philosopher

Dass Yochid,thank you so much for the Anovim translation.

I loved the tune and felt a spiritual connection to the words although I didn’t recognize some words and therefore didn’t know the exact meaning of the posek. Now I can truly enjoy this beautiful song.

I think Yossi Green is a very talented composer. I love most of the songs he created.

Can anyone can post the source and translation as well as the meaning of the song Anovim as from some of the words I can deduce that is an allegorical posek? That would most appreciated.

tomim tihye, that’s untrue. There’s nothing that’s negates the understanding that these chats are wrong when asking if anyone can suggest effective measures one can take. If you have an interesting idea post it. If an interesting idea means strong worded speaches to my kids, keep that to yourself. That I can do without anybody telling me.

qa, my question was not about when to teach kids chinuch. My question was whether chatting with police officers and delivery men when all the neighborhood kids are, is considered for girls a breach of tznius. The truth is that it is not tzniusdig for girls (and not the right thing for boys either) to shmuess with strange men.

I guess I’ll ask the right question now. How do I get my children to do the right thing which is the opposite what the other kids are doing? How can I get them to stay out of these conversations?

I just want to amend something I’ve posted yesterday. Semi-straight skirts fall in the same catefory as straight skirts and do need at least 4″ from under the knee cap to cover the knee, not only when sitting but when moving around while sitting.

Straight and semi-straight skirts can ride up slightly (or a lot-depending on the skirt and figure)when sitting, while skirts that have enough fabric in the width, do not ride up and therefore for me (everyone needs to check it out for themselves) 2.5-3″ of skirt lenghth from under the knee, sufficiently covers the knee area.

This thread has made me more tznius concious than I’ve been. I think writing about it, makes one become more observant in this area. I think that if the schools would require of their students one essay a year with a topic and/or discussion such as “why tznius is important to me” or “how did my perception of tznius change within the course of a year” it would get girls a chance to explore the topic of tznius how it pertains to them and to think about tznius in a constructive manner.

*Above emphasis added by mod.

oomis1105, thank you for saying that. I’m a stay at home mom now, not because we don’t need the money and not because I like being home, but because this is the right thing for me to do. Truthfully,it is intellectually stifling for me, but my shitta is you do what you have to, not what you want to.

I have seen a huge difference with every child the longer I kept them home. My youngest, who is now two years old, has never gone to a babysitter until a week ago and was there for two hours. Boy, do I see a diffence between this child and the others I sent out to babysitters four weeks after they were born, because I was working.

I have to say though, that I do need to get some space now that my son is two years old so I started sending him to a babysitter for a few hours a week.

hereorthere, I agree with you that Ritalin is poisen, but I think that it is prescribed more for boys because they are more active than girls and the teachers don’t have patience to discipline them. As far as the goyishe world having an agenda of promoting girls over boys, that could very well be as I see minorities are promoted over white people and usually this liberal agenda goes hand in hand with promoting women over men.

I think the feminist agenda is adopted by women when they feel they are looked upon as mere objects. That’s why in the heimishe circles where women are respected as people women don’t need to be feminists to feel validated. However, at the rate it’s going in some frum circles where there is too much focus on looks when it comes time for shidduchim, I’m afraid girls will start looking for feminist ideals if they start feeling invaladed as individuals.

When a skirt covers the knee when sitting, it will also cover the knee when walking up the steps. And regarding getting into a car, it’s not the extra inch in that will cover the knee (obviously, I’m talking only about the legnth of skirts that cover the knee when sitting), but the width of the skirt is what makes a difference.

So too, on a windy day, it’s not the extra inch that makes a difference, but the cut (gathered cut) and weight (lighter fabrics pick up easily) of the fabric.

That’s why I say, you can’t be too technical, you need some common sense.

ir, I totaly agree with you.

SJS and so right, I’m 5’3 and would look atrocias in skirts that are 4″ below the knee. My skirts are 2.5″-3″ inches from under the cap of my knee. Total skirt legnth is 25.5″-26″ from the waist. Now since such a length does NOT COVER THE KNEE when wearing a straight skirt, I don’t wear straight skirts unless it has pleat(s) starting from the hip area. I generally wear a-line skirts. I do wear a straight skirt if it is loose enough – in other words a semi straight skirt that has enough fabric to cover the knee when sitting (I try it out to make sure it’s fine).

Also, I don’t buy gathered skirts as it becomes a balloon in the wind and uncovers the knee. I try on the skirts in a sitting position too, before I wear them, to make sure it sufficiently covers the knee.

So here’s my take on this issue. Rulers are important, but so is common sense.

It’s not just the clothing that needs to be tzniusdig, but the actions of a woman need to be tzniusdig as well. In other words, if the penimius is b’tznius, then you automatically know how to look b’tznius even if you enjoy being fashionable.

SJSinNYC, While girls generally dress for women and girls, women who have been married for a while, their yetzer hora can change. Some frum women are unfortunately clearly provocative in dress and speach. I believe you are single or at least newly married. But definitely not married for a few years. People change. If women have not gotten used to dressing in a way that shows they respect themselves and dress for themselves then for WHOM they dress and try to impress can change. From dressing to impress for women it can easily evolve into dressing to impress for men.

While I agree with your line,”I am only responsible to ensure that I keep halacha, I cannot control what others do.” I do not agree with your next sentence that seems to imply you will not be held accountable for causing men to sin if you do not dress within the parameters of halachah. While a man is not exempt from shmiras eynayim regardless of how women dress, those who are lax in the halachos of tznius and as a result cause a man to sin, ARE responsible for causing someone to sin. One is not allowed to be the cause of sin, regardless what the others responsibilties are regarding sin.

Daas Yochid, I didn’t mean treif fish as in treif fish. I meant to ask if anyone thinks the gedolim of the previous generations ate worms that were ossur. If those worms were ossur there’s no way the gedolim of the previous generation would have been machshal through ignorance.

Please excuse me, but from all the stuff I hear what Rabbonim said and ossured, I’m skeptical of any stories and ossurim that I hear unless there is a direct mekor of a reliable person who sais he was there and saw/heard the story or thing being ossured.

Now just to make this issue clear for me, I called up my Rav, a very big Chassidishe posek and asked him about these worms. I’m not going to tell you my Rov’s name as I feel everyone should call there own Rov and listen to what they say.

Here’s what my Rov said. Fresh fish is kosher. Frozen, packaged fish needs to be checked for worms. Canned salmon some hold is assur and some mutter, but he didn’t tell me it’s assur (which leads me to think that he thinks it’s mutter, but doesn’t want to posken differently than certain Rabbonim).

So that’s that for me.

Listen joeym, I agree with you on the points you are conveying. Tight fitting clothing should not be worn and legs should be covered, but maybe you need some help with this issue.

Unfortunately, there are some circles that are frum and not chareidi where woman will not cover their legs. You’ll have to live with this. I’m definitely not condoning this level of (un)tznius, however this is reality. Therefore, it might do you good to discuss with a Rabbi or someone you trust,ways to stop noticing and thinking about women that much. Im not trying to be nasty. I’m just saying that this is reality.

derech eretz kodma lTorah

Hde, I agree with you. I used to resent all the cooking that I did for Yom Tov and especialy for Pesach and truth to tell I dreaded Pesach because of it. My feet were killing me from standing by the stove before Yom Tov and on Yom Tov for hours. Until I got smart and cut out a lot of stuff that took too long to prepare. I told my husband , if he wants the Pesach lukshen crepes-which takes a long time to cook fry all those leaves- he’ll have to do it himself.

Pesach is so much more than the food we eat and I wanted to enjoy it, not be stuck behind the stove.

Some people enjoy cooking and baking so I guess Yom Tov is a time for them to go all the way. There’s no reason to make it a pressure for the the rest of us though.

Great question. It’s a pitty that something so basic isn’t taught to us in school/cheder.

Thank you Tzippy, I’ll check out Rabbi Kaplan’s book you mentioned. I love his books.

I agree with haifagirl. I think kids today recieve prizes just for doing what they are supposed to be doing without prizes. Speaking about balance- everyone has a different idea of what the balance is with giving prizes to kids.

My idea of balancing prizes is – again like haifagirl pointed out-reserved for outstanding achievement,but it should be awarded according to the capabilties of each child.