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cinderellaParticipant
When I say to let them make their own choices, I mean not completely closing them off from outside influences and forcing them to be frum. I don’t mean that you should say to your child “It’s almost Shabbos now, are you in the mood of keeping it this week?” I mean to not lock your child in his/her room so they will never watch a movie.
“(Full disclosure: I think that kids always have a choice about Judaism, whether or not you want to allow it to them.)”
Yeah, they can go off the derech of they want, but that’s not really an option. They will be basically ostracized by their family and community. But yes, technically, it is a choice.
cinderellaParticipant“That sounds to me like a different point”
You’re right. They are not really connected. But your point was somewhere in my drawn out thought process.
“It sounds now like you are saying we cannot know how special it is to be frum. That doesn’t bother me. Does it bother you?”
Yes. It does. Why wouldn’t you want to appreciate Judaism as much as you possibly could? But just to be clear, I’m not saying one has to be a Baal Tshuva to fully appreciate being frum. I’m talking about letting your children make their own choices (within reason of course) and let them come to understanding the beauty of Torah on their own.
“And what does that have to do with choices? I thought you were saying that we are not properly serving Hashem because we haven’t made a choice–to which I responded that I have made a choice.”
I did not say ‘not properly serving Hashem’. But your choice is a choice within a non-choice. Take the food example- You feed your child Oreos day in and day out. And he can decide how many Oreos he wants to eat, when to eat them… But that’s not really a choice. Same thing with your ‘choice’.
Don’t get me wrong. Living a sheltered life is safe. It’s amazing if someone is completely blocked off from any secular influences. I just think that their major choice in life was made for them. Even if they were to come to the same conclusion, it’s different when you yourself make that decision.
cinderellaParticipant“Or are you saying that people who grow up frum should think about life and Judaism, and make a personal connection with it? I do that all the time.”
Yes. But what I was trying to say was that I don’t think that someone who has always been totally frum and always dedicated to being a Shomer Torah and Mitzvos could ever really appreciate Judaism in its entirety. They have only tasted Torah. That’s all they know.
For example; everyday you feed your child the same thing. Every single day. After a while, that’s all he knows. He doesn’t appreciate it as an exciting, good food.He just eats it because that’s what he has always done, not because he wants to. He just never knew anything else.
Same thing with Judaism. I don’t believe someone who was always frum, never exposed to anything secular can fully appreciate Judaism as compared to someone who is maybe not so sheltered. Because the not-so sheltered person has a choice. And that makes the thing he chooses all the more valuable and meaningful.
Maybe I’m wrong. I don’t know because I was never the sheltered person with no real choice.
cinderellaParticipantI like what you posted big deal, thanks. And Logician, I’m not a teen. But thanks for your input.
cinderellaParticipantOkay, let me tell you how this debate came to be and you tell me what you think. I was speaking with a friend and we were discussing whether it’s a good idea to let kids watch (supervised) TV (Nick Jr. or something). I said yes, she said no.
I said yes because I don’t believe leading a sheltered life is so great. Obviously, I don’t think it’s a good idea to take kids to the movies and give them unsupervised internet access, but I do believe in being open-minded and letting them make their own decisions.
Growing up,I had friends who’s parents did not let them do anything.They weren’t allowed to go to the mall, were never allowed to watch movies,they were not allowed to go out after dark…And where did that get them? Absolutely nowhere. They had to sneak around and lie to their parents.
My parents were very relaxed. They let me make my own choices. They let me make mistakes. It is because of those mistakes that I appreciate being Jewish more than any of my friends who always led very sheltered lives.
So that’s where this debate started. And in my head, I developed it into my OP. So…what do you think??
February 24, 2012 2:00 am at 2:00 am in reply to: Memoir called "Unorthodox" and its effect on us #868936cinderellaParticipantWow soleik. That was incredible. Brave of you too. But the main difference here is what you became because of your experience and what she became.
You are an amazing person to have gone through what you did and still remain a strong, steadfast Jew. You lived through hell and came out a better person than you were before. That’s emunah. The only comparison here is the circumstances, you and her are not comparable.
I think you are an absolutely amazing person. You took what you went through and use it to help others. That is truly awesome. We can’t say the same for her.
cinderellaParticipant“Another point – most adults who live a frum lifestyle, do so by choice, not copycatting.”
I beg to differ. Most adults live a frum lifestyle because that’s how they were raised. Most of them never got the chance to choose.
cinderellaParticipantNo, you’re not getting what I’m saying. I’m trying to say; is it better to be very sheltered and not exposed to anything- or to be given the choice?
I wasn’t very clear in my OP. Sorry.
cinderellaParticipantNo problem Goq. I wish I could keep up with it but I’m just so busy. Looks like you guys are doing an awesome job on your own though 🙂
cinderellaParticipantI’m actually laughing out loud right now. I like. Thanks 🙂
P.S. The name is Cinderella…
February 23, 2012 2:26 am at 2:26 am in reply to: Wht it is time for Jews to get over the Holocaust #875952cinderellaParticipantI just typed up a whole thing but I’m too scared to post it. Oh well.
cinderellaParticipantHey, if you’re doing it by who got over 1100 on the SAT without the reading part, I get a troll thread too.
Thanks in advance.
cinderellaParticipantIs it a common household object?
It is more used by females than males or vice versa?
cinderellaParticipantI took the SAT twice. I got a 2040 the first time and a 2160 the second. I don’t remember what I got on each part but that’s the total. I don’t remember what I got on my PSAT. I think I took it in my junior year of high school.
cinderellaParticipant“Cinderella you’ve pretended to be English in anocher thread… Lol;) don’t mix up the personalities…”
Okay, I know you’re a troll so I shouldn’t be listening to you but where the heck did I pretend to be English?
cinderellaParticipantGimme a A
Gimme a M
Gimme a E
Gimme a R
Gimme a I
Gimme a C
Gimme a A
!!!!!
We Americans don’t need to brag. It’s self-understood that we are the best. It’s okay to be second best, Brits. Whew! Your [in]security complex is overwhelming. 🙂
cinderellaParticipant“If women get a vote, at least let it be an educated one. Voting while staying at home, and not having any grasp of the issues they’re voting for ? That will really help the country.”
It makes no difference whether the vote is an educated one or not. Our votes do not count. All the candidates are idiots and it really doesn’t matter who becomes president. And the electoral college really has the last word.
And our country is hopeless so who cares?
cinderellaParticipantWomen vote. Get over it. If you have a problem with that, feel free to move to China. (Actually, women can vote there, it just sounds good in context.)
And please explain the correlation between divorce rates and women voting.
cinderellaParticipant“So once upon a time I caught a salmon in Alaska, and I then I slit it open to gut it, and it was full of eggs because it was spawning. So I just grabbed one out, and ate it. Goo and all.”
*gag*
cinderellaParticipantI haven’t been posting that much recently but I’m still here 🙂 Count me in!
cinderellaParticipant“Funniest of all? When my wife puts on makeup/ eyeliner to go to the gym. And its an all woman facility!”
What’s wrong with that? I do it. Why is it any different than putting on makeup before going shopping? We like to feel pretty all day, every day.
cinderellaParticipantrealtalk- If a girl turns heads when she is wearing no makeup, is dressed completely tznius… there’s nothing she can do about it. She should try to avoid places where she would attract negative attention.
But there aren’t many people like that. There’s usually something- her attitude, the way she walks, talks… that is attracting the attention.
cinderellaParticipantWhat some people don’t get is that the point of makeup is to accentuate your God-given qualities. For example; eye makeup is to make your eyes more pronounced, blush is to make your cheekbones sharper, lip makeup is to make your mouth stand out more.
Makeup is not for creating what’s not there, it’s for playing up your good features. If you can rock the whole no makeup look- good for you. No one says you have to wear makeup. Why you wouldn’t want to though, is beyond me.
As for the whole attractive vs. attracting thing, I never got it and I never will. IMHO, it’s impossible not to be attracting unless you walk around in an opaque bubble. No matter what you look like, there is always someone out there who will be attracted to you. You just have to learn how to not ask for negative attention (which is where tznius comes in).
cinderellaParticipantI’l keep that in mind for next time but New York chinese is soo much better. You should come try it 😉
cinderellaParticipantIt is, but this time I got cooked, not fried, Major Tso and it was really bad. So now I know to go with the unhealthy version next time. But their brown rice was good 😉
cinderellaParticipantWaiting in the airport now…I decided that I like Chicago, nice place, nice people… But your airport security are annoying. I had to do the whole body scan and then got a patdown. I wonder what it is about me that looks suspicious.
So if you want to come visit me, I’m in Terminal 3.
cinderellaParticipantPeople wear makeup to feel good about themselves. You can wake up in the morning feeling so blah but bronzer, lipgloss and eyeliner can make you feel like a different person.
Maybe this girl at work has horrible skin. So she globs on the makeup. She thinks it’s pretty and classy. It’s none of your business. Stop looking.
You just feel guilt about staring at her all day so you’re making it her fault by saying that she wears too much makeup and is asking for it.
cinderellaParticipantSo I’m back in Chicago for 2 days. I was just in Jewel like 20 minutes ago, got some more useless tickets and some awesome Ten-Li Chow. So if you see me, hi!
cinderellaParticipantI get that Health, but why is it considered so wrong to lie? If it doesn’t harm anyone, why can’t you?
cinderellaParticipantHere’s another question. Why shouldn’t we lie? Why does the Torah forbid it? If it doesn’t harm someone else, why can’t you?
I head a kiruv program and I was talking to one of the not religious girls there and she asked me this. I thought about it and couldn’t think of an answer so I called somebody and he told me this: The Torah is complete truth. Hashem is complete truth. So when you lie, you are going against the Torah and Hashem.
I don’t like this answer, anyone have a different one?
cinderellaParticipantBaruch Dayan Emes. Shlomo Baruch ben Shaindel Bracha (Rabbi Shlomo Baruch Pomerantz) was just niftar yesterday. Thank you everybody for davening. He was an absolutely amazing man whos ahavas Hashem and love for every Jew inspired everybody who was zoche to meet him.
If anybody in NY wants to go to the levayah, it’s in JFK at 9:00 pm tomorrow night.
cinderellaParticipantI was in Starbucks a few times but hey, I like my anonymity. If I saw any of you, hi!
cinderellaParticipantHey! I was just in Chicago and I was in Jewel and I saw this contest and I knew what it was because of this!! I got a bunch but I threw them out because I have no use for them. So if you wat them, check the garbage outside- next to the Redbox.
cinderellaParticipantA meteor???
cinderellaParticipantGet them a skin-it. They are stickers covers for iPods, laptops, phones… You design them, you can put pictures on them… It’s a great gift. Check out the skin-it website.
cinderellaParticipantWIY- A yoga mat helps you do yoga. That would make it a tool. Also, if you are not doing yoga for exercise, but for enjoyment, it is allowed on Shabbos. Sorry if I was misleading…
cinderellaParticipantYay supergirl!! Well actually, I was thinking of a yoga mat but you’re close enough!!
Thanks for playing, everyone!
cinderellaParticipantNope.
3 more guesses…
Hint #3- …I’m running out of hints…I am squishy.
Okay people. This is waay too obvious, come on. You should be embarassed.
cinderellaParticipantWIY- I don’t know where you get your cupcakes from, but mine are way smaller than a breadbox 🙂
4 more guesses…
Hint #2- I am found at the gym.
cinderellaParticipantDon’t be yourself. It only works if you’re an amazing person.
cinderellaParticipant#20- No not a table.
Okay, no more questions- you now have 5 guesses. So think twice before posting. I’ll give a hint after each guess.
Hint #1- I am two words. A ____ ___.
cinderellaParticipant#19- Yes, I am manmade.
1 more question.
Yes or no questions only, WIY. Sorry 🙂
cinderellaParticipantThe fact that it makes sense doesn’t make it okay.
cinderellaParticipant#17- Nope, I’m not a book
#18- Not a spouse either.
Stop wasting your questions with guesses! 2 more…Give up yet???
cinderellaParticipantCan everyone please please please daven and say tehillim for:
Shlomo Baruch ben Shaindel Bracha
He is in desperate need of your tefillos. May Hashem grant him a refuah shelaima. Thanks everybody.
cinderellaParticipantI’m back 🙂
#14- No it’s not used for a sport
#15- Yes, it can be used on Shabbos.
#16- No, it’s not a container
4 questions left…
Soo, to sum up- I am not abstract, I am larger than a bread box, I am not found in a particular room of the house, I can be any color, I am not an animal, I am not a glass slipper, I am not used by an average person everyday, I am used for recreational purposes (I consider it recreational but some might disagree), I am not a pair of sunglasses, I am not only found in America, I am used as a tool to accomplish something but the something can be done without me, I am not a container, I am not used for a sport, I am able to be used on Shabbos.
What am I?????
cinderellaParticipant#10- Yes, it’s used for recreational purposes.
#11- You use it as a tool to accomplish a task. But, and I’m giving some more away here, you can do the task without it.
#12- No, it’s not sunglasses.
Crazybrit, yes or no questions only! So your first and last questions needs to be rephrased. Otherwise, they’re counted as 5 separate questions…
#13- No, it is not only found in America
7 more questions. Come on guys….
cinderellaParticipant#8- No, not really.
#9- No, no mechanical/electronic components.
9 down, 11 more to go…
cinderellaParticipant#7- nope, not a glass slipper 😉
13 more…
cinderellaParticipantOh come on Shticky Guy, I’m not going anywhere. And who cares if you have to wait a little. Today, I happened to be on my computer a lot so I was able to answer but I don’t think it’s that big a deal.
#6- No, it is not used by an average person everyday. And I’m gonna give a bit away, but some people never use it.
14 to go…
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