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February 3, 2019 12:35 pm at 12:35 pm in reply to: Why do people get nervous when they fly? #1672900Cessna172Participant
@knaidlach
I highly doubt that is the reason people are nervous to fly. The mask is extremely simple to use. Before every flight the flight attendants preform a demonstration.
There is only need for oxygen if the flight will be above 14500 ft. Many general aviation aircraft are not pressurized so if you fly that high you need to bring supplemental oxygen.
Therefore, since there is no “mask” needed on a general aviation plane, people should not be nervous to fly.Cessna172ParticipantAnother great example of a pilot able to pull off the impossible because he kept his cool. if he would’ve panicked and tried to land at an airport, the results could’ve c”v been worse than 9/11.
B”H there were no fatalities.Cessna172ParticipantAirplanes
Cessna172ParticipantAs a pilot, I know how many factors go into making a flight leave on time, and that if only a few don’t work out, delays or cancellations happen. To you it may seem ridiculous, to me its making 100% sure I’m not being mechalel Shabbos.
If your Rav says to do something different, go ahead and listen to him. Its called listening to daas Torah.Cessna172ParticipantSo flying is safer than boats too.
It seems that flying is the safest mode of travel.Cessna172ParticipantB”H I never experienced wake turbulence. I was told that if you are high enough and seat belted, it can be quite a shock but not dangerous. You will just do a few rolls in the air until you regain control.
If a boat flips, I’m sure the outcome is very different.Cessna172ParticipantWould anyone here fly on Thursday from Israel to America?
Cessna172ParticipantThe latest YWN article about the F-15 losing its canopy and landing safely, is a prime example of a pilot keeping calm, despite the shock he must have had.
DRAMATIC AUDIO: Israeli F-15 Pilots Lose ENTIRE CANOPY At 30,000 Feet – Land Plane Safely
January 6, 2019 4:33 pm at 4:33 pm in reply to: New Ongoing Story, please add your continuations. #1657895Cessna172ParticipantBaruch decided to visit his brother in law. He booked a flight and was on his way shortly after. Soon after takeoff the plane suddenly started to descend rapidly. A panicked flight attendant called over the intercom “the pilot just had a heart attack! Does anyone know how to fly a plane?” Baruch quickly ran to the cockpit, as he had just gotten his pilots license.
Cessna172ParticipantDo you finish it when you land:)
Cessna172ParticipantOr think of a surfer in a wave pool. As long as the water is moving towards him fast enough, he stays afloat, even though to an observer he appears stationary. As the water slows, it becomes harder and he eventually sinks.
Cessna172ParticipantA plane flying is dependent on the angle of attack (AOA) as @dovidbt said. The faster the airspeed, the AOA decreases, as do the chances of stalling. The slower the airspeed, AOA increases, increasing the chance of a stall. If the AOA increases more than 18 degrees, a plane will stall even with its nose down.
If a plane is flying downwind at an airspeed of 80kts, and the wind is 35kts, assuming the plane has a stall speed of 50kts, the plane will stall unless more power is added. That’s why its important to plan ahead and know the wind direction/speed before the flight.Cessna172ParticipantI was told by a rebbi (this is a chumra, not halacha) that when traveling I should leave twice the amount of time it takes to travel before Shabbos. E.G. If its a 2 hour drive, leave 4 hours before Shabbos minimum.
When it comes to flying general aviation, if you plan on an hour flight, expect it to take around 3 hours (preflight, parking, tie- down, delays, weather, traffic…) and you’ll be fine. it usually will be a lot less, but this way you will never be rushed.
When it comes to flying airlines, you need to plan for more time, especially international. A flight to Israel usually takes around 10 hours. Add in drive to the airport, check-in, security, delays, taxiing, unloading plane, passport control (the lines can sometimes take 45 minutes), customs, baggage collection and drive to destination… and the time can easily reach 16- 20 hours, even more. If you double it that’s around 40 hours minimum before Shabbos. If you want to get to your destination early and not the last minute, give yourself a few more hours.
I personally have never flown to Israel later than Wednesday night.
As I said above, this is just what I was told to do by a rebbi. Different rebbeim say to do different things, do what your rebbi says.Cessna172Participant@MTG
I’m more afraid of turbulence than actually flying.There is nothing dangerous with turbulence. Only a few rare times has it actually caused injuries. There are many different types of turbulence, and only a few can actually do damage. Wherever any of these types are, (usually around thunderstorms) pilots stay far away. Otherwise turbulence is just annoying. Think about a boat on water. Boats can ride pretty big waves, without suffering any damage. Turbulence is just a “wave” of wind. The plane might move up and down, sometimes even pretty fast, but its not dangerous.
Cessna172ParticipantYes, phobias are irrational, but they can be conquered. Most people who have phobias of flying, if they go flying in a small plane, and they get put in front of the controls, the phobia disappears. I know someone who does this all the time, and he has a 90% success rate.
Fun fact: I have a fear of heights. If I go on the third step of a ladder, I start panicking and start freezing up.
It has never affected me in a plane, even during stalls or spins.Cessna172ParticipantIf the brakes fail on the highway during traffic or by a red light, most people will crash, and depending on the speed of the car it will be fatal. Nobody practices these if any emergencies in a car. Some people know what to do, but if c”v something does happen, they will panic and crash.
By planes, if something breaks, there is always time to react. Even if something happens, c”v, pilots trained for it.
We simulate engine failure all the time. My instructor pulled the throttle at random times, takeoff, landing, during climb out, and random times during the flight. Throughout my flights I always look out for places to land, just in case.
Pilots also practice stalls. Many also practice spins.
There is a major difference between planes and cars.Cessna172Participant@GRATEFULBLAC
I don’t know if all this will help but…
Something probably made you nervous to fly.
Perhaps your previous flight had some turbulence which might have made you uncomfortable enough to not want to fly again. Maybe there was a plane crash on the news. It could have been anything.
Research what every bump and noise during a flight is, landing gear, flaps, change in engine power etc.
Look up all the difference types of turbulence there is, and see that it is almost impossible for a large airliner to go down because of turbulence. Maybe even look up different airline accidents, see the cause, and what response airlines took to make sure it never happens again.
I know someone that had a phobia of flying. One flight they met one of their pilots and he explained everything (above) to him. Since then he is a lot more comfortable flying, and even enjoys it.Cessna172ParticipantSo basically to sum everything up, people don’t understand anything about general aviation. Because they don’t understand it, they view it with apprehension and even downright fear. Then they try to rationalize this fear by convincing everyone its dangerous.
Cessna172Participant@DovidBT
No rental company would let you fly unless you show them your logbook, which would show that you aren’t current.Was it a towered airport or non towered airport
Cessna172Participant@DovidBT
In addition to renewing your medical certificate every five years, every 2 once your 40, you also have to take a flight review. Its basically another flying lesson with a flight instructor, in which he makes sure you are up do date with all of the maneuvers, straight and level, stalls, slow flight, emergency procedures etc.You also need to do 3 takeoffs and landings every 90 days in order to fly passengers.
Cessna172ParticipantPeople are not scared to fly in a small plane because of the pilot, they are scared to fly in a small plane just because it is a small plane.
Cessna172Participant@2scents
What if that same pilot with all that flying experience and training were to offer you a ride in a small plane, would you take it. My flight instructor was in the Israeli Air Force for ten years, flight instructor for 30, and has trained many airline pilots (many El- Al pilots), and still people are scared to fly with him.Cessna172Participant@CTLAWYER
There have been many fatal airline crashes that were caused by miscommunication between the captain and first officer, or unnecessary conversation. So it can actually be safer with just one pilot.
Also, there are plenty of accidents that occur during lessons, so it may not be the safest to have a newbie learning how to land for real (one of the only things the simulator cant get right are the landings) up front.@Ctrl Alt Del
I never flew a jet yet, so I don’t know what goes on in the cockpit. If its in the procedures they probably do.Cessna172ParticipantLOTR92
Correct!!
Are you a pilot?Cessna172Participant@Ctrl Alt Del
You forgot v2Cessna172ParticipantWhat is the most dangerous part of flying?
No one wants to try to give an answer?Cessna172ParticipantRebYidd
Me too.
Pilots are taught to act as if every second will be the last one with a spinning propeller. The entire flight I am constantly looking around to find a safe place to land if the engine quits. I play out in my mind different scenarios and how I would react to them (I have the emergency checklists memorized.) . I act as if every flight is a checkride, and the examiner will pull the throttle any second of the flight. If anything does happen c”v, I will be expecting it and will not panic. When pilots have this mindset, you hear the stories of planes landing on highways, beaches, even trees, safely.
Even if there are no desirable places to land, and a crash is inevitable, pilots are taught to “fly the airplane into the crash”. If for example, the plane is heading for trees, and is too low to land on them, fly the plane in between 2 trees, the wings will take the damage, and the fuselage, with everyone on board will be fine.Then there are the pilots who think it can never happen to them. That those stories only happen to other people. If something c”v happens they panic and freeze up. Then you hear the stories of planes crashing into the water, forests… and usually ends with fatalities.
NYOB
You may be right, but I wonder if anything would be different if there would be news stories on every single car crash, and would say the reasons behind the crash. Would people think twice before getting in cars?Cessna172ParticipantThere is a famous joke in the pilot world. It happens to be true also.
What is the most dangerous part of flying?
I’ll answer tomorrow, I want to see if anyone can get the answer.
Cessna172ParticipantThanks. You can be my next passenger.
Cessna172ParticipantI tried posting a link to a website that compares the statistics for aviation and car accidents, but it didn’t go through. On that website they say most of the aviation accidents could easily have been avoided. Many times pilots take off into bad weather after everyone warned them not to. Most accidents are cases like that. The pilots do things that will obviously not work.
Joseph
Every car is driven by someone who a DMV examiner saw drive and was issued a drivers license. I don’t know about other states, but in NY everyone knows the road test is a joke. It usually takes around 5 minutes and pass/fail is based on the examiners mood. Yet people get in cars with random people all the time.
The pilot “road” test, called a checkride, is a lot more official. It can take around 3 hours and is actually based on whether the applicant is a safe pilot or not. These same FAA examiners test the airline pilots too, yet everyone will fly with an airline, even if they don’t know who the pilots are. They trust that they were trained properly.
When it comes to general aviation, for some reason people don’t have that trust. All airline pilots start off flying small planes. Once they move on to bigger planes, they suddenly receive this unexplained trust.
And airline pilots get the airline license with the same small planes that I fly. Even when it comes to learning how to fly the plane they will fly (747, a380…) they only learn how to fly on a simulator. Their first time actually flying the airplane is on the job with passengers. It is the captains job to train him in.Which would you rather fly with.
A licensed pilot who flies small planes who only learned in a real plane, or a pilot who is flying a plane for the very first time, who only trained on a very realistic computer game?Cessna172Participantnishtdayngesheft
Maybe they never saw me fly, but an FAA examiner saw me fly. He saw how I take off, fly, land, recover from stalls, react to engine failure, recover from vertigo, and handle extremely busy New York area airspace, just to name a few things on the test. And he gave me my license, which means the FAA, which is part of the government, thinks I am a safe pilot. The examiner is also an NTSB accident investigator.December 27, 2018 12:29 pm at 12:29 pm in reply to: Why do people get nervous when they fly? #1652906Cessna172ParticipantPrivate planes may not have as good of a safety record as commercial airlines, but they are still way safer than cars. Yet people do not get nervous when they drive but do get nervous when they fly.
Cessna172ParticipantThe little I know
Perhaps we are aware that Hashem created us to walk upon the earth with our feet.Driving in a car is not walking upon the earth either.
Hashem also created physics. If a plane is flying, it doesn’t just fall out of the sky. Usually accidents are not because of the plane at all. In fact, around 75% of accidents every year are caused by pilot error. Even the accidents that are caused by something out of the pilots control, if the pilot remains calm, the flight will usually end safely.
How many car accidents are the drivers fault?
In a plane, if you are a safe pilot, the chances of crashing are really small.
In car, a person can be the safest driver on the road, but if there is one drunk driver next to him, the chances of getting involved in a fatal accident c”v are pretty high.Cessna172Participant..
Cessna172Participant.
Cessna172ParticipantI didn’t say I own a plane rather I am a licensed pilot
Cessna172Participantakuperma
Private pilots may not have as much experience as airline pilots, but that’s like comparing a regular person who drives to a bus driver. The bus driver obviously has way more experience as he is driving for a large part of the day almost every day. but everyone will go in a car even with a relatively new driver. And that’s without the fact that most new drivers only learn how to parallel park and make k- turns. just to pass a 5 minute road test ( at least in NY). Pilots go through intense training and actually simulate different types of emergencies (stalls, engine failure, engine fire etc.) and train to fly, not just to pass the test, which takes around 3 hours.As for any mechanical failure in flight, most if not all can be dealt with safely. The only reason the plane will crash is if the pilot panics. That’s why we train over and over for emergencies until it becomes muscle memory.
CTLAWYER
I am rated to fly an airplane single engine land.
I have flown a piper Cherokee, Cessna 152 and currently fly a Cessna 172.
Small planes are actually safer than larger planes in the event of an emergency, because they can land safely almost anywhere, including beaches, water, fields, highways and even trees. Landing areas for large planes are extremely limited to airports and water, and water landings don’t usually end well. The only time I can thing of where it did end well was the “miracle on the Hudson”.More than one engine does not always mean safer. If the engine fails on a single engine plane, you can easily maintain a glide to a safe landing. If one engine fails on a multi- engine plane, it requires extreme effort to maintain control. Many times it becomes impossible to maintain altitude.
Private pilot refers to a pilot without a commercial license, regardless of amount of experience.
Pilot who fly private jets, are commercial pilots who fly business jets. Many of them are just trying to gain enough hours to get an airline license and then move on to an airline. -
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