Forum Replies Created
-
Posts
-
Isn’t this a piyut for Shavuot? Is there any shul that uses it?
” I was talking about chumros when in doubt what thw halacha is, as I explained earlier in this post to charliehall. “
That was what I thought you were talking about. If Chazal decreed a chumrah, we follow it — unless the Gaonim or Rishonim say otherwise, which has happened very rarely.
‘I should add, aside from these points, Rashi surely had a more authoritive version of Seder HaOlam — closer to its authorship than us — despite any so-called “modern research” (a/k/a rubbish).’
This is not “modern research” or “rubbish”. There are sources mentioned here that agree with the other texts of Seder Olam Rabbah. See for example are Tosafot to BT Yevamot 61b. There are many places where we know Rashi had a different text of the gemara than we do today; somehow texts got changed in the transit between Eretz Yisrael or Bavel and France. We should not force a single midrashic interpretation as the *only* one when there are others that have support from our mesorah.
SJS,
Check out BT Shabat 82a, at the top of the page. The commentators struggle with this.
IIRC think the Chofetz Chaim was given semichah when he was elderly in order that he might more easily get a visa.
In our times, semichah has become a kind of degree that attests to your knowledge of certain areas of halachah and your ability to teach and answer questions about those areas.
Well said, iluvtorah. I’ve been personally embarrassed at the way frum people have treated service people at frum events. All my rabbis have stressed the need to be a mentch at all times, ESPECIALLY in our relations with non-Jews with whom we come into contact. For a non-Jewish waiter to go home after an event and say, “I really love working Jewish events, they really are great people; their Torah must really mean something to them.” is a kiddush HaShem. But for the same person to go home and say, “These Jews are all rude jerks and I hate working for them; from where do they get that bad behavior?” is a chilul HaShem.
There is absolutely no merit to being machmir out of doubt. We are supposed to learn the halachah in consultation with a rav. Being machmir out of doubt is a confession of ignorance or even laziness, neither of which are positive traits! With a rav we can determine when to accept the stringent opinions and when to follow the lenient opinions depending on our own character traits and susceptibility to the yetzer hara in that particular area. And we must never insist that others follow our own chumrot; that is the height of arrogance.
Regarding following a rav who paskens a minority opinion, if you have a rav you should always follow him in his leniencies and his stringencies. And if you don’t have a rav you have not fulfilled the positive commandment in Avot. None of us are strong enough to pasken for ourselves in difficult issues. Any good rav will tell you who are the poskim HE relies upon and they will be people whose names you will recognize. In comparison, the talmud has terrible things to say about people who shop around for opinions they like — it is a way to enable the yetzer hara, big time.
Ramban’s account of the Disputation of Barcelona has been translated into English and is available in paperback.
It is a serious hashkafic and halachic shilah as to how to treat halachic information that comes through methods other than our direct mesorah. Rav Herzog z’tz’l made a pretty convincing case for having found the source of the techelet. But despite the fact that I think he is correct, I do not wear techelet. I talked with my Rav and it is not at all clear that we can change our practice based on new scientific information. A similar question comes up regarding the permissibility of killing body lice on Shabat. We know that they do not reproduce via spontaneous generation but that may not be enough to override the permssion that was granted by the sages of the past. There are good arguments on both sides of this issue. On the one hand, we have permanently lost the mesorah for techelet and unless we accept the idea that we can use scientific information such as that discovered by Rav Herzog z’tz’l we may never be able to fulfill this important mitzvah. On the other hand, scientific research by its nature is limited to the available data and while we are never again going to say that body lice *do* reproduce by spontaneous generation, the level of evidence for techelet is not quite permanently conclusive and the level of evidence in many other areas is not as strong. As a scientist I am personally hesitant to suggest changing our practice based on scientific evidence, and for that reason, I do not wear techelet despite my tremendous respect for Rav Herzog z’tz’l. At some point I might come to a different conclusion and I will discuss with my rav before making a change myself.
Thank you for this interesting thread.
Derech HaMelech, What in the world do you mean by, ” Halachic research is not for the hamonei am, it is for halachic authorities.?” Should I stop going to shiurim? We learn Torah so we can better understand how to follow HaShem’s commandments and that means learning as much halachah and hashkafah as we possibly can!
Holly Moe wrote, “I won’t go into it, but it was proven that that he was fooled by chemists.” It was none other than Rav Herzog z’tz’l who was responsible for that proof!
oy vey wrote, “R’ Schachter shlita wears techeiles also”. This is true. But not all his talmidim do.
hello99 wrote, “Furthermore equating kala ilan with indigo is pure speculation. ” Rav Herzog z’tz’l makes a rather convincing case otherwise.
Gavra,
Women in Iran don’t wear burkas; at most they wear a chador and many wear the headscarf that is common throughout the Muslim world. (My wife also wears headscarves and has had great conversations with Muslim women regarding modesty and haircovering.) Women in Afghanistan often wear burkas but there are no Jewish women in Afghanistan other than NATO soldiers and support personnel.
But in any case we do not necessarily follow the minhag hamakom! Chas v’shalom we adopt the modesty standards of gentiles in New York City!!!
“even then, she is not seen “
My wife has delivered dozens of babies and reports that there are few things quite so immodest as giving birth.
“What about genetic diseases? Psychological disorders that are not revealed during dating? Violence in the family?”
Almost all of us have something like that in our background, either ourselves or in our family history. And most of us who claim that there isn’t are simply in denial. We are all imperfect people and the Torah lifestyle allows us to serve HaShem in spite of our imperfections.
My earlier comment was edited in a way that significantly changed the meaning. I said that “Almost every single Orthodox community in the world today now teaches at least some T”S”B”P to women” and the editor added “Modern” before “Orthodox”. However, I realize that the implication of what I wrote might have been misleading so I will now explain what I meant:
There are almost no communities that don’t teach at least Rashi on Chumash to women, and Rashi on Chumash is T”S”B”P. Technically, even Tzena Urena is T”S”B”P because it includes a lot of midrash. Most Modern Orthodox communities accept women learning talmud but few Charedi communities do; I am unaware of any Modern Orthodox community that doesn’t teach any T”S”B”P to women.
Thank you for the opportunity to clarify.
Several examples of halachah that has actually changed during the past 1500 years:
In talmudic times, blind men could not receive aliyot or count for a minyan. Today, they do both.
In talmudic times, a bridegroom was exempt from reciting the shema on his wedding night. That is not the case today.
Women used to be able to read the megillah for a man. The Rema accepted an opinion and almost all Ashkenazic poskim follow him. (Rabbi Ovadiah Yosef does not accept the Rema on this.)
Chazal prohibited the use of flammable material to wipe excrement off ones body. Today, we use toilet paper.
There have also been real changes in how we treat and relate to non-Jews; it is possible to say that the non-Jews of today are not like the non-Jews of talmidic times so this may not be a halachic change but a change in classification.
—
However, there aren’t very many examples of actual halachic changes. What does change is custom (minhag), and it can often change quite dramatically. For example, our siddur has many post-Chazal additions including the texts for selichot, tachanun, and parts of pesukei d’zimra, piyutim, Kabalat Shabat, kinot for Tisha B’Av, and the entire Simchat Torah sidur. Furthermore, many Ashkenazic Jews dropped their former Nusach and adopted Nusach Sfard or Nusach Ari.
Another example is the term “rabbi” which had a very different meaning in talmudic times than it does today. Chazal would have never imagined internet semichah programs!
Yet another example is the unprecedented level of formal Jewish education that is now available to Jewish women, even including formal talmud study. Almost every single Modern Orthodox community in the world today now teaches at least some T”S”B”P to women. Rambam would never have imagined that.
The lesson I see from Jewish history is that change that does not contradict halachah can often be accepted, but that change that requires changing halachah is almost never accepted.
edited
A similar problem plagues the famous four color map theorem, proven by Appel and Haken in 1976 using a computer. We await a simple proof that can be checked by hand.
“It is rude and a chillul Hashem to greet the opposite gender, even if not an issur. “
I took my wife to the most frum shul in my neighborhood one Friday night. She was the only woman on her side of the seven foot opaque mechitzah. And none of the men would even say “Good Shabbos” to her. She has never been back. I don’t blame her. We now attend shuls that are less frum but more heimish.
“how many very very high up private goyish schools have separate classes? a lot, exactly because of this”
As I pointed out, the number of all male secular colleges in America is now down to three.
My grandfather z’l was very opposed to coeducation. He was an English teacher and real traditionalist in education. But now colleges and universities are run too much like businesses. You have to give the customer what they want. And that means lots of As and lots of “social life” possibilities. I can’t follow the opinion that coeducation is asur because Rav Soloveitchik was my rav’s rav (and I teach in one the graduate/professional divisions of YU, all of which are required to be co-ed), but it is a shame that there are now so few single gender options for those who want them.
Now, back to the original question:
I am not qualified to answer the question. However I will say that the talmid of The Rov whose writings I find most inspiring is Rabbi Dr. Aharon Lichtenstein. His ability to weave history and literature together to make Torah points is without parallel.
Kaplan was also the first rabbi of the Manhattan Jewish Center (before Rabbi Leo Jung z’tz’l who was before Rabbi Norman Lamm), and was one of the founders of the National Council of Young Israel.
I am aware of only one person who earned both semichah from The Rav and also earned a doctorate under The Rav’s supervision. (The Rav was a philosophy professor before he was a Rosh Yeshiva!) That person is Rabbi Norman Lamm.
“i have never heard that the Rov zt”l allowed/did not object to his talmidim taking pulpits without a mechitza”
I have heard that personally from some talmidim. One took such a position had to leave that pulpit because the congregation would not install a mechitzah (and to this day does not have one).
The Rav z’tz’l was not the only Rosh Yeshiva to encourage talmidim to do this. Rabbi Emanuel Feldman took a non-mechitzah shul in Atlanta with the full approval of Ner Israel’s Rav Ruderman z’tz’l. Rabbi Feldman did suceed in converting the congregation to fully halachic services.
“I am not sure if this was his kulah, but his brother R’ Aharon (IIRC) held that a mechitzah has to be only 39?? inches (for it to be technically at the lowest level, kosher)”
That was also The Rav’s kulah, as well as the kulah of Rabbi Yosef Eliyahu Henkin: Ten tefachim is the required height.
“Yet the Rav zt”l gave the first Talmud shiur at Stern College. Who’s derech then is R. Schachter following in his stance?”
Rav Schachter is a gedol in his own right and can disagree with his teacher. But I’m not sure he really objects to women learning talmud as long as there is proper motivation. He does wear techelit, though, which The Rav z’tz’l did not.
‘if YU has to “take credit” for Mordecai Kaplan’
Mordecai Kaplan did not attend YU; he did study briefly at a predecessor institution, the Etz Chaim Day School. He graduated from JTS when it was still Orthodox and also had a personal semichah from Rabbi Yitzchak Yaakov Reines.
“The proper thing is that a Rosh Yeshiva is just that. The ”Rosh” of the Yeshiva, and is the final arbiter. “
YU/RIETS currently has about three dozen Roshei Yeshivot. There is no Jewish institution in the world that has such a abundance of gedolei Torah.
I’ve seen the Isaiah 53 ads in Manhattan as well.
We should all learn Nach better so we can better counter missionaries. The more time we can spend with them, the less time they will have to influence less learned Jews who might be vulnerable to their propaganda.
Vassar was all female until 1969; it has been co-ed since then.
There are only three non-religious all-male colleges in the US: Wabash College, in Indiana, Morehouse College, in Georgia, and Hampden-Sydney College, in Virginia. All have excellent academic reputations, but only for Morehouse is there a frum community within a reasonable commute from the institution. There remain many non-religious all-female colleges.
“The need for a mechitza is so the men don’t see the women by davening, right? Or is the issur that women aren’t allowed to be seen davening? So if there is a mechitza, but one that the men could see right through and/or over then is one allowed to daven there? Is a women? Is a man? “
Actually it is a machloket poskim. Rav Henkin z’tz’l, Rav Soloveitchik z’tz’l, and Rav Moshe Feinstein z’tz’l did not hold the above opinion; rather they held that the need for a mechitzah was to create a separate halachic domain for women (which would allow a mechitzah to be much lower). You should consult your local Orthodox rabbi as to whether you can daven in a beit knesset in which the mechitzah is according to the opinion he does not follow.
You might be interested to know that the oldest synagogue in America is an Orthodox congregation in which the mechitzah in their small beit knesset is barely waist high. Their main beit knesset does not have a mechitzah at all; women sit in the balcony where they can see the men very easily — and men can see women as well. Given the number of beautiful old classic halachic synagogues in Europe with that kind of architecture (which inspired similar synagogues all over America), it is difficult to argue that it is an absolute halachic prohibition for men to be able to see women during the service.
Max Well,
What changed in the 1960s was the more widespread availability of contraception (and then, starting in 1970, legalized abortion) and the lack of stigma attached to out of wedlock births.
I’ve read firsthand accounts of youth in the eighteenth century that aren’t much different from what we see today! Shlomo HaMelech was correct when he wrote that there is nothing new under the sun. Chazal had a point when they made 18 the year for marriage.
In the previous comment I meant 2007, not 2006. I regret the error.
Max Well,
You didn’t read your reference very closely. Those births were to teens who were married at the time the child was born, not necessarily at the time the child was conceived! “Shotgun weddings” were very common back then. And the rate of teen births in 2006 was 42.5 births per 1,000, less than half the rate of 1957.
Many times I went out on a single date but not a second date; it was clear that we were not compatible.
I proposed marriage to my wife on our second date and she accepted; we remain happily married.
Sister Bear,
There are a lot of differing opinions regarding what kind of mechitzah is required for tefillah. Follow the minhag of your local shul.
Gavram
You say, “It would just not work today, not with our children.” What is wrong with the education that has been provided to our children that what worked fine a generation ago does not work today? Orthodoxy is today MORE isolationist and MORE separated from the general secular culture than it has ever been in America. (And don’t tell me that the general secular culture is worse today than a generation ago. The teen birth rate in America peaked in 1957. There was plenty of licentiousness back then; people just weren’t as open about it.)
Moq wrote,
“And Gedolei Yisroel clearly and unambigously are 100% opposed to mixed seating at a wedding. “
Rav Aharon Kotler z’tz’l, Rav Moshe Feinstein z’tz’l, Rav Yaakov Kamenitzky z’tz’l, and Rav Yosef Soloveitchik z’tz’l all attended mixed seating weddings.
“Far worse can and does happen. Open your eyes! Look around.”
Indeed. I look around and see more unmarried frum people than at any time in history.
msseeker,
What is wrong with what SJS wrote? Her facts are correct!
May more singles mix with each other, get married, and raise frum kids!
More seriously, separate seating is a must for tefillah b’tzibbur, but otherwise there is absolutely postively no issur for a man to sit next to his wife.
Not talking in shul is the one mitzvah that Reform Jews do a better job of keeping than we who claim to be committed to halachah. We should hang our heads in shame.
I’m not qualified to say whether using software without paying is halachically asur but it certainly displays bad midot and it would create a chilul HaShem if frum Jews became known as software pirates. This is considered by the software industry to be theft, pure and simple. If everyone used software without paying, the entire industry would collapse, there would be no new software created, and thousands of people would be out of jobs. I personally know frum Jews whose parnassah would be ruined! If you can’t afford an expensive program there is a good chance there is an inexpensive or even free alternative. For example, there is a free office productivity suite that has most of the capability of Microsoft Office and reads most MS Office file formats that can be downloaded from openoffice.org.
Rabbi Avi Weiss is actually a model for inclusion of those with disabilities. Whenever he sees someone in a wheelchair or even just with a walker in the men’s section of the synagogue, he always walks over to greet the person and to make sure the person feels included. When people are dancing on Simchat Torah or even a normal Friday night service, he walks over to the people in wheelchairs or with walkers, takes their hand and sways with them. He offers each one a sefer torah at least once on ST. He also includes those with intellectual disabilities as well. The building has a ramp to the main beit knesset and a Shabbat elevator for those who can’t get to the upper floors any other way. And for the people who can’t make it to shul, we go to local retirement homes on ST and have a brief torah reading where all the frail elderly men can get an aliyah. I can’t tell you how much these folks appreciate it — it is really moving.
One can disagree with many of Rabbi Weiss’s halachic positions and follow a different torah hashkafah, but in this particular issue I think all of us can agree that he is following the Torah-true path.
I also attend another shul, a small congregation whose old building is not handicapped accessible. I hope that we can grow the congregation so that we can have the money to change that.
I’ve personally seen photographs of yeshiva students in Eastern Europe that were taken during the 1930s. None of the students in the photos have beards. A now elderly rabbi who was in one of the photos (and now has a beard) vouched for the truth of the photos and told me that the boys used depilatories.
And the above ‘proves’ since they did it, it ‘must’ be muttar?
While it is true that all of us who comment here are midgets compared to Rav Moshe z’tz’l, there were those who were not who did indeed argue with him during his life. Rav Henkin z’tz’l disagreed with him regarding the Manhattan eruv, chalav stam milk, the validity of the sale of chametz by non-observant Jewish merchants who continued to do business in chametz on Pesach, and allowing a woman married in a non-halachic service to get married without a get. Rav Soloveitchik z’tz’l disagreed with him regarding brushing teeth on Shabat, the permissibility of a wedding on the night of 17 Tammuz, and the desirability of university education. Rav Waldenberg z’tz’l disagreed with him on the permissibility of many abortions, and the permissibility of cosmetic surgery. None of these are midgets; indeed they were gedolim of similar stature to Rav Moshe z’tz’l.
Max Well,
You are wrong about candlelighting; everyone (male or female) is obligated in candlelighting starting at bar or bat mitzvah. The custon is that for a young man or women, his/her mother fulfils his/her obligation, but if a yeshiva boy does not have someone else to light for him, he has failed to fulfill a positive commandment. Ditto for unmarried women.
And it is no disrespect to Rav Moshe z’tz’l to follow one of the great poskim I mentioned earlier who permitted a bat mitzvah service. My own rav follows Rav Soloveitchik z’tz’l on all issues on which he has a mesorah from The Rav.
philosopher,
You are absolutely wrong about girls not doing extra mitzvot once they turn 12. On that day girls become chayev in everything from eating matzah and retelling the story of the Exodus on Pesach (not to mention maror, Hallel, and four cups of wine), to making kiddush on Shabat and Yom Tov, to birkat hamazon, to hearing the Megillah, to lighting Shabat, Yom Tov, and Chanukah candles, to taking Challah, to prayer. The number of Torah mitzvot for which men are chayev and women are patur is quite small.
I also vote for Mint Chololate Chip! But Vanilla is a close second.
Chazal said, “There is no simchah without ice cream.”
Oh, correct that. Chazal did not say that. Ice cream had not been invented yet. (There are, however, records of it being eaten in Gaonic times.) Had Chazal known about ice cream they would have mandated that it be served every Shabat and Yom Tov.
How about this for a Bat Mitzvah celebration:
Hold it the first Friday night after the girl turns Bat Mitzvah. Have women in the community (and only women) stand around and say “amein” as the Bat Mitzvah girl lights candles in her home as a chiyuv for the first time, and follow it with a festive women-only meal where the Bat Mitzvah girl makes kiddush and motzi, offers divrei Torah on the parsha, and leads the zimun?
While Rav Moshe did oppose Bat Mitzvah ceremonies, among those who supported some kind of Bat Mitzvah ceremony were Rabbi Yakov Ettlinger, the Ben Ish Chai, Rabbi Yechiel Yaakov Weinberg, and Rabbi Ovadiah Yosef. Rav Weinberg’s rulings have become normative in the Modern Orthodox world because they were supported by Rov Soloveitchik, and Rav Yosef’s rulings are of course normative in the Sefardic world. Therefore one should not criticize those who hold a Bat Mitzvah for their daughter when they live in a community that accepts them.
Jews attended university during the time of the rishonim. I’ve seen no rabbinic objection prior to the 19th century. The number of great rabbis with university education is quite long, including Rambam, Sforno, Rav Hirsch, Rav Hildesheimer, Rav Herzog, and Rav Soloveitchik. Each had extensive Torah education prior to embarking on university studies; each would be a great model to follow.
Moderator,
When I insist on others’ accepting facts regarding the temperature of the earth, I mostly limit that to the approximately 130 years for which we have decent worldwide temperature measurements. Those data are quite clear.
Regarding carbon dioxide, there is another molecule linked to human activity that may also contribute substantially to the warming: methane, which is produced by domestic livestock such as cattle. Did you see the recent New York Times article on the subject? Unfortunately, the alternative meat proposed, kangaroo, is not kosher.
Suppose that the person’s alleged financial fraud was specifically that he took bribes in return for certifying non-kosher food as kosher. Would we still be obligated to accept his kashrut certification (even after secular conviction) until a beit din can rule?
philosopher,
Solar energy is currently not economically competitive with oil, gas, coal, or nuclear without massive government subsidies. (Funny, though, it is rare to hear complaints about the huge subsidies given to the oil, gas or nuclear industries.) And solar energy isn’t practical at all in much of the world because of cloud cover.
Spencer also agrees that the earth has gotten warmer.
The global warming skeptics keep bringing out scientists who agree that the earth has gotten warmer! Those scientists just disagree with the cause, not the fact.
Philosopher,
Prof. Lindzen has criticized the computer models for some of the reasons you mention. But he agrees that the the data clearly show that the earth has warmed. That evidence is not from computer models but from empirical observation of temperatures all over the world over the past 130 years, and the observed receding of glaciers and sea ice. Satellite imagery adds to the picture for about the past 40 years and pretty much tells the same story.
Reducing use of oil would be a good thing. But the US does not get most of its oil from hostile powers. The top four countries sending oil to the US are (in order) Canada, Mexico, Saudi Arabia, and Nigeria. Three of the four are friendly (although it is a wonder that Mexico remains friendly given the racist bigotry against Mexican immigrants to the US). Canada and Mexico aren’t OPEC members. The US still produces 30% of the oil it uses, although that fraction will likely decline as there really aren’t any major new oil fields likely to be discovered in the future and the oil from many of the known fields is very expensive to recover (or even dangerous, as the recent blowout in the Gulf of Mexico showed).