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I Personally feel that yes, if a rav says a psak Halacha, there’s no reason to argue against it since it’s Halacha, but when a rav says something that is just a matter of opinion, one is entitled to argue. And you shouldn’tbe intimidated by intellectual men. You don’t need that much intellect to Have an opinion and argue it.
And poppa, I have a feeling you’re the kind of person who enjoys playing the devil’s advocate…
Actualy, it is not generalizing since I am referring to the girls that I know that do not want to marry a learning boy, while you’re talking about a general population of girls. But that’s besides the point. If one really believed that the right thing for him was to work, then he would only want to marry a girl who wants to marry someone who works. Therefore he should not be worrying about those certain fickle girls who don’t know their own minds. And I can assure you that there are plenty of very good, frum, and mature woman out there who do not want to marry a learning boy. PLENTY.
And yenting, I completely agree with you. For the reasons that you state, I fully appreciate my high school. But it seems like that’s how it is with most out of time schools (which is what my high school is considered although it is a very large bias yaakov…) they tend to be more open-minded. But yes, my school is smart enough to realize that brainwashing it’s girls to believe an opinion is usually counterproductive.
When I say many woman are not fickle, I am not generalizing since I know many woman, however your statement applies To “the girls” and I take it you don’t know every girl. But anyway, I did not mean that post as a personal attack, I was merely stating that when people say things like all girls want learning boys and therefore all girls are shallow, it just seems like you are trying to make excuses for yourself…but I could be wrong-I don’t know you and I wouldn’t want to generalize.
And bpt, I partially agree with you. It’s true that boys don’t have to learn all day to be talmidei chachamim (just look at Rabbeinu Tam and the other tosfot), but if one has the opportunity to learn all day (and one’s wife agrees) than why not? I just think that the fact that learning was made into “the thing to do” (it’s not as much in the out of town communities) is very wrong. But it would be extreme to indirectly force all boys to work.
Hashem knows what gender it’s going to be. But I heard that there are five possible people a person could marry, depending on what stage they’re in of life. Also, the person that’s announced that one is destined to marry, that’s the person they would marry only if they’re on the madreiga they’re supposed to be on.
Actually popa_bar_abba, what you say is partially incorrect. Many girls are not as fickle as you think; it sounds to me like you’re a bit bitter about something in this topic. Many very frum girls do not want to marry a learning boy. They appreciate what dedicating one’s life to torah means, however they know that practically that doesn’t always work. Personally, I would not want to marry a learning boy. Not just from the practical side, but also for other reasons. I grew up with a doctor father, two brothers are currently in medical school, and two brothers-in law in other health care professions. Although my siblings and I did grow up in a “working” home, we learnt to appreciate what torah is (my father takes EVERY single opportunity to learn.)Interestingly, one of my brothers in now in kollel. But this mentality didn’t just come from home. In fact, contrary to your beliefs, you’ll find that many girls’ (as well as boys’) schools educate their students as to the aspects of both lifestyles. They don’t put down working (it says in the kesuba that it is a man’s responsibility to support his wife, and if it’s not possible for a man to learn full time due to financial or shalom bayis reasons, it is even recommended that he go out to work-I have this on word of a very well-known Rebbitzen) however they do teach that torah is our blueprint for life, and if one sacrifices one’s life for torah, their merit is great. I know I went off on a little tangent here, but I’m just trying to tell you that there are many very good, frum girls who want to marry a working boy (of course they don’t want someone who’s working just because he hates to learn torah). I think that people who say that the “frummer” girls all want learning boys are just deluding themselves. It happens to be that I know many girls who are Rabbi’s daughters who want to marry working boys, and many not so frum girls who want to marry a learning boy just for the sake of doing what’s “normal” (and of course, as I always say, “normal is just a setting on the washing machin-it’s all relative.”