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@Kollelman
The problem with you always Trumpers is expressed in your last statement. You attribute all sorts of abilities to Trump, that arent true.
I still remember the guys who would say, every time Trump did something dumb, that its all a ploy and he is doing it because he understands the media and blah blah.I also wanted Trump to win, I think he is a better man and has, by far, done better things than what i expect from biden.
But I do take a certain solace in his loss. Apparently, acting like an insufferable jerk, arrogant and childish, is still distasteful to the American public. Irrespective of the other parties, less-visible flaws.And to the point you bring in your comment, I am all for waiting and seeing, yet I would note that every INDEPENDANT, HERETOFORE REASONABLE individual have all disregarded Trumps challenge to the results. These include as prominent as Bill Barr, and other TRUMP APPOINTED judges. You cannot go on yelling foul without a shred of CREDIBLE evidence. You would be no better than democrats asserting russian collusion.
At this point, the continuation of the “stop the steal” movement can only be described as “less than rational”. I will have none of it.
Thank You for calling attention to this.
I have actually recently put in a topic and was eagerly awaiting a response, and BH it was generally ok.
However there came those who began spouting accusations at others and some of it unfortunately got ugly.
Its very sad.
One point I want to make,
When you talk pompously and in a denigrating manner about someones opinion, even if you have not called him any names you are over on Lashon hara, and “ona’ah”.I must admit that I too have failed in that regard. And I would like to ask anyone I may have hurt for forgiveness.
@YM
Really?
I think Law and order has to do with standing for law and order. not deciding it.Well, after The virus killed hundreds of yidden, can you say that YWN was wrong?
All the obituaries printed in the frum publications including hamodia and yated, not enough for you?
Now, however, many have a false sense of security. It may be argued that the virus made its rounds through our community, which is why so many of us can be plasma doners, and so most of us seem to not have adverse affects to the lack of mitigation.
However, for other communities, where it did not make its rounds because of implemented mitigation practices, there is now a resurgence of cases.
Anyway, the issue with deblastio is the double standards and hypocrisy, not the content.@n0mesorah
yep, man viciously beating woman… therapist steps in “how does this make you feel”?
crowd control by private firms? oh gosh, why? will THEY be better trained/unarmed?@n0mesorah
heres this as an example, In the beginning of this virus the cdc stated that corona spreads through surface contact and not through inhaling, (remember all the “masks are so that you should not touch your face garbage?) now they list that as unlikely and they list as likely, airborne particles.
BTW that is the reason for the reversal on the recommendation to wear masks.Joseph you are 100% right.
@n0mesor
If they are so afraid of corona killing people than all these protesters are murderers right? So how do you protest murder with murder?
Goes to show that no one REALLY thinks coronavirus is that dangerous. Exactly Josephs point
@Doing
Joseph isnt saying he’s against the protests, he’s bringing a point about the people who were angry before (De Blastio for example)Probably most people who dont care didnt see the video.
@joseph
Did you see the video? there was no excuse for that. No matter the fancy linguistic acrobatics that anyone will attempt. Unless theres a HUGE missing piece here, that was murderin wuhan it was 1% because they locked everyone in their houses
well, being that the coronavirus spreads so much faster and is less detectable, the ability for it to spread is much more dangerous than the flu.
now, since with the numbers you’ve put up here it shows how only 1 percent of people infected with flu end up hospitalized, while when looking at Italy for example, where they didnt get on their game fast, the rate of severe infections is at about 8%, we can clearly see that rachmana litzlan this virus is potentially much more serious than the flu.ha. is she a good friend? then probably not narcissistic.
btw, you shouldnt take random tests,[was it administered, or she found it somewhere, like a book or online?]
I have tried, when i was younger to take online iq tests, i varied from over 147 to 93. um, i stuck with the 147.so when you are out in the Serengeti, and you realize your tour jeep and fellow explorers have left you behind, and you hear the [not too] distant growl of a lion, the cackle of a hyena, and hiss of a rattlesnake? Thats feeling vulnerable.
Its neither a bad or good thing, it just is.Just Kidding
when you start seeing the lights….
@kluger
R’ Tzvi Pesach Frank
The Shita that allows for abbortion is based on a tosefos. R’ Moshe held it to be Retzicha, and as the Posek Hador in america that became the accepted view, but there are many cholkim. There are even Rabbanim, who are mainstream for the Yeshiva Velt, who matir in certain cases, following R’ T P Franks opinion…
For the cholkim on R’ Moshe, it still is assur, just not retzicha which allows for heterim in certain circumstances much more so than R’ Moshe.
R’ Mordechai becher has a nice shiur on this….@luna
Yes I believe that a sodomite is worlds worse than a man who has relations with someone who’s not his wife. Whats your standard for measure?@gadolhadora
you missed the point of his question, namely that he was accused of interfering in an election that will never have happened. A real “Schroedingers cat” of a crime no?
Furthermore you missed the entire argument regarding his acquittal. Everyone agrees he asked for a favor “first” question was if its impeachable or is proof of quid… neither of which can be answered by reading the transcript.@ Kluger
He was impeached [allegedly] for attempting to use his position to solicit personal favors.@Kluger, Catch was actually calling out the dems on it if I understood correctly
@Jackk
i am no fan of trump, actually, i am. I dont support his personality though and what he’s done, but his oafish sincerity and his win by all means attitude are a benefit in a political climate of save-your-own skinism.
I did not vote for trump because of his mannerisms and history, but do plan on voting for him in the upcoming election because of his policies that are in line with what i believe in. Including economy, Israel, border security, and much of foreign policy.
The dems have not been mature enough to look at the bright side and ignore the idiocy. Because they dont see a bright side, they hate his policies.
So they decided to impeach him, from day 1. There are recordings we all heard.
You charge it as upholding their check on the executive branch, yet they have consistently proven that they have a PERSONAL vendetta against the president.
And lastly, you write how he abused power and obstructed. 1 playing hardball with money was the practice of many a president including hussein Obama with the israelis, it is only abuse of power if its no ones interest other than his, but for a legitimate investigation, which is what an investigation of bidens actions seems to be, it isnt abuse of power. 2 obstruction is only illegal if its illegal [simple no?] but without a court order that he must comply with the subpoenas, he doesnt have to, and therefore its not obstruction see?@jackk
“I have said before on YWN that Trump succeeded in making Biden unelectable by the Democrats. He reminds them of Hillary and her investigations too much . Though all of the investigations went nowhere, it still was a dark spot on her”I was not aware of any comprehensive investigations into either of them for what theive been accused of, maybe you can point me in the right direction. The recommendation of “extremely careless but not criminal” just doesnt seem finished no?
@Ubiq,
I’m sorry if i miss any points in responding to your q, as i dont have time to follow the whole thread, i would also say that the little i saw form kluger was something i would agree with, I think he puts forth a very strong argument, however to say it in my own words..
I did not vote for trump, I couldnt stand the guy, and those who are his fans still irk me till today. However, with all the lying and everything else, He delivers. And his heart is in the right place.
I cannot say the same for any democrat, maybe they do have the right ideas, but if its ok to hand one mans earnings to another what does that say about you?
BUT YOU ASK ABOUT REPUBLICANS, and to that the answer is, I am not pro republican, I’m pro people who attempt to do the right thing, so show me who they are and i’ll vote. So you’ll offer cruz, pence, and romney [yes i meant that], The problem with that is they arent willing to get dirty in a fight, for whatever the reason. I think that its similar to a situation we had as Klal Yisroel, Lehavdil elef havdalos, With Yiftach, who was not the greatest of The Yidden [though surely he was great] yet chachomim saw that he had the ability to be the one to lead Klal Yisroel at that time, so they chose him. [CH”vsh, to even compare Yiftach to Trump, that isnt my intention, my intention is to show however that sometimes in a society, you take an effective leader over a ‘most virtuous’ one.] I therefore dont let silly mannerisms bother me, After all, manners are not the be all and end all of what a person is. Far from it.I try not to think about it, cause its awkward to burst out laughing in public.
@baltimore
your a step away from the plate on this swing buddy. Most people here [seemingly] who support trump do so DESPITE his despicable mannerisms. [myself included]. And we think the Dems stick out their split hooves but in reality are really swine. In other words, the Dems whole pitch against trump has been his behavior and how childish he is. Not his policies, they cant fight those head on, so they have this equivalency thing between upstanding individual and correct policy.
And then suddenly its over, and in one rip of a paper its clear that their whole argument of moral/intellectual superiority is shredded. just like that. THATS what we’re all saying.
Its not that the republican party can do no wrong, its that nevertheless their policies are better. But the dems have tried to equate decency with being correct on policy, and suddenly the decency dissapears… its great stuff!
And thee farmer freezeth in his place, as the sheep doth OINK! : )@kluger
Yes, the difference is trump [arguably] broke the law going after biden while romney [arguably] upheld it.If he did take paper clips he’d be an omer muttar… besides, is there a chiyuv livdok?
but all that is “agav churfei ta’ah”. Its irrelevant. The point is romney consistently is upstanding, even here, v’horaya, he could of voted against Trump regarding both articles, so ‘migu’….
but all that isnt nogei’a either cause he’s a soneh and cant be dayan or aid.
Now that we got that outta the way, the fact remains, that it is not possible to know his motivation. Therefore 1) it may have been honest.
2) even if it wasnt, romneys response was, as you pointed out, no different than trumps to biden, coupled with the fact that trump went after romney before for no good reason. Therefore i still consider romney upstanding, if this is a fault, its a pretty good fault.
BTW, I dont agree with romney, i dont think trump should be impeached, yet neither do i need to prescribe banality to romney for voting the way he did@kluger @syag @avrom
Great job kluger, that choftz chaim is a great example of being realistic, lets face it people what joseph said is correct, people rationalize aveiros all the time, and they do it for watching stuff like the super bowl too, in fact many people who wouldnt watch a movie sometimes get sucked [ baavonoseinu harabim] into watching that too, and somehow it never gets turned off in time…
A person i know just came over to me telling me that he was horrified, that although he was aware that they were going to watch the superbowl, he took it for granted that they would shut it for the half time… long story short-they didnt, and all the people there who would never do such a thing, maybe they looked away, but ain apitruphus…….@Syag
So, I am someone familiar with this Halacha. Now that i’ve introduced myself here goes.
The Mitzva of “btzedek tishpot” is not a universal rule.
By all accounts it applies to someone who you know is tzaddik who you see doing something which seems, yes seems, wrong. And we are Mechuyav in that scenario to not judge critically but to either reconcile it with a good interpretation or leave it as “i dont know”.
More so, if it is undeniable that a misdeed was committed, still we must judge favorably by saying, surely after the sin he has remorse and is not a person who sins, v’ein tzaddik b’olam …. shelo yecheta. as we know “haroeh T”CH sheasa aveira b’layla, al tiharher acharav, shebivadai asa teshuva”.
Also not an argument, is that when one sees a rasha doing something that can be either good or bad… YOU SHALL JUDGE HIM LEKAF CHOV! this is agreed by all the poskim.The confusion revolves around a beinoni, someone [like most of us frum people] who ‘try’ to abstain from aveiros but unfortunately nevertheless fall many times. From the Pirush Meshnayos Lerambam, and from the rav, in avos, and others, it seems that there is no chiyuv to judge such a person favorably, although it is a middas chassidus to do so.
The Chafetz Chaim however, in his hilchos lashon hara, in the intro where he discusses that someone who speaks lashon hara transgresses the mitzva of betzedek tishpot, explains that this is a misreading of those aforementioned sefarim.
The Chafetz chaim puts forth a strong argument that one is MECHUYAV D’ORAYSA to judge a beinoni favorably. And he explains that the aforementioned sefarim were referring not to someone who YOU KNOW IS A BEINONI but rather to a stranger, who you do not know, and therefore dont know even if he is a beinoni, Maybe he’s a rasha?
Such a person there is no chiyuv to judge favorably. Nevertheless it is virtuous (middas chassidus) to judge him favorably.Therefore. Being that most of us on the coffee room do not know each other, there is no chiyuv “dan Lekaf Zechus” – L’kulo alama.
Furthermore, Joseph saying that there is a tendency to rationalize aveiros isnt his own statement, but the baalei mussar, from the poskim, from the gemara, from Tanach;
“ain adam roeh nigei atzmo” , “darko shel ish yashar b’einav” ect.and as an aside, there is a misunderstanding out there that “yiddden dont judge”.
My belief is that that idea has permeated into our psyche from the Goyim.
OF COURSE YIDDEN JUDGE! We constantly calculate and judge! its not possible not to judge, its an inherent trait that Hashem gave us for our safety!
It tells us to be wary of people that seem threatening, to not let our guard down around people with mannerisms that exude harmful intent, to not give our money to every scammer who calls us, and to not confuse a leopard for a house cat!
But we judge in a manner prescribed by the torah, allowing us to listen to our feelings but to lead with our mind. Those who say “dont judge me”…. their the ones we usually have to be most careful of.Actually he’d be considered Chachmei umos haolam, as per the rambam, for keeping the 7 laws. Chasideihem are only if their mekabel bifnei bes din.
As mentioned above, Nachrim arent mechuyav in ‘Yichud”. Hence He observes the 7 noahide laws and is from “Chachmei umos Haolam”, the same of which cannot be said for the president.
Romney is a respectable man.
And lets say its just out of spite, so he clobbered his enemy good, out of spite. Thats what you do to your enemies.
And he was not on to shakey ground either, lets remember guys “We need a favor first” is in the transcript. Its quite clear what was meant by that. There are reasons why that in itself may not actually be 1) impeachable or 2) sufficient, but thats a tough argument to make. not impossible, but surely not ‘non-debatable’.Does anyone really believe Trump did not pressure Zelensky to go after Biden in some way? “but we need a favor from you first”, its in the transcript. So it isnt a clear quid pro quo? there are surely “raglayim ledavar”. I dont think that in itself is under debate by anyone.
I do think that the debate is whether it is an impeachable offense, or is that considered sufficient evidence [not whether there is sufficient evidence, but whether the evidence already presented is sufficient]. Both debatable items. So Romney believes yes and yes. It seems valid to me.
[although i myself would say not, it isnt a black and white matter]@kluger
Your well put, though i would clarify that the chofetz chaim in B’er mayim chaim says as such only for a person who you do not know, while still positing that its a midas chasidus to judge even him favorably.
– regarding women being more emotional, that doesnt necessarily equate with less logical, though it very well may, however in that case it behooves you to stick to logical discourse and not saunter down the path of “virtue by gender” no?
However i Happen to very much agree with a lot of what you write and always enjoy seeing how you respond to others. You come across as knowledgeable. And i find myself agreeing with you (think target story :0).
however as in the case above you responded while on afterburner and thus clarity was lost…
And just in case you do ever start to wonder, I’m a guy. Though truthfully i am still unsure about the gemarah that sais ashrei mi shebonov zecharim…..@kluger
Also i take exception to your comment at syag that she is “thinking like a female” besides it being insulting as in to say that females cannot be as rational as men, it is also not an argument based on the merits of a disagreement.
Regarding the actual position that you seemingly assume, that females are less logical than males, or that males in general are smarter, i think it is a fascinating discussion. I really am interested in what the torah says about this, its a great topic for another thread. [actually it would theoretically be a great topic, save for the intense emotional and personal tone its bound to assume]. i’ll leave it to you to figure what gender i am… this is gonna be fun : )@Kluger
You write that there is no commandment to judge favorably? That what you meant?Football is cool, I used to watch the highlights. Competitive sports are exciting, and therefore fun to watch.
Thats why one would watch it.
I never have watched the superbowl though, as others mentioned, its much more a hype than a football game.
And as Joseph so succinctly put it, who gives one a heter to do aveiros once a year? It is by now well known that the half time show is full of ugliness. Ugliness that pulls, at the taavos of every yid. You wanna associate yourself with that? disgusting.
If Someone were to turn it off, that would ‘technically’ be a different cheshbon. But we all know how it goes, “i’ll turn it off when she starts singing” or only by her dancing… woops.
So my answer? There is nothing inherently assur with watching the superbowl as lomg as the pritzus can be kept out. But it is a davar megunah, being that it is so intertwined and defined by its entertainment element. Furthermore, it is clear that those who stay away are for good reason, and those who join, well, you just have to guess how sincere his “but we turned it off for the half time show” is.
1 more point, i saw someone ballyhooing about the virtues of dan lekaf zechus, you are completely missaplying that principle as do most in their chanufa of the wicked. thereby fullfilling the gemaras comment that “muttar l’hisgaros berishaim …. v’kol mi sheomer ainu, mipnei shelibo nokfo”.
I would live to take on this topic in a different thread.@Joseph
Agudah does, as per the opinion of all the Torah world gedolim since the Chazon Ish, support that which will make life better for the Jewish people.
That does not mean that it is better to have a Palestinian state. Rather that it is better to have a comprehensive, world accepted, plan.
One thing that the Gedolim have never supported, was Zionism. And so, we dont care if there is a Palestinian state or not, even if it is all based on lies or whatever you want to say. The point is to support that which will give Yidden the opportunity to thrive. At this junction, the most pragmatic approach is to support the deal that our president has presented.
those who espouse the idea that “israel is ours and we should not give up an inch” are, firstly, fools, and secondly, not adhering to the dictates of the Torah on this matter.@akuperma
I didnt know they consider frum jews uneducated lazy bums. i thought it was slumlord benefit stealer.Ha, you must,ve been that guy going 30 on pine where the limit is 45. (after sommerset walk toward New Hampshire).
Its confusing to newcomers, but once familiar you get the feel. Thats your answerprobably to late in game to try to restrict her. Only way it can work now is, as someone commented above, have a conversation with her. If you see that she is agreeable and understands the point, then putting structure in place will be effective for those times she herself is , for whatever reason, unable to follow on her own.
(now that i got the pedagogue side of me out i will confess that what i have just said may be correct, and may just as well be utter bull product. I am not a mechanech/educator and my oldest child is less than 3 years of age(=0@phil. he isnt saying that zionists are bad for claiming to be mentally ill. He is saying that their choice of whom to pursue is indicative of their intentions. Hence no reason to include that bit, as it doesnt pertain to the conversation.
@gadolhadorah
if your jewish than you should follow its code of law. and in the jewish code of law [more commonly known as shukhan arukh] it states that those whose occupation is torah study are exempt from, what we would term, “community service”. So in essence, you are the one who’s entitled and believe no one can have a loftier purpose than yourself, and therefore should obviously be subject to the same standards as the common folk. [i.e. yourself].
@ CTRebbe
1. you missed the point.
2. so what?
3. you really missed the point
4. putting words in peoples mouths isnt cool.
5. isnt that the same as #1? anyway, you missed the point.
6. yes. and no. depends when and who. also the rise in exemptions should match the actual statistics of MH in the state.
7. no. the one who made the mess should clean it.
news flash, it aint us who made it a vs. them issue.To quote R’ Avigdor MIller, Posted on MAtzav.com not long ago
“i will not give an opinion cause i do not know him, but he was one of very few who adamantly opposed the reform and conservative agenda”.
As someone pointed out earlier, vigilant self-defense is not “violence”.
And to those who oppose him, even if he was wrong, he was a frum jew, and you may not disparrage him. Furthemore, he was a remarkable person in his avodas Hashem. It is said about him, that when he heard of an imam who woke at 5 am every day to study his book, R’ Kahane said, if he does so, surely a yid can do better. And he Started rising to at 5am to learn.
He may not have had the right hashkafa, but he was a great man! Can you say you would do the same?!Answer to the post is simple.
WHERE DO WE GET THAT HAVING A GUN ISNT THE JEWISH WAY?!
I believe there is a huge misconception. This that we are taught that having a gun isnt the jewish way applies to the “vigilante” ‘take matters into my own hands’ type of way. people -Eisav- who walk around with an attitude of “if you cross me you”ll suffer my wrath”. That is “al Charbicha tichyeh”. That is EIsav.
But to obtain weapons for actual self-defense in light of a real threat, why thats an OPEN HALACHA IN SHULCHAN ARUCH THAT WE MAY CARRY WEOPONS, EVEN ON SHABBOS, TO DEFEND OURSELVES IN THE FACE OF AN ADVANCING ENEMY!
So, i think that clarifies the issue. Anyone agree? disagree?
BTW, akuperma and gadolhadora are correct that its lunacy to have untrained people with firearms, it may even become necessary to make a rule, no guns in shul unless you can prove a certain amount of training.@Milhouse
Spot on. Nothing more to add to your statement. Its the exact truth everyone.
I actually grew up with certain members of my family helping divorced women, specifically women. After a time i began to see that most of the PROLONGED, UGLY, AND DRAWN OUT cases where the fault of the person my family member was trying to help. I was even commissioned to partake in certain ventures to “convince” the ‘rouge husband’ to give a get. And when finally meeting the relevant parties, it all became clear, that it is all completely unclear.
Hope that helps.BTW.
Gezel Sheina is a mussar vort, its a chisaron in V’ahavta l’reiacha K’mocha. It is not actual gezel. There is no mention of “gezel sheina” in the entire gemara or shulchan aruch.
The understanding is that gezel is taking away something that belongs to someone else. Obviously sleep isnt something that is ‘being taken’. It is however a mussar vort. dont do something harmful to someone, especially when it cant be amended.