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“1) NO ONE DISAGREES that kibuyi on YT is assur, even when done to prevent loss,”
“except when it can be categorized as ochel nefesh.”
“2) NO ONE DISAGREES that the same applies to lowering the flame even if part of it, such as a pilot light, remains lit.”
“3) NO ONE DISAGREES that removing fuel from a fire that causes an immediate change in the intensity of the fire is kibuyi.”
“4) NO ONE DISAGREES that we have numerous Poskim including 3 published teshuvos from Reb Moshe that kibuyi would also apply to blocking the flow of gas into the fire, and we have not yet found any source to differentiate.”
“Rumors of anonymous “talmidim and family members” do NOT count as a source.”
Mayim Achronim Vasser
JayMatt19: In interesting that first recipe; the chicken is first baked covered for 30 minutes and then uncovered for 30 minutes. In recipe #2 it’s first baked uncovered and then covered. Do you have a s’vara?
Also in #2, I assume “Stir in thyme, paprika, salt, and pepper” is into the flour.
These recipes can be easily adapted for Pesach by substituting potato starch for flour.
PM:
Rav Heinemann’s response to the Kol Koreh regarding raising or lowering temperatures on Yom Tov on ovens equipped with the Sabbath Mode feature:
Written T’shuva (Note the first letter of every paragraph in T’shuva):
PM:
If you have the time, in between feedings, you will find with a little bit more research, that there is no question whatsoever about Rav Moshe’s shita concerning GAS ranges.
HaQer: If you’re looking for chumras, then according to these shitas, the CD/tape player or even the radio becomes the “Klei Shir”; making the singing (without music) assur as well.
Joseph, if you put it that way, then you are RIGHT. Sorry for the confusion. But certainly, if she was in the school previously, my statement is all-the-more RIGHT.
Rabbiofberlin: I just started reading this thread and I think your last posts very “enlightening” and if were submitted earlier, Oomis would have been spared a lot of grief.
Rav Moshe’s shita: Modern ranges, as you said, produces a flame because gas is constantly fed to the burner, like someone throwing logs into a fire from a pile. If someone were to hold this person’s hand, preventing further throwing of the logs, the fire would go out. So too, held Rav Moshe with gas ranges: when the knob is turned to lower the gas or to turn it off completely, it is NOT “kibui” but rather withholding the fuel (logs) from burning. So it has nothing directly to do with cooking per se. Therefore, holds Rav Moshe, lowering or tuning off the flame on Yom Tov is permissible.
Those who argue, say that the source of the fuel and the cut-off knob is too close to the fire and the burner reaction is too quick for Rav Moshes’s s’vara to be valid.
Regarding electric ranges, raising and lowering can only be accomplished with a single coil burner. Many electric ranges have a double coil and adjusting the heat for cooking purposes would not be permitted.
If these items were already mentioned, I apologize.
I was very nearsighted; having -700 vision. About ten years ago, after almost a lifetime of squinting and glasses, I went for lasik laser surgery and now have perfect 20-20 vision.
If you are a candidate, go for it. Everyone I know who had it done is very happy with the results and it sure beats contacts. The costs can be unbelievably low.
The actual surgery takes less than a minute and I have never heard of anyone (who followed post-op directives)regretting the decision.
Cantoresq: I’m mostly with Joseph and Feivel on this one.
I think it’s very admirable that you are capable of preparing a talmud shiur for the mispalilim of your shul.
But if it was me attending your shiur, because it’s Shabbos, it would be a different learning if your mode of dress was perceived to reflect proper respect both to the learning and those attending the shiur and of course to the holy Shabbos.
Shabbos should be accorded at least the amount of respect for dress as your weekly business attire. What kind of message would a gifted attorney send the court if he argued his case in casual dress?
How you “relax” b’tzena, in the privacy of your home, is one thing, but I don’t believe that your relaxation should be extended to a “mikdash m’at”, your shul.
Why do you wear a suit in the morning but not the rest of Shabbos, it’s no less special? How would you or the others feel if your Rav dressed in this fashion, especially in shul?
I didn’t get it then and I still don’t get it now. You’re assuming I know about “blockquotes” and “backticks”, etc.
I need a hands on walk through.
Could someone please explain to me in plain English what the following two lines is all about:
Allowed markup: a blockquote code em strong ul ol li.
You can also put code in between backtick ( ` ) characters.
Thanks.
Have a look at this chat from months ago http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/good-forwards/page/3#post-51327
The purpose of the backticks is to prevent auto-spacing. It is used primarily in the pictures people put up (like the hangman board).
So I guess when it comes to Minhag HaMakom, some people pick and choose those minhagim which suit them best.
Pashuteh Yid – good ha’ara, but what happens when there are multiple Sifrei Torah on Yom Tov or Shabbos; the bal k’riah and amud ha’torah have their backs to the Torah?
Many shuls are set up with tables so that the mispallalim’s backs are to the Aron or Shulchan but it’s not l’chatchila. It needs (or at one time needed) to be done because of space issues. The problem is that, in time, many b’dee’eveds become l’chatchilas, and the b’dee’eveds are not corrected when the opportunity presents itself.
Jothar – “Tznius is a serious issue, ie halachic not just hashkafic, and it has become a problem even among some kollel wives.”
I not disagreeing, but how do explain away the wives and daughters of yeshiva rabbeim, rabbonim, and revered roshei yeshiva in the 1960’s and 70’s; their dress norm is scorned in the CR today, i.e., sheer material, inches above the knee dress lengths, inches above the elbow sleeves, and lower necks. We have the photographic evidence as proof for any doubters.
WHY did these husbands and fathers give their approval at that time? Did they know something about halacha and human nature that we don’t? These women were not driven out of town, but it’s interesting, with time they too changed, on their own.
And why are you picking on the women only; are to z’freedin (satisfied/happy)with the new influx of men; with their mode of dress and mannerisms and minhagim?
The good people of Lakewood should work on their own midos and ahavas yisroel so that others in the Lakewood community, who have not yet attained the ultimate level of erlichkeit, will admire and be inspired to emulate these halachic role models.
The real success of Lakewood will be the demise of all these issues, but it’s not going to happen using Ayatollah tactics in America.
Jothar – “Tznius is a serious issue, ie halachic not just hashkafic, and it has become a problem even among some kollel wives.”
I not disagreeing, but how do explain away the wives and daughters of yeshiva rabbeim, rabbonim, revered roshei yeshiva in the 1960’s and 70’s; the dress norm is scorned in the CR today, i.e., sheer dresses, inches above the knee dress lengths, inches above the elbow sleeves, and lower necks. We have the photographic evidence as proof for any doubters.
WHY
These women were not driven out of town, but it’s interesting, with time they to changed.
Jothar- “On Pesach, we point to the matza and marror when we say matza zu and marror zeh. So why not point to the Torah when we say Zos Hatorah?”
Yes, but we don’t kiss our finger when pointing at the matza.
When we touch a davar sh’bikdusha, the holiness is tranferred over to our hand and we can kiss it, i.e., kissing: a sefer; a mezuzah; sefer torah; t’felin; s’fardim kiss their hand after shaking the hand of an adom chashuv.
The order is never reversed; we do not kiss our hand and touch it to the object.
So even if what you say is correct; what’s with the kissing?
oomis1105 – “Personally, I would love to see the restaurants that allow large families with noisy and ill-behaved kids in their establishment later on in the evening, to be censured for that…I want to be able to enjoy the ambience”
I have no problem leaving the restaurant after being seated if the noise level is too umbareable for me (I have a low tolerence); and many times it’s the grown-ups. But I digress..
I can only try: Facinating S’aila. This week’s Daf Yomi in Baba Metzia deals with the (sometimes overlapping) issues of Ribis and Asmachta.
For anything complicated in Ribis and Asmachta, you must have a competent Rav decide (ya hear PM) and ideally with both parties involved.
Are there any (Rosh)Yeshivos in America doing it?
I can only try: Although I did apologize in advance; it was an “asmachta”. Why? Because any RAV who spends time in the CR, is no Rav in my book.
Also, we’re not talking “shvere sugyos” halacha here, the Mishna B’rura was quite clear concerning our discussion.
And from my read, a number of CRers seem to hold up quite well when it comes to halachic topics, including PM.
While the Internet is no substitute for intensive halacha textual learning with a Rav, PM is right in that there are a number of pretty good Internet sites with renowned Rabbonim and Poskim providing discussions and p’sak halacha on various questions and topics.
PM – “If you have a question in Halacha the best thing to do is to ask a Rav, not a blog.”
Unless of course it’s PM who is doing the blogging. A quick look into CR archives under PM will reveal numerous PM opinions in Halacha, not that there’s anything wrong with that.
If the title is RAV PM, then I do apologize.
Squeak: M’gosh, I’m so hurt.
“It’s not my p’sak; just quoting the MB.” refers to the Pri M’gadim brought down by the MB regarding a Bima (platform) creating its own r’shus. NOT IMPLIED.
The “(implied from MB)” concerns the height of the Shulchan as gleaned from other Rabbonim/poskim who “implied from MB” since they quote from the source which I have supplied the link twice, yet you say that you hadn’t seen it.
I accept your apology in advance.
I’d love to participate but the mod keeps deleting my posts.
Yes he was, but then the Shulchan would probably be permitted to be lower than ten tefachim. Once the shulchan is higher than 10 tefachim, it creates its own r’shus, even without a Bima platform (implied from MB).
squeak: It’s not my p’sak; just quoting the MB. It seems the MB wasn’t bothered by it.
hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=14164&pgnum=47&hilite=
Didn’t Lakewood have an Orthodox community before the Yeshiva was established?
I’ll take this one step further: There are a number of catering halls where mixed seating at the seuda is not a permitted option; including members of the same family and even on Shabbos. Many of these halls also require a mechitza in addition to the separate seating.
Squeak: A tefach is only 4 inches and most Bimas are at least 40 inches high, so even without the platform, the Bima is probably in it’s own reshus.
Azi: Rav Moshe also holds that we do not get up for special leinings, such as the Aseres HaDibros, since the entire Torah is of equal importance.
It was also done to a Midwood pizza shop on Avenue J a few years ago.
bein_hasdorim: Didn’t you see the m’kor in the Shuchan Aruch with a discussion in the MB on the link above? Copy and paste link below to the address bar for SA and MB text:
hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=14164&pgnum=47&hilite=
A little further down from the earlier halacha, the Mishnah Brura says that although you can’t normally have your back to the Torah, when it’s being leined on a Bima, it’s ok since the Bima is in it’s own R’shus (see below):
hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=14164&pgnum=47&hilite=
The Mishna Brurah advises making a brocha facing the open Torah, but to close the eyes while doing so (open link below):
hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=14164&pgnum=42&hilite=
At least twenty years ago, I was involved with a secular Jewish non-profit agency which had their big convention on the west coast that year. Since about 10% of the delegates were Orthodox (modern), this organization had begun serving Kosher meals; initially just to those who ordered them and subsequently the entire convention was kosher.
So that year, for the first time due to a lay person macher, the Orthodox Union(OU) was hired to be in charge of kosher supervision at the hotel.
It was Friday night and about 150 frum delegates had their seperate seuda in one room and in a much larger room were several hundred other delegates with their program and meal.
Anyway, at the start of the seuda, an agency official who was with the larger group comes running in to see me and is all excited. This fellow is ranting that the OU is not allowing the food to be served and that I should take care of the situation.
I spoke to the Rav Hamachshir and he indicated that the group insisted on having the microphone on and he refused to serve the food under these conditions. I asked whether this made a difference to the kashrus of the food and if this was OU policy.
The Rav Hamachshir (who later was responsible for the entire OU west coast kashrus) explained that the Chillul Shabbos put a P’gum in the food and OU policy for this situation was created that night.
Anyway, the program (with mike) waited until after the food was served.
Will Hill: I think you’re wrong.
Herring is top secret.
Gravalux: There are various recipes on line and they are probably all good. You can’t go wrong since after the salt and sugar you can improvise and experiment on your own. A few days in the fridge and it’s ready. I tried adding dill and pickling spice during the process and when the gravalux was ready, I rinsed the salmon and cut into small chunks. I have also tried mixing the gravalux with mayo and onion and a little liquid for another day or so. Hmm Hmm.
A600KiloBear: You mean a rally for Shabbos that actually demonstrates the beauty of Shabbos? Hey, that’s a very clever and unique thought. You know what that means; you want a demonstration for Shabbos that doesn’t cause Chillul Shabbos. Interesting.
So you want to know my eating habits? OK, here goes: Actually, I’m totally a non-picky eater and enjoy just about any food that’s made well (except peanut butter and jelly sandwiches).
Anyway, it doesn’t bother me at all when foods get mixed together on my plate. However, I do have a son-in-law that needs a new plate for every serving, just like his father does; so I guess it’s a learned trait.
Also, while I can eat a sandwich with various meats, I just enjoy being faithful to one meat at a time. Lettuce/tomato is ok with the meats but I can do without the ketchup or mustard. In addition to overpowering the meat taste they are prone to making the bread soggy.
My favorite ice cream is vanilla; drinks are bourbon; and make my own herring and gravalux.
I think this comes down to the old machlokis with regard to Kiruv:
With the intention of Kiruv, are you allowed (or even encouraged) to invite non-frum Yiden to your home for a Shabbos meal or Pesach Sedar knowing that they will drive and be violate Issurim?
How often does the food arrive a few minutes before Shabbos and you know that these non-frum delivery people are going back and traveling on Shabbos; but the Hechsher is tops, so enjoy.
Feivel- “i have a feeling he is destined to play a large role in HaKodeshBarachu’s plan.”
Feivel, that goes for every world leader, all the time.
Rav Schnier Kotler ZT’L changed his father’s direction.
Chaverim, I am deeply troubled that you’re troubled, but facts are facts. It may have been a bottom line business decision.
Lakewood’s gashmius philosophy over the past forty years has very little in common with what Rav Aharon Kotler espoused.
One example: Rav Aharon very strongly advised and encouraged his talmidim to seek and marry girls from poor families; reason being that they would have lower expectations for material items and thus their husbands could devote more time and energy to their true task…learning.
Mod: Nu, zug dem emes.
Every survivor has a story or stories about how or why they endured the war. If your parents or grandparents remained alive after those years then you are part of their survival too. It’s also amazing when you realize that most survivors would not have met and married each other if not for the holocaust. And we, the children and grandchildren, would also not exist.
YW Moderator-72: feivel’s recipe is perfect; he’s not making a chulent, ya know.
I could never understand mixing different meat tastes together in a sandwich. Instead of getting the full thrust of the pastrami or corn beef, your way mod is you taste a hint of one meat and then a moment later you might get a hint of another meat flavor. Why torture yourself with a taste tease when you don’t have to?
“I slightly tilt the turkey so that the legs/thighs drain slightly over the white meat (if that makes sense – hard to explain really) so that the juices run down that way. Keeps it nice and moist.”
Does that mean that you bake the turkey with breast down, otherwise, how do the bottom dark meat juices get to the white meat? Also, do you use a rack to hold the turkey?
If your interested, I have a way to keep the white meat moist while the bird is cooking and will finish the same time as the dark meat, but it’s a patchke.
By using bones that are already baked, do they really give that much more flavor, especially with 10 cups of water? And if the bird is 4 pounds, how much useable carcass do you have, a pound maybe?
I usually cut away boney parts of chicken and meat and store them in the freezer until I’m ready to make soup. Also the mesh soup bags are fantastic.
anon for this: “I roast a chicken (about 4 lbs) for Shabbos & use the carcass & leftover scraps to make a chicken broth.”
You use the carcass after it’s roasted? Can’t be.
To Obamanaz v’Pashuteh Yid:
“Amolege tzeiten”, G’dolim were well versed in all aspects of the sciences and music and philosophy and even literature; granted though it may not have been learned through formal education. In more recent times, we have had G’dolim and have G’dolei Torah who have studied in universities in Europe and also in the United States, including Yeshivas Rav Yitzchok Elchonon (YU).
Just as there is no one Rav for everyone, so is there no one yeshiva or one derech of learning for everyone. Someone who may shteig in learning in one yeshiva may not have the same hatzlacha in another.
So let’s stop with all the loshon harah about various yeshivas and g’dolim.
From your logic, any yeshiva or tzadaka or individual who seeks and receives government funding or advocates for politicians with pro gay shitas is also endorsing the government’s shita regarding gays.
It’s a fact that YU is a cash cow for Yeshivas Rav Yitzchok Elchonon and the high school which have deficits totaling $millions each year. So if you want Yeshivas Rav Yitzchok Elchonon, which of course does not advocate gay or toeiva, to refuse funding from YU, then you need to hold all yeshivas and tzadakas and individuals to the same standard and they have to refuse funding from sources who do advocate these abominable lifestyles and behaviors.