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thank you, i was begining to think that there was a cr policy to ignore me.
Personally I can tell you that I’m not even considering spending that money on a religious education. I would rather send them to a good non parochial private school and private tutors for lemudi kodesh.
A postive religious home enviroment where mom and dad arent fretting over every cent due to a tuition bill but yidishkite is central to everything can do a lot more then a home filled with pain and strife where children are warehoused and sleepwalked through a jewish education.
I’m not trying to be disrespectful to the people that are moser nefesh and sacrifice to provide a jewish education to their kids, I just have a different take on it.
It’s like this topic is the elephant in the room that no one has the courage to say what needs to be said.
All this system is doing is turning children (especially teens) away from a religious lifestyle.
I cant imagine any teen wants to see their parents stressed out to the point of breaking over yet another year of tuition with no means paying it. As a child and teen I never saw my parents get stressed or broken over anything else, except tuition.
What teen in their right mind would look at this situation and be excited to say “wow, i cant wait to have a religious family of my own”
Bigger than the shidduch crisis this is a problem that needs to be fixed now!! Not just because of the practical issues of finance, but for the haskafic and chinuch issues that will destroy the community a generation from now.
@Onegoal; Also people from the east coast tend to suffer from the delusion that you need to located in the tri state area to even be considered a real jew.
@Truth Be Told and @tryinhhard
Hashem gave us the mitzvah of having children, but you are not obligated to put your own life in danger.
Your comments on how the alternative is to “live a life transgressing thousands of averios” or “pushing away a malach because of a little tuition” are short sighted and incredibly insensitive to the families struggling to make ends meet under the crushing burden of a religious lifestyle
Yes the community is guilty of some excess on the part of weddings and even bar/bat mitzvahs but this in no way justifies the outrageous and skyrocketing rates for an education. Especially for a sub par secular education (if you even believe in such non sense)
The high food prices and real estate prices can be fixed with a few key moves but until we figure out the tuition mess, maybe its better to keep family sizes to a managable number
Of course it’s getting too expensive
But thats what happens when Frum neighboorhoods get too big for themselves.
Real estate prices skyrocket due to demand because EVERYONE wants to live in that neighboorhood. And no one wants to dare try living in an upstart community because, “what would their friends in the other neighboorhood say?”
Kosher food prices will continue to rise when each product or resturant needs 4 different hechsharim just to appeal to enough customers to keep them from going under.
Day school tuition is a result of all of these problems.
Mechanchim need to get paid enough to afford housing in an overpriced neighboorhood, groceries,and they need to pay tuition for their girls (if they teach in a boys school) or boys (if they teach in a girls school)
And once again it falls on the backs of the successful professionals to keep this endless cycle afloat.
So maybe instead of just whining about all of this, community leaders and askanim can get involved and solve a real issue and not just some “crisis.”
My idea would be for the rest of America (as i can not speak to the geography of the NY,NJ area) would be for newly married couples to start their own community in an area not so densly populated with religious jews. Within a few years you can have a world class frum community.
But it would require someone breaking ranks..and we all know its the 4th Yarog V’all Ya’avor
“I guess its just the peer pressure or what everyone will say, That I am dating a BT or get engaged to a BT. You know how people speak and talk behind your back, right?”
Well that statement says it all, it says how every girl/boy of marriageable age is terrified of breaking ranks (even if its the best thing for them) It also tells me that while everyone pays lip service to the concept of Teshuva, no one really thinks you can ever bury the past.
Dont get into the shidduch like your doing him a favor because your a FFB and he’s just a lowly BT
He’s probably too good for you.
@Sacrliege,
I’m glad someone appreciated it.
Gerald Ford
Joe Strummer
Harry Truman
Louis Armstrong
John Grisham
Ronald Regan
Ron Paul
Answers on this will fall into 2 different catagories
1: Music is intensly spiritual and sometimes you can take a tune and elevate it with jewish words and themes
2: Using a secular tune and trying to kasher it with words from tehilim is nothing short of drawing a hechsher on a package of bacon.
Personally I’ve seen this written before in the Coffee Room about how the notion of Jewish Music is kind of a fallacy due to the fact that everything from the “alter heim” was influecned by what was popular in their culture at the time.
Unless someone has a bootleg recording of what the Le’Viim sounded like while they were on stage in the Beis Hamkidash, the only definition of “Jewish Music” we will have is which ever definition we create.
Does anyone just see this as the normal news cycle?
Certanly the world has seen similar unrest in the past, only difference now is the 24 news enviroment we live in.
I heard some good ones are not being hung up on yichus,not needing someone with the exact same ideas as you to the letter.
Also, not letting a prospective match go because they have one of the following: Divorced parents, a 3rd cousin who went off the derech 20 years ago, saw a therapist, had the flu, saw a tv once,uses a different type of tablecloth on shabbous.
all excellent segulos and excellent practical suggestions!
@AinOhd,
You kind of proved my point with your comment about how Buchanan feels about Jews.
Any political candidate that does not bow at the alter of AIPAC or the ADL gets hit with the anti semite label.
Buchanans opposition to aid to Israel is within his right as an elected representative of the people.
Personally I would rather have someone in office who is openly hostile rather than a fast talker who says all the right things and then stabs you in the back.
Liberal jews who voted for Obama dont really care (I’m talking about the ones who are devoid of any Torah in their lives and not the misguided idealists who still lead a religious lifestyle or the ones who vote democrat so they can have the meshugenah goyim pay their bills)
The 70 percent of American Jewery that voted for this guy could care less about communities in the “disputed territories” all they want is for the world to love them and there be no more antisemitism.
We know that antisemitism is a by product of exile and no amount of concessions or assimilation will ever stem the tide. As long as the trumped up charge of “deicide” exists there will be people that hate us.
Maybe the Jews on team Obama should pick up a history book.
@double standard, why stop there? why not have beis din shel mala punish any Jew that helped Thomas Edison with the light bulb or Alexander Grahm Bell with the telephone
People are responsible for their own actions or if they drag someone down with them.
Leave the device makers and their sellers alone.
I’m glad to find another admirer of the great HJS!!
i think my favorite would have to be
“Kids, you tried your best and you failed miserably. The lesson is, never try.”
or
“I’m normally not a praying man, but if you’re up there, please save me Superman.”
there are more but I dont think they would make it past the mods
@Real Brisker,
I would tone down the self righteous a little bit..seeing as how your subtitle from your user name is taken from a television ad for Lipton Brisk Ice Tea!
Maybe the owner and operator thought he would be more profitable under a brand name rather than just another place with a “cutesy” name that makes deli sandwiches.
Chains are successful because they have a certain quality standard that you find everywhere. Because of that, they will attract non jewish business which is vital to a resturants survival in the Chicagoland area.
Do not blame him for his subtitle. It was given to him during yesterdays special. I, Moderator-88 gave it to him. He did not choose it. Check the thread on subtitles to request a new subtitle (but I will choose it). Offer open to all and ends in 15 minutes
“Eighty-Eight”
@Smart Teen,
As someone who had his home turned into a highschool refuge camp for 4 years I can tell you that my mom always commented on which of my friends were good guests.
Criteria she used
1: They were eating enough
2: If they had decent table manners
3: Had something insightful to say on either the parsha or just something going on in the world
4: Decent sense of humor
5: Polite in their table manners and their dialouge with other guests. (some of my friends had very different views on life and it could get ugly if not defused)
6: It wasnt imperitive but that they bring something (something practicle rather than ostentatious)
Most importantly!
7: If they called after shabbous and said thank you!!
@Derech HaMelech,
I’m talking about how institutions refuse to acknowledge the validity of anyone else’s view point. I know obviously the “yeshivish” institutions are not going to endorse views you would find at solomon schecter..but maybe if institutions said “you can go out in to the world and make a living and still be a g-d fearing jew” instead of “if you dont sit and look at a book for 18 hours a day then you are a failure” and I know this might seem like an extention of the learn vs work argument but it also boils down to the chincuh factor.
If children and teens heard that there are numerous ways to pursue a life goal and still be close to Hashem, it makes the medicine go down a little smoother than “everyone who is slightly different from you is wrong and a sinner!”
@Truthbetold; you are correct, as can two bored housewives gossiping about their neighboor during an afternoon.
@Health; no one can ever come out in “favor” of tv but if enough people realized that owning one doesnt mean that they are ready to sacrifice their children to molech it might become slightly less taboo.
My problem is also with the gigantic mixed message it sends..it’s somehow ok to talk about every detail of a 3rd parties personal life but it’s not ok to watch a sitcom on network tv for 22 minutes..I know it’s two different averiahs but I guess it’s better to hurt other people (with loshon hora) then to do some internal damage (tv) At least it’s more acceptable in the frum community
@Sister Bear; Very well said.
I happen to believe that schools arent really out to teach kids but rather mold them into their own version of jews and just try to build a massive army of kids and families that think exactly like they do.
I think if a Yeshiva or Girls School took the road less traveled and went with a curriculam and hashkafa that only the halacha mattered, you could solve the OTD problem on some level. Because the kids would find whatever hashkafa they were comftorable with on their own rather then be pushed into it and taught that their hashkafa is the only acceptable one and everyone else is a “goy”
Basically, turn the schools into actual schools rather than programming centers.
If you really want to get at the “heart” of the problem it’s this.
Gossip in the “frum” community is the replacement for television and outside media.
When everyone in a frum community is living pretty much the same lives and in close proximity to one another, any variation from the norm (no matter how small) becomes an item to be discussed and disected with little regard for how the information warps and spreads.
Throw in the added element of believing you are doing the right thing by talking about people behind their back and all of the sudden the rules of Loshon Hara go out the window.
If people just focused on their own lives and stopped looking at others for their “entertainment” maybe the problem would no longer exist.
For those of you high and mighty “in towners”
Watch how a real world class city run by corrupt thugs handles a blizzard of this magnitude
Did they ever get around to plowing in Brookyln?
Being OTD isnt like having a cold.
It happens for a multitude of reasons and not everyone comes back for it.
You cant pinpoint causes and you can only really speculate as to what works to bring people back
There is no cure all and rather then view it as an epidemic or the frum communities favortie situation a “crisis”..view it as an individual condition that is not contagious by promixmity.
Lol sounds like a used car salesmen
Its the internets fault!!!
@BPT thank you for the hat tip to my thread!!
And to the OP
Why would what your brother does in the privacy of his own room have an affect on your own level?
Going “OTD” isnt contagious unless you yourself make the decisioin to head that way. If your strong in your own beliefs then you will be fine.
Just focus on not driving your brother away with self righteous and hateful comments as I’ve seen happen in similar situations.
And my comments were deleted why?
For the usual reason your posts are deleted, for their reflection of your anti-religious disdain.
Example, a quote from that deleted post: Well the day schools do a pretty good job of scaring the students into thinking that every gentile is a nazi supporter and wants to convert them to christianity…
Dont you fellow OOT people get it?
New York is the center and hub for all things yiddeshekite and everyone who lives out of town just isnt serious enough about wanting to be close to Hashem
All us OOT communities are really good for is
1:Enlarged dating pool for people that just “cant find a good fit” in the tri state area
2: A vacation away from the most wonderful place in the world that will serve to remind you never to leave your six block community radius again.
3: Somewhere to send a problem child after they’ve been “asked to leave” all of the schools in the tri state area.
Personally, I get mad seeing an “In town” boy dating an “Out Of Town” girl.. Not all of us out of towners dream of a 1 bedroom 8th floor walk up in Brooklyn. Stick to your own general area of the country and leave the rest of us “hicks” alone!
The only communities that have a right to call others “Out of towners” is any community in Israel
I’m guessing the OP here is asking about how nursing school would affect the shidduchim process for their own child
*and round and round we go on the learning vs. working topic”
I’m a divorced man and I refer to my tallis as my failure cape.
I only wear it when I go to shul as I dont feel like answering stupid questions.
Hafiagirl and I have reactionary politics that frum people should wake up and realize are the way to go, we also have a shul/rav in commonn
@Popa, No I’m not, I already know that we’re about 3 or 4 generations from all of those “you owe it to the democrats jews” to be replaced by jews who realize that the far right (which actually respects truely pious people) is the way to go.
For me, it’s just a waiting game.
I dont endorse murder of politicans just because I oppose their views..but at the same time, maybe we need to start asking some tougher questions about the direction of this country
The whole problem here is that we’re calling this guy “crazy”
Some of his idea’s arent that far off
(well the mind controll stuff is a weird)
Especially the “one world government/currency”
The United Nations should not have the power that they do, the federal reserve shouldnt be able to control interest rates and manipulate markets they way they have. Even the President Of The United States should not be able to force you to buy health insurance.
Currency has everything to do with politics.
Go research what Ron Paul has said about the state of financial affairs and you’ll see that the shooter isnt as crazy as everyone thinks.
I think this line really showed your true intention
“Now I need to keep up with the Kleins and the Schwartzes and take my whole family away to Great Wolf or Florida???”
This has nothing to do with you feeling that the kids have too much free time and everything to do with that you feel pressured to exert yourself financially in order to appear as part of the community..
My advice to you is stop caring what anyone else thinks of you and your family…apathy in this situation will set you free.
And knowing the day schools they would probably charge a “winter break cancellation surcharge” therby making tuition even more expensive.
Let your children have a childhood and leave winter break alone
@mikehall – that is a classic piece of video game equipment!!
I still have my old 8 bit nintendo and I still play it!!!
@Ruff Ruff I might have sacrified some historical accuracy for a really cutting remark..lots of the scientists that worked on the manhattan project were jews including Isidor Issac Rabi
Also, the Atom Bomb – for when you absolutely need to either win an armed conflict or committ a war crime..accept no substitutes
@Sacrilege – thank you!!!
Finally someone has it right!
So many people running around trying to prove that they are “better” and “different” from those savages known as the “goyim”
I guess they dont like to admit to being human
@SimpleKindaMan I’m not sure I how I feel about bands still touring after core members from the original lineup are no longer involved..I think it’s greed/graveroberry of the worst kind. That being said, if they ever come around my neck of the woods again I’ll probably go.
I’m still waiting for the original lineup of Guns & Roses to reunite
Did you decide on the car?
The OP user name is a line from a Lynyrd Skynard song “Simple Man”
One of my top ten favorites of all time due to the guitar solo being really appropriate for the arrangement and the context.
Some lead guitarists feel the need to flex their muscles every chance they get. A great lead guitarist will know when to pull back.
@Simplekindaman – go pick up a copy of “One More From The Road” – a fantastic live edition of that song is on it!
I used to work for Bosch and during my interview with the vice president of sales I asked point blank “what was this company doing during WW2” The answer I got was as follows..Bosch during WW2 in Germany manufactured spark plugs for automobiles, the Nazi’s came to the factory and told them they would now be manufacturing parts for tanks. The powers that be that owned the company said absolutly not, we will have no part of this and they abandoned the facility and moved operations to switzerland. After the Allies vanquished the Nazis the company moved back to Germany.
While I was employed there I was treated just like everyone else and was never looked askance for leaving early on Friday or being off for Yom Tov.
It is a wonderful company and their products are the best out there.
But it’s not cool to actually research things so just go with what everyone else thinks so you dont get labeled for breaking ranks
Hope this helps!
“I crack a window and feel the cool air cleanse my every pore, as I pour my poor heart out” – Open Road Song by Eve 6
@AinOd
Some of our brethren think being passive and not making the goyim mad by hitting back is the way to go
We have as much a right to be in this country as any one else.
Old way of thinking on saftey issues needs to be revamped
This should not be seen as a call to arms or a revolt but some serious consideration on how to keep the community safe
EDITED
While we are subject to the rule of law and most communities enjoy a good working relationship with law enforcement, there are times when extra measures are needed.
When the Merkaz Harav attack happened, none of the actual students were armed nor were there any guards but someone in the beis medrish had served and knew what to do to take that guy down, if it happened where I went to high schoool, the mamzer could have wiped out half the student body.
Food for thought, average highschool tuition is about what 13 or 14 thousand a year? When you consider the critera for choosing a school (i.e. learning level, how it will look on a shidduch resume etc) why isnt safety a concern?
All it takes is one yishmaeli to get his hands on a weapon
EDITED
Wow you mean there was a shidduch made without someone asking all sorts of stupid and time wasting questions about irrelevant details regarding a distant relative 20 years ago?
I’m reluctant to believe that this story actually happened
Maybe this is another reason for the shidduch crisis?
Intolerance for an act that would be considered something a mentch would do?
And to the people suggesting that opening the door is just a guy trying to sneak a peak at something he shouldnt see..grow up
From a legal standpoint (lawyers feel free to back me up here)
If you fire on an armed intruder, you better go for the kill shot! As a wrongful death suit will cost you a lot less in the long run vs. a personal injury claim and emotinal distress and disability blah blah blah.
If you own a weapon you need to have the koach to use it and not hesitate.
Maybe someone who is really knowledgeable on the writing of the Ramban..but didnt all jews carry swords at that time and a special one for shabbous?
I spent a shabbous back in 2002 in the old city and davened at a minyan either very near or in the arab quarter and it was the most heavily armed shul on the planet. One guy had a beautiful silver plated 45 and when I commented on it he goes “you like? its my shabbous gun”
Here in chuz la’aretz maybe the maturity level isnt there but if things get bad enough I would call on the high schools and beis medrish programs to offer some weapons training because its only a matter of time before some arabs shoot up a school or at least try to. It would be nice if they were met with some resistance and we were able to say “Damenu Lo Hefker”
Peanut Butter and Sacrilege sounds like a great name for an album title for my rock band.
My dream ticket would be Pat Buchanan/Ron Paul
In no time flat the country would be headed down a more moral path along with fiscal policy that would put this country back on top.
I know its in our nature to scream “anti semitism” just because a political candidate looks at us funny, but it’s time for us to realize that America is a malchus shel chesed and if we want it to stay that way we need to let the needs and interests of America to come first before Israel.
For a long time I’ve believed that U.S. aid should be cut because as long as Israel is taking money from the U.S. they have a say in how Israel runs their country.
The truth is that the “Yeshiva” world has a lot in common with the viewpoints of Buchanan and Paul. Might be time to realize it and mobilize against our hellenist brethern who are responsible for the downfall of decency in this country.