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Wolf, it worked for you twenty years ago. The world is a little bit less moral since then. Actually a whole lot less. And IT does have an hoshpoa on the frum communtiites.
I don’t want to talk against an entire group who call themselves Orthodox, but what goes on in these circles where boys and girls freely meet, I cannot begin to tell you. Nor do I have to. I’m sure you know yourself what goes on.
I’m not talking about the more settled older singles. I’m talking about late teens, early twenties. It’s a different world than when you were that age Wolf!
Whoever wrote against publications including me were reffering to secular publications. I was asking you about Hamodia to prove that there are publications that cannot be considered tumei, even if you don’t agree with their hashkofos. Yated may be another example. There is nothing to consider tumei about them. They are NOT sources of tumah and therefore your question of However, you’re using “tumah” in more of a hashkafic sense, to mean improper and something you wouldn’t want to be around. In that respect, I suppose anything can be tamei. doesn’t apply. Because there are PLENTY of things in life that cannot be considered tumei even if you don’t agree exactly with their hashkofos. Immoral images and articles are sources of tumah. I don’t have to elaborate, you know what I mean. I would hardly call the Yated “immoral”.
No one was talking against Yated, Hamodia or any such publication.
The bottome line is do you agree that the BASIC hashkafos of a frum Jew means that they would not willingly bring into their homes immoral images or articles or read publications where immoral images cannot be skirted ?
I don’t know about going around calling things tumah. When one walks on the street they need to see where they’re going and depending where they live/work they might see more or less indecency, but surely I would assume that the hashkafa of every frum Yid is that we cannot willfully bring into our house or into our minds immoral images and articles. Our houses are the miniature mishkans and our hearts as well. Why would we willfully want to be metamah (I hope I used the correct term here)our hearts and homes?
Or do you have a different opinion of what the hashkafa of a frum Yid ahould be?
And also BP Totty, most Chassidishe bochurim absolutely don’t just sit at a beshow nodding their heads. If a bochur does that then he has a big problem. At a beshow the girl AND the bochur TALK.
BP Totty, as far as I know, no person stays static. The core characterisitcs of a person can stay the same however we our personalities are constantly evolving, depending on the stimuli around us. In addition, believe me there are plenty of leibedige Chassidishe bochurim (some of them take it to the extreme, unfortunately)
If a person is so unflexible and can’t change to the good or for Sholom Bayis, then there is indeed a problem. But most men change (hopefully in a better way) after being married for awhile.
SJS, as the thigh is definitely ervah, and since most humans, women included have their thighs connected to their knees, and since the knee itself is not one foot long (12″), but a mere 2″ or so, there is no way the knee can get uncovered and you can’t see part of the thigh. You might wish it’s not so, you might wish it’s invisivable for all men, but it’s not.
A skirt that doesn’t completely cover the knee while sitting or getting into a car automatically reveals part of the lower thigh as well.
That’s why we don’t do everything according to the letter of the law. We do MORE than the letter of the law. We make gedarim so that we cannot cross the boundries and come to violate the law itself.
Wolf, thanks so much for your clarification. I really appreciate it.
However, you’re using “tumah” in more of a hashkafic sense, to mean improper and something you wouldn’t want to be around. In that respect, I suppose anything can be tamei.
Do you think the Hamodia can also be called tamei?
You don’t need my permission. It’s just an expression.
I know, I know. I was just kidding there. (Though I was not joking with my last comment in that post).
smartcookie, I like your description.
yosr, you seem not to be a Chariedi and I must say that I am very impressed with some of the Mizrachi type (I know that label is not so in use these days, but as I am not familiar with categorizations used to name groups in Israel, I will call you that, but not c”v with a negative intentions) people who are very excited and enthusiastic about the Third Bais Hamikdosh and its being rebuilt. I think the Chariedim do have what to learn from you about enthusiasm for the Third Bais Hamikdosh. However, this can also be a slippery slope, as there were other times in history where such people, who literally craved for the rebuilding of the Mikdosh with every fiber of their being, ended up doing doing the opposite, for example Shabbtzi Zvi followers. Not c”v that I’m comparing, not at all and don’t get me wrong, however we need to tread carefully here.
First of all, the Israeli government will not rebuild the Bais Hamikdosh because of the mosques standing on the mount, and I might add b”H for that, otherwise we would have crazies doing all kinds of things there. And we certainly don’t want nor need the Israeli godless government, although it does support Chariedi institutions and we MUST be grateful for that (although they do it for political reasons only) they are still one of the last Jews we want rebuilding the Bais Hamikdosh, because the last thing it would be would be a mikdosh.
The art of Lechem Hapanim, while again it’s wonderful to try to create the lechem and vessels and all, it’s exciting as it should be, they absolutely cannot be considered de facto items that will %100 be used for the future mikdosh, as only Moshiach will teach us these holy items really ought to be made. As for now we can only speculate how they need to look if we follow all the shittas and meforshim. This much like the worm, I forgot its name, that we used to use for tzitzis to get its blue color and the mesorah was forgotton. So even though there are shittos that swear they have the real worm that was used, there was still a break in mesorah and not everyone accepts their shittoh. It’s the same in this situation. Not everyone will accept these shittos as facts. But when the holy objects for use in the Bais Hamikdosh will truly be built, after Moshiach arrived, then all Jews of every stripe will accept that as reality.
Moderator-80, I don’t know what the exact definition of the word beshow is, but we use that word for meetings between a girl and boy in the Chassidishe world. It is like a date, but the girl and boy sit in, they don’t go out.
In some Chassidishe circles, the boy and girl know that this will be there intended and the beshow is just to fulfill the obligation, I think it was from Chazal or another source that the husband must have seen the wife before getting married. However nobody parent has the right to push a shidduch should the girl not like the boy or vice versa. In most of these cases, these teens are too naive to know anything better and everyone is happy. Yes, in most cases even after they are married.
In other Chassidishe circles, after the girl and boy had their beshow, they each decide for themselves if they want to see each other further. In some circles two times is considered effeicient to decide and some have 3-4 beshows until they are sure that they are intended for each other. But even in this situation with more decision options, there is still less of a question mark whether this is their intended, rather they go to a beshow with the idea that this is probably their intended zivug.
Tumah is a noun. Tamei is an adjective.
Wolf, so why can’t I call newspaper tumah as in a noun form?
I call the newspaper itself tumah.
How would you call an idol, for example. Can I say an idol is tumah or do I say it is tamei?
If I need to say an idol is tamei and not tumah, then I think we can say inanimate objects are not tumah, but rather they are tamei, they transmit tumah.
Nothing is Tumah. Something can be TAMEI and be a source of TUMAH, but an object cannot be TUMAH in and of itself.
As far as I know a mes is tumah and a Jew can be tumah as well (and if my recollection serves me well, so can a shoretz).
Oh and thanks for giving me permision to carry on. I will do your bidding with zeal. SECULAR NEWSPAPERS THAT CONTAIN IMMORAL IMAGES AND ARTICLES ARE METAMTEM THE LEV.
A600kilobear, what a pity I didn’t read your advice before I had my beshows. I spoke about real trivial stuff at those meetings and really could’ve used your advice.
Nothing is Tumah. Something can be TAMEI and be a source of TUMAH, but an object cannot be TUMAH in and of itself.
Okay, Wolf, if you say so then it must be it. I have never learnt these halachas.
What strata are you trying to connect to?
It seems to me (from where I notice) that the problem is not with teens, or older women, but with married women in their 20’s and 30’s. Any ideas why?
gavra, I’ve seen enough older girls that go with tight clothing and skirts that cover the knee to the millimeter and the minute they sit, climb stairs or get into cars not only their knee gets uncovered, but part of their thigh as well, which is totaly ossur.
But come to think of it, I have seen many more young married women dress indecent and it could very well be that as SJS said once they get married and are free to do as pleased.
Therefore chinuch that instills in young children and young girls the WILL to be a tznua is vital, it becomes part of them.
Actually my first paragraph in my previous post were meant to be questions. I forgtot to use the question mark at the end of my sentences.
This system only works if the social system you’re in frowns on husband /wife interaction beyond the household essentials. Should Mrs. New Kallah want more than just a a domestic partnership, chances are she’s going to be flying solo.
BP Totty, those who had beshows never go on a couple only vacations, never out eat in resturaunts etc. They never ____fill in the blank with what you think non-exclusively domesticated couples do and see if there are couples who had beshows and never do these things.
You are painting these couples in one broad stroke. But we are ALL different. Yes there are even these couples who met at beshows who go to movies (not something I condone, but just proving a point).
I’m not saying that dating has no advantages. It definitely does. But looking at the overall dating v. beshows shidduch scene, I see overmelmingly that beshows are better. And not even only because of the shidduch scene but also beyond. I see people who dated for a long time find out stuff about there spouses AFTER marriage and they are not too happy.
WIY, I agree with you that secular newspapers or magazines are sources of tumah. THEY ARE TUMAH. Who would want to bring tumah into their house?
While I’m not going to say as a fact that the internet is kosher as it was assured by Rabbonim, but there are choices out there. For example I’m not even totaly connected to the internet but I am on a network that allows me EXTREMELY limited internet access. People can have filters in addition to making the right choices of what sites to visit.
However, goyishe literature is saturated with shmutz and there’s no dodging it. It’s right in front of you. If someone wants to be updated on the news, besides for reading the Hamodia daily, they can listen to the news on radio.
Helpful, I have actualy written a helpful few ideas throughout this thread.
But as I don’t have patience go through the thread again and copy the posts, let me just pare it down into one word EDUCATION.
Eduacte the women how important it is and how HONORED we are to have this mitzva of tznius. From a different thread where someone posted meforshim I see meforshim refer to kol kefuda bas melech penuma as meaning the TZNIUS of a women is her HONOR. A woman should not be ostentatious rather refined and aidel in every manner, not just dress.
We should teach that women who are pritzus are acting in a cheap manner and degrading themselves.
Education for girls need to start when they are very young, pre-school age. It should be second nature to these girls when they grow up. Teaching tznius IS an ESSENTIAL part of chinuch.
BP Totty,
I don’t agree that the boy should only nod his head. There’s no reason that there cannot be a normal conversation flowing if the two click. Unless one of them has a social issues problem or is simply shy, which in that case he/she needs more time to open up.
My friend’s son was “coached” on the 15 minute drive from his house to his beshow on what to say and what to ask.
Nu, s’faylt iem epes?
“A Soul in Costume”
A soul floats in the brilliant vastness,
Moments before it enters Earth,
Upon entry it is cloaked in its guise,
Which is revealed upon birth.
A facinating costume this gift from God,
To hide the now unfathomable, divine soul,
In an awe inspiring garment of the human body,
So that it can fulfill it’s divine role.
Will Man remember or forget,
That concealed behind his coporeal eyes,
Is the soul that lies in purity,
Beneath the flesh’s diguise?
Will the costume be primped in vanity,
Will he squander the gift of life for naught,
Will he aspire to aquire temporal gain,
Leaving the soul empty and distraught?
Or will the truth of life be a remembrance,
The purpose of life his quest,
With every beat of his human heart,
Triumph over life’s challenges and tests?
The soul, obscured in its costume, gets polished or sullied,
As Man determines his spiritual destiny.
And his actions carve his soul’s perpetual fate,
Until it is called to its place in Eternity.
Jewish courage, I totaly agree with you.
Thanks Dave Hirsch for Rabbi Avi Shafran’s article and also the other posts on the subject of the churban.
Rabbi Shafran’s article is beautiful.
Let’s understand the basics of Judaism. Unfortunately, the liberal world we are in has completely mixed up the yoitzeras so we don’t understand that acceptence of sin and respectful of people’s sinful choices is an abhorrance to God AND does NOT make us love our fellow Jews.
In the goyishe world, any sin is accepted. From the Islamic countries who preach hate and that murder of infidels is admirable, to America where immorality is rampant and accepted. Do people love each other more because of that? NO, NO and NO again! Even the liberal, accept-everyone’s-behaviour type of people who accept even the Muslims who preach hate have no love for religious people with ideals. A large segment of these liberals, maybe eventhe majority, hate religious people, especially those who publicaly take a stand for values.
Not to compare what is here an attempt of ahavs Yisroel, however acceptance of sin has leads us to become complacent and if we become complacent of sin then it could lead us or the next generation to sin. We must uphold REAL Jewish values AT ALL COSTS!
Let’s remember that the first Bais Hamikdosh was destroyed because of geloy aroyas, which being untznius eventually leads to, because of murder, (which recently a murderer in our midst got unfortunately a nice burial and that shows acceptance,) or idolatry, which is any excess materialism that takes away our potential of spiritual growth and connection to the Ribonno Shel Oilam. There is absolutely nothing wrong in discussing and grappling with these issues. The intention is not to bash anyone rather express our opinions about these issues.
The second Bais Hamikdosh was destroyed because of sinas chinum. But let’s remember that acceptance of sin does not necessarily lead to acceptance of humans and vice versa, acceptance of humans does not need to lead to acceptance of sin.
Rabbi Aryeh Kaplan z”l (his family did not refer to him with zt”l, so I won’t do that either, however I do think of him as a tzaddik) writes “Judaism teaches that we have a second, perhaps greater, principle in guiding our relationships with others. In addition to motivation of love, people must act out of responsibility towards their fellow man. The Talmud teaches us that one who has the power to prevent evil, or even to protest against it, yet does not do so, bears as much responsiblity for the evil as the one who actually performed it. (Shabbos 54b) This is true whether the perpetrator of evil is one’s neighbor or freind, one’ community or country, or even the world. This is reffered to the sin of silence. Not speaking out against wrong, and not trying ot prevent it, is as evil a sin as the wrong itself.”
Every person has a spark of keduasha in him. No person is ever rejected by God if he does teshuva. No matter what a person does, he is always loved by Hashem and can always return to Him. A Jew is always loved by Hashem, no matter what kind of life he leads, but just as Hashem gets “angry” so to speak when we sin, so too we must love every Jew, but not accept sinful deeds of anyone including ourselves!
Sorry that I’m going to pour cold water here, but it makes me wonder why other people think they DO have a right to judge others whom they don’t agree with. Let’s say I do think it’s important to talk about tznius and other issues, why does someone feel they have to judge me for THAT?
In addition Astrix, if you TRULY meant to be non-judgemental (but it fell flat, because you did judge others) then I would expect such a post that could make others state their opinion rather forcefully (I hope you realized that from other threads) be written any other day than Tisha Ba’Av. Or at least it should’ve been written more respectfully if you would like to teach others v’ahavta lreiecha kemoicha.
Rabbi Aryeh Kaplan a”h, writes about our life in America that we are living in comfort but ” material wealth and power are here today and gone tommorow, but faith in God is eternal. We have nothing to lean on but our Father in Heaven.”
It’s important to remember, but even more important to KNOW and FEEL that everything is fleeting and the fact that we are relatively secure here in America doesn’t mean anything.
WE ARE STILL IN GULOS!
We cannot know the cheshbonos of the Ribbono Shel Oilam and therefore we cannot say why individuals suffer. Some people do suffer more than others. And when Hashem sends a collective punishement on klal Yisrael, innocent rightous individuals get punished too. Today people who have painful lives doesn’t necasserily mean that they are sinful people. We cannot know Hashem’s cheshbonos why individuals suffer.
However Klal Yisroel as a whole, when we are collectively punished, we know this is because of our sins or because we are in golus and Hashem wants to remind us of that fact.
In Spain and Portugal, Jews had high postitions in the government, Jews were rich and influential. But Hashem sent the Inqisition to remind the Jews not to get to comfortable or forget that they are Jews.
In Germany too, the majority of German Jews considered themselves Germans first and Jewish second. German Jews were assimilating and were trying to be more German than the Germans. Well, Hashem made the Germans hate the Jews to such an extent that Jews cannot anymore say that they are more German than Jewish.
I’m a little worries that we are getting too comfortable in America. That doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t be good citizens. Rather the way we live our lives is as if golus is over.
Hashem should protect us and turn our hearts towards Him in goodness and no more tragedies should befall us.
I’m interested in hearing what others think of this thought, whether they agree with this or not.
The churban was a culminaton of years of sinning and consequently ongoing weakening of the Jews so the Churban really happened slowly, building up to a crescendo. The culmination of this all lead to the time being ripe for the total Churban but the catalyst that caused the flames to ignite and burst into wildfire and there was no going back was when the Jews killed Zacharia Hanovi or the story with Bar Kamtza.
So the destruction of the Bais Hamikdoshes was not a one time thing rather tens and maybe even hundreds of years of events that lead to the churban.
I think the geulah too, will be a culmination of events that will lead to moshiach’s arrival. In other words the belief that Moshiach can come any day is the idea that any day the process of geulah can start. And I believe, looking at world events that the process of Moshiach’s arrival has started. But I don’t want to sound like I have an heretic idea, so maybe someone can explain to me why my idea is wrong, but my idea is that Moshiach will not just pop up from one day to the next rather it will be a culmination of events that will lead us to a time that is ripe and there will be one thing that will be the catalyst, the spark and Moshiach will arrive.
Years ago women went out when they went to the river to wash their clothes.Women dyed yarn outside in huge pots.Women had to use the outhouses. I could go on and on.
Women did tons of chores outside of their homes.
Ben Levi, years ago the houses were a quarter the sizes that we have today, they had less clothing and overall less materialism ehich required less upkeep. Even their food was much simpler.
Years ago people had time to sit outside and relax at the end of the day. Yoday women, exept for on Shabbos are forced to sit when they need to watch their kids but household chores are never done. Life is more complicated and therefore not easier.
when the satan comes dressed as a woman either they would’ve been nichshol not for their torah or one bored his eyes out
A tzniusdige dressed woman is not the Aatan (ar least I KNOW I’m not the Satan) so it doesn’t apply to them.
In any case since you can’t take care of all the pritzusdige women, especially the barely dressed non-frum women so I really think this is something a man should take a lesson from how to behave( I’m not saying you need to bore out your eyes).
the answer to women being untzniusdik (out in the open) shouldn’t be that it’s your fault for loking at them
And why not?
rescue37, do you think your recipe would work without the cottage cheese? I only have sour cream.
I take it that the noodles have to be cooked before baking it, or am I wrong with that assumption?
The heavy feeling of Tisha Bav together with the fasting is conducive to the rembrance and mourning of the churban which is really all we have to do on this day.
I’m always thirsty when I fast so once I drank a huge amount of water before fasting. I cannot tell you what cramps I got from that. Too much water is not healthy and depending on the amount can be dangerous (which I learnt after that incident).
It’s important to stagger fluid consumption throughout the day not drink it all at once. It’s also a good idea to eat fruits with high water content like watermelon.
Be happy they are grouping together to chat. The other option is forcing YOU to listen to everything they want to talk about.
Ha, ha. THAT would indeed be the ultimate punishment for men who want all the women “held captive” in their house.
ef613, I say women should be banned from our communities. That would solve all the problems.
SJS, you’re right. Does anyone think they were sitting an entire day in their one room tents or huts? in fact that’s what I think the Rambam meant with women not going out of their houses more than two times a month. I think he meant they shouldn’t leave their chatzer.
If the women today will not sit outside who will watch the little kids? I see little kids roaming without anyone taking care of them. I don’t think it’s a tznius problem if the mother or older sister is outside watching him.
We need to remember that the denser we build and the bigger families there are the more these issues will crop up.
So women should really have the seichel not to sit on steps of entrances to biuldings or apt., in middle of the sidewalks or talk and laugh too loudly.
But as the saying goes, “if you can’t take the heat get out of the kitchen”. In other words if someone doesn’t like to live in Yentatown, don’t buy a condiminium or a sandwich of a house that’s squashed between tons of people!
mbuchar, there are numerous prophecies about when Moshiach will come but that doesn’t davka mean that he will come because of these prophesies, some of them true and some of them bubba meisas because we can’t know Hashem’s cheshboinos. The only thing that we do know is that Moshiach WILL come as Hashem promised us, and he can come ANY day when Hashem deems it to be the right time and he’ll tell us the besura of the geulah.
oomis, Actually I was talking about husband and wife although I see nothing wrong with teenage girls having occasional dicussions about shopping and clothing costs as long as they have other interests as well.
I was talking about husband and wife and I thought other couples might be having the same scenerio like I do with my husband. I don’t see anything wrong since I’m not a compulsive shopper and don’t buy anything extra. But I am very exited with my quality bargains and since it’s not THAT important that I need to run to my freinds to show off my bargains, my husband nebach becomes my korban when I show him what I bought and how much it cost. His eyes glaze over when I do this but he does try to inject some excitement.
But anyway, I enjoy shopping for clothing and enjoy talking about my bargains after a (necessary) shopping spree and I don’t see anything wrong since it’s an occasional occurance and I don’t feel like I am a shallow or uninteresting person because of that.
I hypothesized in one of my previous posts that women didn’t come to bais din “because of kovod it wouldn’t pas for them to argue in front of a bais din.”
Actually the precise reason the Meforshim say that we do not disgrace an honorable woman to come to bais din is found in the meforesh that says The same (reason as for a woman) applies to a Chacham for whom it is degrading to argue with Amei ha’Aretz in Beis Din
See kasha’s post for sources
So what about women going to spend the evening with friends at a restaurant stam a zoi, not for an occasion, is this mutter too?
It’s important to get out occasionaly, but some women are forever frequenting resturaunts a few times a weeks. That’s different than getting together once in a while with freinds. The middle road of everything is the best.
The same goes for those LIVING in malls or other shopping areas. For those that enjoy shopping and finding metzias and occasionaly do so (maybe more frequently before Yom Tov) and come home revitalized with their fabulous finds (“Husband look what I found! I found a skirt for Daughter for $10! Isn’t it gorgeous? Look the original price was $60! And I also found a matching top for $5!” Husband tries to look interested but isn’t succesful) there’s nothing wrong with that. But for a woman to constantly live in shopping places and frequent them every other day makes her a woman who is not living with the knowledge that “kol kevuda bas melech penima”.
Btw, since I was once accused in the CR of poskening halacha, let me make it clear that I’m not trying to posken any halacha (not that I would be eligible to do that anyway). I’m merely explaining why our current lifestyle, IF LIVED B’TZNIUS doesn’t contradict halacha.
Also I forgot to highlight the entire last sentence which state that “The same applies to a Chacham for whom it is degrading to argue with Amei ha’Aretz in Beis Din;.
The key words here are DEGRADING and HONOR.
The reason she doesn’t go to Beis Din, as clearly stated in the poskim and Gemorah, is because she shouldn’t go outside the HOUSE.
Max well, Where does it CLEARLY STATE that a woman cannot go out of the house?
Such a statement would contradict
1. Rambam (Hilchos Ishus 13:11): A man must give his wife clothing like women normally wear outside in order that she can go to her father or a house of mourning or Simchah. She may go to these places to bestow Chesed to her friends and relatives, in order that they will come to her. She is not a prisoner who may not come and go. However, it is degrading for a woman to always be outside and on the streets. A man should prevent his wife from doing so. She should go outside once or twice a month, according to the need. The beauty of a woman is to stay inside – “Kol Kevudah Bas Melech Penimah”.
i. Source (Magid Mishneh): Bereishis Rabah (45:5) says that when the Torah discusses the detriment of women, it says that they go out – ‘Va’Tetzei Dinah”. The Sifri (Tetzei 242 (23)), regarding a Na’arah Me’orasah who was enticed to Zenus, says that a breach (going out in the city) calls to the thief. Bereishis Rabah (8:12) reads “Kivshuha” like ‘Kavshah’ to teach that a husband should prevent his wife from going out too much.
15. Gitin 12a (Beraisa): If a wife was exiled to a refuge city, her husband must feed her. He can tell her to feed herself from her earnings only if she earns enough to feed herself.
16. Question: If she can earn enough, this is obvious!
17. Answer: One might have thought that due to “Kol Kevudah…”, she need not work and he must feed her. The Beraisa teaches that this is not so.
Miforshim ARE talking about honor
5. Rosh (Shevu’os 4:2): The Ri ha’Levi learns from our Gemara that we do not disgrace an honorable woman to go to Beis Din, due to “Kol Kevudah.” Rather, we send a Shali’ach of Beis Din to hear her claims. The Aruch and R. Chananel agree. The Ramban and Teshuvos of the Rif and Rav Sadya Gaon do not allow this. The Rif allows only that Beis Din send scribes to record her claim. The same applies to a Chacham for whom it is degrading to argue with Amei ha’Aretz in Beis Din; his honor is greater than a woman’s.
Thanks Kasha for your sources.
The issue is girls congregating the streets for three hours and not going to a particular place
The key question is where are they congregating? In front of a beis medrish or a place where men constantly go and come?
yb613, if that’s the case then you have a justified complaint. So to find out if your complaint is justified I would speak to other bucharim and see what they have to say about this inyan. If there is indeed a problem with girls congretating in places where they shouldn’t be, then discuss this with a Rosh Yeshiva and if they find that there is indeed a problem that justifies a solution, they can call the girls principles from school and work out a solution such as girls cannot congregate on a particlur block where men constantly go and come.
If it’s girls congregating in one particular area let’s say in front of someone’s house and that house is not located near a shul then the girls cannot be asked not to congregate there. If you find it disturbing perhaps you can find a different route to where you need to go to circumvent passing the girls.
The Rambam writes ” She is not a prisoner who may not come and go.”
It seems to me that the miforshim talk about women not going to din Torah because of “kol kevudah…” it indicates that women were involved in disputes because they ere involved in busines. But because of their kovod, it wouldn’t pas for them to argue their case in front of a bais din. Just like the Rif who poskened that it’s not HONORABLE for a Chacham who’s HONOR is greater than a woman to be called to bes din. It’s obvious that we are talking about KOVOD-HONOR.
The lesson I take from this is not that women should be prisoners, rather it is not honorable to publisize oneself. One is showing kovod and respect to oneself when we act b’tznius.
You are aware that a shtreimel was originated by the Polish aristocracy, right?
My husband still has the shtreimel but he doesn’t have his white horse and bejeweled sword, I don’t have jewels that dazzle and maids that wait at my beck and call and we don’t live in a castle.
What kind of prophecies are you talking about?
The biggest shvach of the Yidden is that in the golus that has lasted over 2,000 years, we still are Torah true Jews.
Throughout the years in golus we were forced into slavery, forcibly converted, suffered through progroms, through the Crusaders, through the Inqisition, through blood libels, expulsions, forced into gettos, pillaged and plundered, we lived through the Holocaust,
AND WE ARE STILL HERE LIVING WITH EMUNAH AND BITACHON IN THE AIBISHTER AND WITH THE BELIEF THAT THE TORAH IS DIVINE.
Our children are in frum schools learning the holy Torah, our yungerleit are in kollel, we keep Shabbos and the mitzvos and we await the arrival of Moshiach tzidkeini bb”a.