chesedname

YW Moderator-42

“our needs are more important than our wants”, that would fit well if the promise was “give masser, and you’ll have everything you need” that’s not what the promise is. if it was i would have no questions.

poseach es yadecha umasbia l’chol chai ratzon actually rabbi reisman has the same question i’m asking on masser in regards to this posuk, he says the posuk means hashem gives us what we want, and that’s obvisaly not true. but that’s not my question for now.

all the rabbonim agree that wealth is a lot of money! that was the promise and the reward, so it’s not really up for debate.

whether wealth is a million or 4 million, doesn’t make a difference, ppl don’t have either one, so the main question still remains.

and not one rav says that wealth means enough to pay your bills, so if that’s your understanding, it’s a daas yachid

cherrybim

so things in the torah aren’t meant to be taken literally?

so was shabbos a suggestion? how about gan eden maybe that was an example of what could be there after 120?

just wondering where do we start and stop? i for one grew up that the torah is 100% accurate, the gemarah on the other hand at times exaggerates a little.

volvie

lets say someone makes $40,000.00 and says enough, then yes he was rewarded with wealth. but if that is how it works why isn’t the person wanting a million dollars getting it??

based on what you’re saying the reward for masser is being happy with what you have.

besides the fact that goes against every sefer and gemarah, which says the reward is wealth, which means a lot of money.

how would you explain the ppl that give masser and are not happy with what they have? you can’t say they should learn to be happy, because that’s true for all of us, according to you the reward should mean that hashem makes everyone happy with what they have?

YW Moderator-42

no, there is no set amount to be called wealthy.

but if someone has a modest home, drives a Honda accord, etc.. and doesn’t have more than six months worth of expenses put away (again, he can collect tzedaka with less than 6 months worth) i think everyone would agree he’s not “wealthy” comfortable maybe, wealthy not.

lets do even better, shouldn’t the guy who gives masser, have at least 6 or more months worth of expenses in the bank (assuming he doesn’t have investments)

mod 42

the promise is not “to be happy with what you have” because if that was the case a pauper that gives masser, his reward is being happy and broke?? NO! the promise is wealth! and 99% of us are not wealthy.

the question is why not?

YW Moderator-42

i think every posik and rav says it does apply to masser k’safim. (otherwise you would be right)

why do i wonder if it works, or why it doesn’t? how many ppl do you know are so wealthy they say “enough already” how many frum ppl do you know that are really worth many millions? compared to the amount of yidden giving masser very few.

so it’s more than just wait it out and you’ll get the promise fulfilled.

and I’m stuck with the question, why a promise like that, doesn’t seem to come true?

cherrybim

everything you wrote is true, BUT that isn’t the promise hashem made!

the promise is anyone that gives masser will be so wealthy they won’t be able to say stop giving, enough times. the question is why that promise doesn’t seem to come true.

to make the question stronger, hashem says you can even test me on it, and this is the only time we’re allowed to test hashem.

so yes we have to be thankful for what we have, and be happy with it, but why doesn’t the PROMISE and GUARANTEE seem to work??

I would like all top stories, from all over the world, as soon as page opens, and on top.

that’s really why i come here, the coffee room is just dessert

It has more to do with genes than what you eat.

i was planning on making 2 points, one was made by oomis1105 so I’ll jump to the second.

I believe that if a holy person says do 15 jumping jacks and xyz will happen, it will happen! but i don’t think if someone prints doing 15 jumping jacks will bring you xyz, that it will! it helped me because the holy person said it will. so it’s not the jumping jacks that works but the holy persons blessing

<X>yourtexthere</X>

all chinease to me,

i wouldn’t know where to start

YW Moderator-80

does it take you 5 minutes to post? or being no one is checking what you send, it goes right away? 🙂

YW Moderator-80

is there anyway we can have colors, underline, bold, different fonts etc.. as an option?

WolfishMusings

I like many others enjoy a good debate, but now we’re going in circles so this is my last post on the subject, unless something new is posted.

You seem to think that splitting the yeshivas up into two schools is somehow the government’s responsibility. when did i say that? i never said or implied that.

It’s not. If a yeshiva wants to try this to get around the state constitution, then they are free to try. No one at the state level is stopping them from splitting their schools in two.

The reason they aren’t doing it is because they can actually the constitution for themselves and see that even a secular school that is owned by a religious organization is ineligible for state funding. Your refusal to see this point is most mind-boggling.

what’s mind boggling is how little you seem to know about politics and life. if there was a meeting between the state and local yeshivas, and the state was convinced they want to help us with tuition, (not that they should or have to, again my point is if they wanted to help us they can) they will say OK I’m sold, but we have a legal issue, the yeshivas can say (this is one of a hundred ideas) we will have 2 schools both renting space from a 3rd entity (a church can rent space from you, doesn’t mean you own a church or that you’re a priest)now the state is helping ONLY a secular school with no religious affiliation!!

You seem to think that if the state wanted to, it could simply wish away the Blaine amendment. But government doesn’t work that way — despite your assertions to the contrary. it actually does, take your head out of the sand and you’ll see the government can and does do as it pleases, it bends laws, it breaks laws, it changes them as it pleases. welcome to politics, but it is what it is!

i don’t have the time, but if you open your mind you’ll see how politicians, judges etc.. do with the law as they see fit. look at decisions from courts, go to your local DMV and sit there for an hour, one is found guilty and the judge winks at the officer, while another person is found not guilty and we know the judge hates that cop.

I can only try

wow you’re humble and honest too, hope your spouse appreceates.

although you can ask why on a lot of things, this is one thing that hashem says test me! so it’s very hard to understand why he’s failing his test?

also when i test you, and you fail i get something, when hashem says test me what do we get if he does fail?

as far as ask a rav why it appears the bracha doesn’t work, i have and they doin’t have an answer, the aruch hashulchan says he doesn’t know why it doesn’t work as well.

http://www.factnet.org/headlines/give-away.htm

look at 4th period or dot. which states “Scientology would receive a special religious education tax deduction for its members. Scientologists can deduct tens — sometimes hundreds — of thousands of dollars per year for their private religious education. This kind of religious education deduction appears not to be available to Catholics, Protestants, or Jews sending their children to private religious schools. The Tax Notes Journal published by the prestigious Tax Analysts’ organization, a nonprofit organization which provides information relating to U.S. tax laws, also noticed this most unusual inequity. According to Tax Analysts, The IRS’s Revenue Ruling 93-73 may give a tax break to the Church of Scientology which is not shared by other churches.”

Basically they get a tax exemption other religious institutes don’t receive.

As far as NY state law, there are ways around everything, I don’t know why you’re not getting it. If NYS wanted to give us money, there are a million way they can.

1) Change the law without a vote, not every law needs a vote.

2) Make 2 seperate schools one is religous one is not, I mentioned this before you chose to ignore it.

3) Call it “lunch” money or “computers” or pay 4k per child for transportation, again if NYS wanted to give the money they know how to do it.

4) Don’t give the schools money but give parents a break in taxes, for “private” schooling, nothing to do with religion.

The main point I was making, and still trying to make, is we don’t get money because they don’t want to give it, not because it’s illegal.

wolf read and learn

hear is part of the paragraph i sent

“Scientologists can deduct tens — sometimes hundreds — of thousands of dollars per year for their private religious education. This kind of religious education deduction appears not to be available to Catholics, Protestants, or Jews sending their children to private religious schools.”

it states clearly they get a tax break for education (tuition), not donations. it even says catholics, protestants, and Jews don’t get that deduction!

Have you actually read the paragraph I quoted?

YES and I’ll say it again and again, if we get money for the “secular studies” the state is NOT paying for anything religious.

we can even have 2 names one for religious studies and one for strictly secular, this way the money goes to the secular school only!!!

I don’t know if i’m allowed to send links here, but i copied and pasted, look at line 9 and 10

What Scientology got in its secret IRS deal

The IRS agreed to dismiss all tax penalties and liens against Scientology organizations for an undisclosed number of years before 1993.

The IRS would grant tax-exempt status to 114 Scientology-related entities in the U.S. This stipulation itself gives Scientology an ongoing financial benefit of an estimated $100 million per year.

The IRS would drop its tax audits of the mother church, the Church of Scientology International (CSI), and 12 other Scientology organizations.

Scientology would receive a special religious education tax deduction for its members. Scientologists can deduct tens — sometimes hundreds — of thousands of dollars per year for their private religious education. This kind of religious education deduction appears not to be available to Catholics, Protestants, or Jews sending their children to private religious schools. The Tax Notes Journal published by the prestigious Tax Analysts’ organization, a nonprofit organization which provides information relating to U.S. tax laws, also noticed this most unusual inequity. According to Tax Analysts, The IRS’s Revenue Ruling 93-73 may give a tax break to the Church of Scientology which is not shared by other churches.

The IRS would cancel payroll taxes and penalties it had assessed against church entities and officials.

The IRS’s Exempt Organizations Technical Division was “instructed not to review the exemption applications filed by the Church of Scientology and its affiliates for compliance with non-profit IRC 501(c)(3) tax regulations.”

The IRS agreed not to audit the church for any year before 1993 and dropped its litigation in pursuit of church records.

WolfishMusings

You’re actually wrong on all 3 points

1) while technically we can go to public schools, the fact is, it cost them between 8k and 15k per student per year. if we or any other group says we would like a better school system (forget religion) and it cost us less than what you’re paying now, so help us with 4k a year, per student per year, there is no good reason they can’t or don’t do so.

2) of course taxes are based on usage, if a municipality estimates there are 400 police calls a year, 400 calls for ambulance, and 400 fires per year, they know how much staff they need and that’s part of the taxes.

if the call volume doubled so would the staff and that part of the tax bill.

3) why not? if i feel the public school system does a lousy job, or has some tough kids running around with weapons as long as the alternative is cheaper the state should have no problem with it.

as far as hatzoloh they do get money, not as much as they need, but they do get money

I can only try

you can start by looking at gemara shabbos 119A

look at halachos sefarim, where we paskin it’s mostly a minhag, if you need me to quote the halacha sefarim let me know.

1) Does one get an aveirah every time he forgets? that’s what’s brought down, but i think it only applies if he was negligent and that’s why he forgot

2) Is the prohibition violated right away, even as you’re learning, or only after a while? as soon as you forget it

3) Is there a certain amount of reviews after which you don’t have to worry about this? if a person is engrossed in learning it might not apply, i think it applies if you don’t learn consistently and that’s why you’re blamed for forgetting your learning

4) What’s considered difficult in that if you can’t remember it it’s an oneis? What if you understand it,but know you’ll lose it or have already lost it?

5) After 120, will I remeber what I have forgotten? YES, you’ll only know what you’ve learnt in the past

6) Should you chazer something you’ve already forgotten, if you think you’ll forget again? yes

7) Is there a problem with listening to Divrei Torah since I know I can’t memorize an entire speech? What about the Seder? no problem the more you learn the more you’ll remember even if it’s a different topic

8) Do you have to remember everyhting, or just the main details?

9) How often should I chazer? I heard to review when you’re memory span is at it’s limit, but I sometimes forget while I’m leanring, so… 4 times

10) I literally can not do anything without something going on in the back of my head, which is a part of the problem. I’ve tried madicatin, long story. Does this affect anything, since it means I am not concentrating 100 perecent? no

11) Is something learnt silently considered learning? yes

12) How do I do teshuvah for this? learn, spend more time learning

13) How is it possible for anyone to review everything they’ve learnt regularly enough to remeber it all? not possible

14) How can I go onto new things If I can’t even hold onto the old things? when learning new things old things come back to you

15)Do you need to be able to remember everything instantly, or is it enough to be able to remeber details if asked specifically about them?

ppl keep in mind the camp usually charges x amount for a summer lets say 3k, they look at the fact they don’t charge the counselor as paying them 3k because they gave them room or board.

I’m not saying it’s right or wrong, side there are always 2 sides to look at things.

and as i said before this is simple business 101 supply and demand, as long as ppl are running to work for 5/hr or even free that’s what they’ll get paid.

if every bus driver said they won’t work for less then 100/hr and the city can’t find a replacement for less, guess what the bus driver will be getting paid???