficult mishnayos of Nega’im and Ohalos whose time is the beginning of the night. The Btzel HaChochma therefore concludes that it is permissible to say Tehilim the entire night.
Doswin: It is enough that she doesn’t want to live anymore with her husband. The only thing that can happen if she doesn’t have good enough reason is she doesn’t get her kesubah.
Women go out today whenever they need to. To the doctor, the grocery or anyplace they feel is necessary. If she is allowed to go out when necessary, then she can go to work even if it’s only because she wants to.
Coffee Addict: you implied otherwise.
Such nonsense posted here.
According to halacha a woman is allowed to work. Has nothing to do with what kind of husband she has. Even if he is wonderful and she has not interest in leaving him, she is allowed to work outside the home.
According to halacha a woman is allowed to leave her husband. This has nothing to do with women’s lib. She’s allowed to, period! Sure, she shouldn’t if it’s not a good idea, but that doesn’t take away her rights.
And CA, a woman is a ezer kenegdo, but she has a right to be ezer to the husband she wants to be one to.
The way I heard the story of the Chofetz Chaim was that he gave one (or five) minutes of learning (or tehillim).
What is your source for him giving up 1 (or 5) minute(s) of his life?
In addition just because one forgives someone that does NOT necessarily mean that you pick up the relationship where you left off.
What does it mean to forgive? If you don’t go back to the same relationship as before, how are you “forgiving”?
Why is it important to forgive? Not forgiving keeps us chained to that person forever. It takes a lot of energy to hold that grudge and be angry at someone. Choosing never to forgive someone means that you are forcing yourself to remember that person and choosing to be angry at them consistently reminding yourself of what that person did to you. “I will never forgive “x” for ……. and so on. This is a daily process almost from waking to going to sleep.
Says who? I can choose to ignore a person I feel did wrong to me. Doesn’t mean I think about the person at all. I don’t have to conciously forgive the person, I can just cut that person out of my life without ever having to give him/her another thought.
“If I am I because I am I – and you are you because you are you, then I am I and you are you. But if I am I because you are you, and you are you because I am I, then I am not I and you are not you.”
A Woman outside bklyn: I don’t understand why your post went through. Isn’t that against the rules of this coffeeroom?
For anyone suffering from low esteem I recommend “Pulling Your Own Strings” by Wayne Dyer. It is an amazing book, and has the power to literally change a person’s life.
Truth always rests with the minority, and the minority is always stranger than the majority, because the minority is generally formed by those who really have an opinion, while the strength of a majority is illusory, formed by the gangs who have no opinion- and who, therefore, in the next instant (when it is evident that the minority is the stronger) assume its opinion… while Truth again reverts to a new minority.
Cell phones & internet make one forget Torah.
R’ Shalom Shwadron. I read the book: “Voice of Truth: The life and eloquence of Rabbi Sholom Schwadron, the unforgettable Maggid of Jerusalem”, a few times. An amazing inspiration.
I will bln say today tehillim 1-15 inclusive. anyone else?