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“We need to decide if we would rather divide a fixed amount of services based on money, or government decision. I vote for money.”
So someone without money who needs medical care should die?
“I’m sure in some circumstances(If Health insurance vital to your life), you can get getter to withhold(do not show) some of your income. “
I don’t believe you. Please cite a living posek who agrees.
“One more factor is the huge malpractice premiums that US doctors pay to protect themselves against frivolous lawsuits.”
Actually that is not the case. With the exception of a few specialties like neurosurgery or obstetrics, actual malpractice premiums are a small part of the total cost of health care in the US. A bigger problem are all the unnecessary tests and treatments that providers use in order to protect themselves from lawsuits.
“If we only had catastrophic insurance – and everybody would be paying for routine tests and appts ourselves – the prices would go down.”
That is true in theory, but it doesn’t work for people who aren’t wealthy enough to pay for the routine tests and appts.
Furthermore, the cost of health insurance in NY is driven up by the many mandated coverages — and one of the most expensive is the assisted reproductive technology that all insurers, including Medicaid, are required to cover. The frum community lobbied long and hard to get this coverage so that couples would be able to afford the mitzvah of pru urvu. I personally know frum kids who WOULD NOT EXIST without this expensive mandate.
” Until we have Tort Reform – prices will not go down”
In fact, prices have not come down in the states that have instituted Tort Reform. Texas is probably the worst example. When George W. Bush was governor it was his signature achievement. It did not help and Texas now has the worst healthcare system in America, with many Americans going to Mexico for health care!
I should add that it may be a Torah right for someone to sue and collect for actual damages, including health care and loss of income. The punitive damages are the problem. We really need a no fault system.
“Oh and I just got myself a quote with Empire for $312. I still think thats nuts, since b”h i go to the doctor maybe once a year, i just feel like it wuold be such a waste of money to pour that down the drain each month! “
That offer might be worth grabbing. Empire is a good insurance company with a large network of providers. Should you get seriously ill or have an accident, you will be very glad you did. Remember that insurance is to guard against the unexpected, not to provide the expected.
Ben Torah,
There are tens of millions of people in America who are on permanent waiting lists for care should they ever get sick because they can’t get health insurance at any price — possibly more than the entire population of Canada. Fortunately Obamacare will fix this problem.
squeak,
If she is an employee and not a contractor it is both her problem and the employer’s problem even if she does report all of her income because she can’t file a Schedule C. And there is no way for the employer not to get into trouble. The IRS considers this to be one of the biggest tax scams going.
homell,
I follow the torah as elucidated by Chazal and Rishonim, not by Rush Limbaugh. (And I bet he pays all his taxes!)
akuperma,
You don’t understand the nature of insurance. It isn’t an investment, or a gamble, it is about avoiding risk. And the worst risk one can make is with ones health.
crdle,
If you are in fact self-employed why did you say you are “off the books”? That is the term that is universally used to mean that one is hiding their income illegally.
aposhitermaidel,
The US system is clearly worse than Canada as measured by objective health outcomes, and it costs far more. And the primary reason for recent premium increases is not Obamacare (which doesn’t take effect until 2014) but the fact that insurers use earnings from investing their premiums to defray the cost of claims. And because of the economic collapse that Obama had nothing to do with, they have lost tons of money on their investments, particularly in real estate.
chesedname,
My wife is a physician and she has also talked with Canadian doctors. Things are so much better there that we seriously considered trying to emigrate. Doctors never have an HMO telling them what to do. Doctors never have to worry about getting paid. Doctors send ONE bill to the provincial government, rather than dozens of bills to as many health insurers, and the government pays the bill the first time rather than arguing. And had she gone to medical school in Canada she would have a lot less debt.
akuperma,
You really don’t want to place that bet. Medical providers are under no obligation to ever give you free medical care and even hospitals are only obligated to provide limited emergency care. And many of the lifesaving drugs to treat common medical conditions cost hundreds of dollars every month, with only rare discounts to those who don’t have insurance.
Finally, forcing the rest of us to cover your medical expenses because you have not provided for payment for your own care is the height of irresponsbility. I’m not sure why it would not be considered theft.
One more thing: If you fail to report your income when applying for government benefits such as Medicaid, you have committed a federal crime. If they catch you, you will likely be spending a number of years learning in the Otisville Prison Kollel.
crdle,
Start by working on the books. Cheating on taxes is asur (see Bava Kamma 113) and it is a chilul HaShem when an otherwise frum Jew gets caught.
Regarding health insurance, a lot dependes on where you live. But most private insurance with decent coverage, in most places in the US, will indeed run you $400+/month or even more. Any insurance agent should be able to give you the bad news. And if you have pre-existing conditions, you may not be able to get insurance at all outside of the new high risk pools that are among the first major features of Obamacare to take effect. The Republicans are going to try to end them but at least they could help for awhile.
One possibility is to make aliyah to Israel and take advantage of its excellent health insurance plans. Minimal fees for religious schools, too.
Good luck! I know many self-employed or underemployed people who constantly struggle with health insurance.
“trial by one judge and no jury is vaday wrong”
The gemara in Sanhedrin explicitly says that it is permitted for Noachide courts.
YWN?
I think that the moderators should instruct him to get a different nickname in order to avoid confusion.
AishesChayil,
In my modern Orthodox community we can’t tell the FFBs from the BTs from the gerim. I think that is as it should be. I can’t imagine anyone here refusing to date someone because he/she is a BT or a ger. We don’t have a lot of singles, though.
AinOhdMilvado,
Reform “conversions” are not “poof” — they typically require six months to a year of study. They absolutely do not require acceptance of the mitzvot, though, and may not even require immersion in a mikveh (although that is commonly done whenever they can get access to a mikveh).
I personally know of Orthodox batei dinim that convert people much faster (and I’m not talking about modern Orthodox batei dinim associated with the IDF, the RCA, or the IRF).
Helpful,
I am not aware of any study that applies our standards for defining a halachic Jew to the members of Reform congregations. Anything we say here is anecdote or speculation. I was mainly judging by the dues-paying membership and especially by the fact that the number of Reform synagogues in America has increased substantially over the past 30 years.
The 2001 National Jewish Population survey showed a decline of 13% in the number of persons identifying as Reform Jews since a similar survey thirty years earlier, and the same 13% decline in self-identified Orthodox Jews. Conservative declined 50% during the same period. I think that much of the Orthodox decline may be explained by the total destruction of the once huge Jewish community in most of the Bronx, much of which was at least nominally Orthodox.
Not so simple, especially this time of year, when you can’t pray Shacharit that early.
“But when it applies to you (3 teens)…..”
The three bocherim are very lucky that they were not caught smuggling drugs into Singapore. It has a mandatory death penalty for drug smuggling. Anyone entering Singapore is handed a card that warns of their death penalty for drug traffickers.
Singapore does have one of the lowest crime rates in the world. But had the bocherim been caught smuggling drugs into Singapore, they would already been executed by now. Interestingly, Singapore’s first Prime Minister under self-government was a Jew, David Marshall. He was also a legendary criminal defense attorney whose success caused successor Lee Kuan Yew to abolish jury trials! Marshall’s political party is still in existence, and supports elimination of mandatory sentences, but it has no influence as Singapore has been for years effectively a one party state.
“Japan, which has a real nationwide death penalty, has a FAR FAR lower violent crime rate than the U.S. “
Japan has about a hundred people on death row. The US, with about 2 1/2 times the population, has over three thousand.
Canada and European countries without the death penalty have much lower violent crime rates than does the US.
Naomi Shemer! Yerushalayim shel Zahav!!!!
The link does not work.
so right,
While the Conservative movement has been hemorraging members, the Reform movement has grown in the US over the past generation. When I used to attend a Reform synagogue, a lot of the people who showed up every Friday night were people who had grown up Orthodox; very few were non-halachic converts. The Reform movement now has hundreds more synagogues today than it did 30 years ago and many hundreds of thousands more dues paying members than do all Orthodox shuls combined. (And dues for Reform synagogues are substantially higher than for Orthodox synagogues.) Those of us in the New York area don’t see this, but in most counties in the US, if there is one synagogue, it is a Reform synagogue.
Our triumphalism is premature.
In the US, the states without the death penalty or that don’t use the death penalty tend to have lower violent crime rates than those that do execute people. For example, New York has a far lower violent crime rate than Texas or Florida.
Sanhedrin 57b says that Noachide Courts consist of one judge and execute on the basis of one witness, without a warning, by strangulation.
(Can Noachide courts use lay juries? Execute by other methods? There does not exist the long history of rabbinic opinion concerning Noachide laws that we have on other areas of practical halachah.)
The death penalty as applied in the US does not meet even the minimal standards required of Noachide courts. In particular, someone can be executed without testimony from an eyewitness to the crime. I’ve had two different rabbis tell me that a Jew should never serve on a jury in a capital case in the US.
“It is prohibited for any rabbi to serve on a council of rabbis where conservative rabbis are included.
This is accepted throughout Orthodoxy, and agreed to by Rav JB Soloveichik, so it is accepted by YU as well.”
This not true. The Rav *permitted* participatation in such councils as long as halachic matters were not discussed.
My own rav, received semicha from Rav Soloveitchik, once took me to a New York Board of Rabbis event where he was being honored. On the way home, he ragged on all the things they were doing that he disagreed with!
Rabbi Henry Pereira Mendes helped found the New York Board of Rabbis in the 1880s — before The Rov or any of the rabbis who opposed him on this issue were born. (He helped found the Orthodox Union in the 1890s.) At least two orthodox rabbis currently serve as officers of the New York Board of Rabbis; at least a half dozen have served as Presidents.
“The fact is, the Conservative movement is simply an offshoot of the Reform movement, begining with Zecharias Frankel and Sabato Morais, both Conservative founders originally from the Reform.”
Not true regarding Morais. He was solidly orthodox and the congregation he led for almost half a century remains orthodox — it is 270 years old this year.
“Let’s take the Shmoneh Esray, which was composed by the divine inspiration of the Anshay Knesses HaGedolah, and let’s change it.”
Bad example. Every Jew who davens “Nusach Sfard” or “Nusach Ari” is praying a “changed” Shemoneh Esrei.
“they would never consider having the parking lot open on Shabbat”
There is a Young Israel shul in my neighborhood that has an open parking lot on Shabat. Doctors on call and hatzalah volunteers use it.
mw13,
My wife and I spent an hour and a half this afternoon reading commentary after commentary on the destruction of Sedom. We did not see any Jewish commentaries that attributed its destruction to mishkav zachor. They attribute it variously to greed, inhospitability to strangers, corruption of the judicial system, cruelty to the poor, and a lack of even ten righteous individuals in the entire city. The issur of mishkav zachor is in Sefer Vayikra.
I used the Schaum’s way back when I was in college in the 1970s. They were very helpful. I eventually earned bachelors and masters degrees in applied mathematics and a doctorate in biostatistics.
Good luck!
YWN,
Thank you for this information.
“No conservative or reform convert intends to accept the 613 mitzvos, thus they are all invalid. No conservative and reform convert intends to keep Shabbos (i.e. not drive, no making fires, opening electricity, etc.) or keep the full taharas hamishpacha.”
This is absolutely not true. I know many heterodox converts who wanted to keep the 613 mitzvot and therefore later had orthodox convertions.
Many poskim disagree with this and would require the couple to go throught an Orthodox divorce prior to remarriage. Rov Soloveitchik z’tz’l even required a woman married by a Reform rabbi to a Reform convert to have him write a get before an Orthodox beit din.
Did R’Aharon read Tolstoy’s novels, Tolstoy’s religious writings, or both?
myfriend,
Most members of conservative and reform congregations are still halachically Jewish. How long what will continue to be the case is uncertain.
Many conservative or reform “converts” would actually have the status of a safek ger, which is in some respects even more of a halachic problem than if they were out-and-out non-Jew. I’m glad I’m not a rabbi and don’t have to deal with these kinds of problems.
“All the tzadikim supporting the Bnei Torah are giving the money voluntarily”
This is not true. The Israeli government provides stipends to yeshiva students through tax revenues. And in the US, yeshiva students are potentially eligible for Pell Grants, also funded through tax revenues.
As a big spending liberal Democrat, I don’t have a problem with government spending on good causes such as this. But you should not pretend that everyone is paying their taxes voluntarily or that all taxpayers are tzadikkim.
(Do I get mitzvah credit simply by being a US taxpayer because a small fraction of my tax dollars goes to support yeshiva students?)
“The Rambam is unequivocal. He absolutely forbids to live on the proceeds of learning Torah.”
rabbiofberlin is correct. While many other rishonim disagreed with the Rambam — and it would be sufficient to cite those sources — there is absolutely no question about his opinion in this matter, as the quote from rabbiofberlin shows. You can look up the original in Hebrew; the translation here is accurate. How can those who distort the words of the Holy Rambam call themselves Bnei Torah?
“The secular Jews all say that Judaism is so wonderful because it’s flexible, you can do whatever you feel like doing.”
In this forum it is the Orthodox Jews who are saying that!
“you are saying the first one to settle the island establishes minhag hamakom”
If they actually establish a community — and the Western European Sefardim who were the first Jews in America certainly did — the answer is yes. Particularly when those who had different minhagim in the old place all accepted it.
“Obviously, no sane person wants to destroy the world they are living in, so therefore she must not believe in the words of Chazal.This is Kefira!”
No, it isn’t kefira. There is no chiyuv to accept any the literality of any particular aggadic statement of Chazal. See Rambam in Guide to the Perplexed, Ramban in the Disputations of Barcelona, and especially Rabbi Avraham ben HaRambam in The Aggadot of the Talmud which is the introduction to the Ein Yaakov. It is bad enough that you wrongly accuse someone of kefira, but you are now distorting the Torah.
P.S. I read the opinion. The Supreme Court ruled in the case against Hardison. A major reason for the majority was that other employees would be required to work on Shabat and to accomodate Hardison would violate their rights. Here is what Justice Marshall wrote in dissent:
“Today’s decision deals a fatal blow to all efforts under Title VII to accommodate work requirements to religious practices. The Court holds, in essence, that although the EEOC regulations and the Act state that an employer must make reasonable adjustments in his work demands to take account of religious observances, the regulation and Act do not [432 U.S. 63, 87] really mean what they say. An employer, the Court concludes, need not grant even the most minor special privilege to religious observers to enable them to follow their faith. As a question of social policy, this result is deeply troubling, for a society that truly values religious pluralism cannot compel adherents of minority religions to make the cruel choice of surrendering their religion or their job. And as a matter of law today’s result is intolerable, for the Court adopts the very position that Congress expressly rejected in 1972, as if we were free to disregard congressional choices that a majority of this Court thinks unwise.”
Justice Marshall was right. And Justice Brennan joined him. The two liberal justices. The right wingers of the time had tried to filibuster Marshall’s appointment in 1967 but failed; it would be 26 years before another Democrat would be appointed to the Supreme Court. Unfortunately today we have a court that consists entirely of right wing radicals (Roberts, Alito, Scalia, Thomas), one erratic conservative (Kennedy) and four timid and outvoted moderates (Ginsburg, Breyer, Sotomayor, and Kagan). Vote Republican and get even less civil rights protection.
rebdoniel,
The failed policies that got us here were those of Bush and the rest of the Republicans: Massive deficits, uncontrolled military spending, an unfunded handout to the insurance industry in the form of the Medicare drug plan, and the collapse of the economy that was followed by the bailout of the banks. It takes a lot longer than two years to recover from such a disaster.
Health,
You wrote,
“This statement is Kefira.”
Gavra is right on this. When you accuse someone of writing kefira, you better have some pretty convincing proof. How do you know SJS didn’t ask a shilah of a rav on this matter?
“Yea, that’s what my judge said, but neither the written law or the Supreme Court’s interpretation of this law says this!”
Actually that IS the Supreme Court interpretation in Trans World Airlines vs. Hardison. And that is the law of the land; the Congress could have overruled them by passing a new law but in 33 years it has not bothered to do so (and unless we get a lot more Democrats in Congress this is very unlikely to happen). Justices Brennan and Marshall dissented in the Hardison case — oh, do we need Justices like them today! But not a single member of the court is as supportive of civil rights are were Justices Brennan and Marshall. With the single exception of Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg, every single appointee to the court in the past 42 years has been more conservative than his/her predecessor and that means that the court is unsympathetic to civil rights, unsympathetic to criminal defendants (like Shalom Rubashkin) and convicted felons (like Jonathan Pollard) but totally sympathetic to corporations wanting to control the entire country (hence the recent *Citizens United* monstrosity). At least the recent Democratic appointees — Ginsburg, Breyer, Sotomayor, and Kagan — are moderates who won’t go along with the worst of the radical agenda.
Sacrilege, you wrote,
“boys go away to Yeshiva at a young age and learn from Rabbeim and take on the Minhagim of the Yeshiva they belong to. There is nothing wrong with this.”
No, there is something VERY wrong with this. Kvod Av requires us to follow in the derech of our fathers. Including minhagim.
RSRH wrote:
“What happened to establishing and following the minhag hamakom, or the minhag of the kehilla to which you belong? “
That was destroyed in America in the early 19th century. The first five Jewish communities here all followed the Western European Sefardic nusach. Even the Ashkenazic Jews followed it. But then the arrogance of the Ashkenazim caused them to want to break away from the established minhagim. Between 1797 and 1850 dozens of Ashkenazic shuls were established, each with whatever minhagim the organizers felt like establishing.
Every single one of those early Ashkenazic congregations either died out or became non-Orthodox. Every single one. Meanwhile, two of the old Sefardic congregations that preserved their minhagim have been operating continuously for over two centuries as Orthodox synagogues.
Judaism is not about “Doing what feels good.” Minhagim are important. Including family minhagim. Not as important as a d’oraita or a d’rabbanan, but we don’t change minhagim unless we have a really good reason.
Admittedly this is not so simple for BTs and gerim. But that is what rabbis are for, to help out in these things!
Ben Torah,
I rarely see anyone in a jacket during the weekday minyan. Personally, I never wear one even on Shabat and no rabbi has ever questioned this.
Health,
I agree with you about the activist judges. Republicans have packed the courts with judges who overturn decades-old precedents and make up laws from nothing. That is one of the most important reasons to vote Democratic.
Another reason to read secular literature: One of the gedolim of our generation is Rabbi Dr. Aharon Lichtenstein. He frequently cites examples from modern literature, history, and philosophy to make Torah points. If you’ve never heard of Milton or Blake or Newman you won’t understand the depth of his Torah.
Note that the people I just mentioned were RELIGIOUS writers yet Rav Lichtenstein still uses them for Torah!