choppy

Rav Chaim writes in his Sefer that it’s better to daven b’yechidus than without a hat. Al achas kama v’kama that it is better to daven at home, after getting into normal pants, than to go to shul in shorts.

haskalajew vs. Gedolim.

Not everyone who is a Rov is qualified or able to led a shul, having a Board of Directors can rectify this situtation .

Incorrect. The rectification required is to get a qualified rabbi. Not a board who can overrule a rabbi.

far east: With the caveat that one must always fulfill the Torah and Halacha. That cannot be compromised in the slightest in the pursuit of a “fullfilling lifestyle”.

With all due respect to the gedolim that are against the draft, are there no gedolim that are in support of it?

If there are any that support it, their adherents can enlist. But they cannot force non-adherents of theirs, whose Gedolim forbid enlistment (as being a ??? ???), to enlist.

the more modern are run by Boards of Directors and the Rabbi is an employee of the Shul. basically if there is a dispute between the Rabbi and the Big Machers in a Charedi Shul, the Machers are gone, in the Modern Shuls the Rabbi will be gone.

Yup. That’s another problem. Which is why the rabbi’s gotta cater his decisions to the wishes of the masses, not halacha. If there’s a dispute between the machers and the rov, the rov should prevail and the machers put in their place.

“Is your goal to keep people on the derech, or is it so they lead fulfilling lifestyles. Theres a big big difference.”

First and foremost is that people be on the frum derech. That is more important than a “fulfilling lifestyle”. Certainly it is far far better that someone be on the frum derech without a “fulfilling lifestyle”, than have a “fulfilling lifestyle” when that is a frei-secular-irreligious “lifestyle”. Ideally, of course, is that one is frum AND lead a fulfilling life.

Feif said his RWMO community, although they don’t officially condone women with uncovered hair and pants, some women in his community do publicly go as such. In a LWMO community it is officially condoned.

In ANY Chareidi community — Yeshivish/Litvish, Chasidish, etc. — it is virtually unheard of for a married female community member to go with uncovered hair and/or pants. Doing so would clearly put someone outside of the community. (Unlike in the RWMO, such as Feif’s example, where it isn’t officially sanctioned, but they are accepted in shul and in the community as such.)

There are dozens of other similar examples.

Clearly MO (whether RW or LW) are more closely aligned to each other, while Chareidim (whether Litvish or Chasidish) are more closely aligned to each other. Much much more so than MO to Chareidi.

Using these groupings, clearly OTD is a much much more prevalent problem among MO than Chareidim. And your example of most of your MO classmates becoming frei, is a living example.

“Choosing to be machmir” in this case is a misnomer, since YOUR Rov may hold Hamotzi is the WRONG bracha, in this case.

Sam: LWMO is MO just as RWMO is MO.

ALL Limud Torah helps ALL Jews.

IS: And I know no OTD Chareidim, either directly or through my friends. I know of many many frei people who come from MO backgrounds.

You are correct, sorry. Itche is being absurd, not you.

At the big asifa at citi, many speakers kept pushing filters. I was there, I understand the language, and I heard it myself.

yehuda: My anecdotal evidence, from many beis yaakov’s, is not zero — but pretty close to it.

Syag: And those of the girls in your daughters class that did those things, do most of them keep Shabbos when they’re 20 or 25? You indicated most in your class, most of the class completely stopped keeping Shabbos. So even if a few in your daughters class did really wild things, it seems by time they are 25 most are still keeping Shabbos, unlike your class.

Re-characterizing your class from being MO, is like re-characterizing a guy from Lakewood who went bad as not being Chareidi.

Thou shall not post material that is against the Torah.

Both Asifa’s gave the same message. Rav Matisyahu Solomon was behind both Asifa’s. And Rav Matisyahu Solomon approved of the message — to install filters at HOME — at the Flatbush Asifa. He was sitting on the dais (and spoke) the entire Flatbush Asifa. He saw the booklets and the agenda approving of home filtering, before the Asifa.

You should have learnt not to wear shorts – or at least not if you won’t have time to change before davening.

Wrong, curiousone. In fact, the Gedolim, at the Flatbush Asifa, gave instructions on how to put a filter on HOME computers! They even gave the wives instructions on how to control family usage of the internet at HOME.

But don’t let the facts get in the way of your agenda.

The Army managed fine without Chareidim for 65 years. Even the Zionists admit they don’t need the Chareidim. They even say it will be a mess integrating Frum Jews who must be separated from women, have special kosher dietary requirements (more strict than Daati) as well as other religious needs. They say they want it, not because they need Chareidim in their Army, but because it is “only fair.”

Well, it isn’t fair the entire burden of Limud HaTorah falls entirely upon Chareidim’s shoulders. In “fairness”, protecting klal yisroel via Limud HaTorah should also be “shared” by Chilonim. Yet, they won’t do so. So, they are getting the better bargain. We Frum Jews are doing ALL the Limud Torah, while the Chilonim are doing zilch. So we’ll protect the klal with Torah and they’ll do their Army duty.

Their Army’s been managing without us for 65 years, and we’ve been managing without them for 100+ years. We need both? Great: They’ll do the Army service and we’ll do the Torah service.

optimusprime: I already made clear above, 4 and half days ago on this thread. The chilonim are 100% completely neglecting on Limud Torah to protect Klal Yisroel. So the chilonim can do the Army service and the frum will do the Limud Torah service to protect klal yisroel. A very fair tradeoff for the chilonim, with the frum (with their Limud Torah) doing much more than them.

berlin: Yeah, more than once a month the Army is trying to force frum men to sit and listen to kol isha.

And they wonder why we consider it a shaas shmad. That’s only the tip of the iceberg.

Campers are required to be back in camp by 9 pm (or so.)

A Yiddish speaking Yid and a German speaking German can virtually almost never have a conversation with each other. (They may understand a word here and there.) English is to a large degree derived from Latin and Old Norse, and yet speakers of those languages cannot have a conversation with an English speaker.

Why don’t they just wear a wig?

Sam: See Yabiah Omer Y.D. 6:7.2 when Rav Ovadia discusses the Mishnayos in Horiyos and concludes that once he has directly discussed the issue with the Sanhedrin and they have rejected his view, despite his best efforts, then the halacha becomes that he must obey them even if he is still convinced he is right.

Then you never had emunas chachomim in the first place. If when the chachomim say something that you think is “just completely out of touch with reality“, that’s when your emunas chachomim should have kicked in and deferred your personal thoughts to what the chachomim think. It is you who is out of touch while the chachomim are in touch with the Torah, which is the ultimate reality.

What made you go off and what brought you back on?

(Note: Your experiences may be vastly different, and for different reasons, than others.)