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msseeker,
I thought that this is an Orthodox Jewish site, not a conservative politics web site.
Recorded music or sheet music?
Mod-80,
Thanks!
We must NEVER spread such emails without checking them out. The consequences from the motzi shem ra can be terrible for the victim of the hoax.
“Men have the very same chiyuv regarding hafrashas challah.”
True! And also for lighting Shabat and Yom Tov candles. I’ve been surprised at the number of otherwise well-learned men who don’t know that. When I’m out of town for work I have to light myself. And on rare occasions I’ve lit Shabat candles for my wife when she has been stuck late in clinic or hospital, treating patients.
I love to cook! My wife and I share the Shabat cooking about equally. She got me into Indian cooking and I love it! (Red lentils left overnight on the blech make a great cholent substitute.)
” that only leads the question back to why was it translated before the aruch hashulchan”
Well for one thing it is MUCH shorter! It only covers 1/4 of the Shulchan Aruch. And the author of AHS restates the Shulchan Aruch in his own language, the MB is in the form of a separate commentary.
Dayan Michael Broyde is currently directing a project to translate the Aurch HaShulchan.
“I can’t believe that anyone can argue that the MB in our generation, is the prime resource for a baal habos to look up a quick fix halocho answer.”
I suspect that a major reason for that is simply that it has been translated into English, while the Aruch HaShulchan has not been.
“every person here is very selective in what he quote and follows. Let people decide on what their minhag is and don’t excoriate them if someone has a different view. It may be equally valid. “
Well said.
A lot of communities follow the Aruch HaShulchan, written by Rabbi Yechiel Michel Epstein z’tz’l, in preference to the Mishnah Berurah, a position endorsed by Rabbi Yosef Eliyahu Henkin z’tz’l. Unlike the Mishnah Berurah or the Kitzer Shulchan Aruch, it covers most of the halachah of the (original) Shulchan Aruch.
‘For example, what obligations – operational and financial- are required for the employer in order to get the tax credit? You make it sound like a tax credit is good for the employers, but is the whole picture good for employers?’
It took me just two minutes to find the details on the IRS web site.
‘I do not know what is the medicare “donut hole”, but I am sure that different people describe it differently. Consequently, there will be different “fixes” to it. How does the law address it (whatever it is) effectively?’
That one was even easier, there is a nice Wikipedia article on “Medicare Part D Coverage Gap”.
“Dr. Hall, can we repeal the 1099 requirement? “
Absolutely!!! That is the one part of the law that should be repealed.
I don’t think there is any point in my continuing to comment on this thread.
As the Coffee Room gets meaner and meaner…..
Mod and Moq,
Nothing to be ashamed of: Epidemiology is rarely studied except in graduate school. It is simply the study of disease in populations (as opposed to individuals). It is how we know things like
Cigarette smoking causes cancer
The HIV virus causes AIDS
Vaccines do not cause autism
Diabetes causes heart disease and blindness
Unfortunately I’m only paid to teach medical students and graduate students and not the general public; we public health folks have not done a good job of explaining things to the general public and as a result there are a lot of things that people believe that aren’t true.
I may start a separate thread on epidemiology in Nach and Shas.
Waterboarding CLEARLY is torture. Whether it is a criminal matter is not clear to me. And I’m not sure a President can be prosecuted for actions taken while in office; the Constitution seems to provide impeachment as the remedy.
I’m also not sure what purpose such a prosecution would serve in this case.
I’m also not convinced that torture provides consistently useful information. Police detectives know that they can get criminals to confess under interrogation to all kinds of things that they did not do! That may be one reason why self-incriminating evidence is not permitted in a Jewish court.
Gavra,
There were some really good ideas from Republicans in the 1970s (Nixon/Ford) and the 1990s (Dole/Chaffee). The Nixon/Ford plan was pretty similar to what got passed last year; the Dole/Chaffee plan was far more radical as it would have basically eliminated employer-provided insurance and required all individuals to buy insurance. I really liked the Dole/Chaffee plan and I thought that the Clintons made a big mistake in not negotiating with them, just as Kennedy made a big mistake in not negotiating with Nixon in 1973/1974 until it was too late. I wish that the Republicans had been willing to put forth real proposals last year rather than just obstruct; the only Republican who did seriously try to work with a Democrat was Robert Bennett and the the Republican right wingers primaried him.
Moq,
My training is in biostatistics and epidemiology, not health care policy. Go ahead and argue!
Bush ignored many other laws including the one requiring the US Embassy in Israel to be moved to Jerusalem and the one requiring US Passports to say, “Jerusalem, Israel” rather than simply “Jerusalem”.
I want none of those things repealed. Repealing the unpopular mandate will mean that nobody in their right mind would buy insurance until they are sick which will drive currently high premiums into orbit. That this is so unpopular is yet another example of the American Entitlement mentality of wanting something for nothing.
The Kaiser Foundation released a poll showing broad support for the most important aspects of Obamacare, save one:
(1) Tax credits to small businesses that offer insurance to their employees — approved 78% to 18%
(2) Closing the Medicare “donut hole” — approved 72% to 22%
(3) Financial help for those who don’t hav…e employer based insurance so they can afford premiums — approved 71% to 24%
(4) Eliminating the pre-existing condition exclusion — approved 71% to 26%
(5) Increasing the Medicare tax on higher incomes — approved 54% to 39%
(6) Mandating that everyone be insured — disapproved 68% to 27%
Precisely which points of the plan do YOU want repealed?
(1) Tax credits to small businesses that offer insurance to their employees
(2) Closing the Medicare “donut hole”
(3) Financial help for those who don’t hav…e employer based insurance so they can afford premiums
(4) Eliminating the pre-existing condition exclusion
(5) Increasing the Medicare tax on higher incomes
(6) Mandating that everyone be insured
‘”Dr. Hall” has what sort of doctorate? ‘
I earned a doctorate in biostatistics from Johns Hopkins University. I am not a physician.
I have no opinion on this particular issue; I am familiar with neither the facts or the law.
“However, the MO way of thinking and perception of Judaism seems likewise very shallow/superficial to us Chareidim.”
Do you understand it? Ever attend a shiur by Rabbis Schachter or Willig or Rosensweig or Linzer? Or read any of the many writings of Rabbi Lichtenstein?
“The same Rav Ahron that said (and is written in his Mishnas Rabi Ahron, vol. 3, in his Hesped for the Brisker Rov) that the essence of Modern Orthodoxy is the same as the Reform and Conservative. “
OTOH he also had Rav Soloveitchik as the featured speaker at the very first Chinuch Atzmai fundraising dinner. And Rav Kotler deferred to Rav Soloveitchik on at least one importent public policy matter, on a bill in the US Congress that might have affected kashrut in the US. Could you ever imagine him deferring to Rabbi Mordecai Kaplan?
Mod-80,
There really is no place in the New York area where non-tzniut women are not seen.
It used to be that shuls had social events for singles. I know people who met and got married after having met at shul events! Why did that stop? What better place to create a partner for a Torah lifestyle than in a shul!
“Is it a chiyuv to learn Gemorah w/o any relation to acquiring the know how to practice halachos properly; yes or no?”
I don’t know why it would be. There is a lot of other torah that can be learned: Chumash, Nach, Ketuvim, Machshevah, Midrash….all fulfill the mitzvah of talmud torah.
I think most would argue that knowing the halachic sources in the gemara does enable one to understand the halachah better.
matjash,
Why would it be crazy if she is a football fan or might be interested? It is a public place and there will be plenty of time to talk.
Wow!!!! I am not worthy of such an honor!!!!
I have to get to work now but will post positive things here in the future.
Before we were married my wife and I went on a date to the top of the Empire State Building. On the 86th floor observation deck I pulled out a ring and offered it to her :).
Do what you really want. You absolutely can not rely on the job market being 30 years ago what it is today.
And don’t forget to put Torah first. It also is not a bad idea to postpone college until you are sufficiently mature to appreciate it — especially as hard work really does pay off.
[and hence connecting to God] with each word of Torah that they utter from their mouths while studying.”
Speak for yourself. We absolutely consider it a mitzvah and a connection to God.
“modern orthodoxy is about compromising halacha.”
Nope. As Rov Soloveitchik z’tz’l is reported to have said, “Moderation is not compromise.” And he had a very close relationship with R’Kotler, even raising money for him.
“The issue with Modern Orthodoxy is that their Judaism carries no spiritual significance”
Again, speak for yourself, not for others — and unless you have the power to read minds, don’t question the spiritual lives of others.
For me, there is tremendous spiritual value in doing something — anything — that is commanded by my Creator.
“it seems that the girls who volunteer to engage in Talmudic study, are not studying out of desire to personally experience the intellectual beauty of the Torah”
Based on what evidence do you make that statement? Do you know any women who study talmud?
” did the Rav endorse coed schools or allow them under given circumstances? “
He endorsed them (and girls learning T”S”B”P) in writing in a letter to Rabbi Leonard Rosenfeld in 1953. Before he responded he made Rabbi Rosenfeld agree that he would follow whatever The Rav said. Here is the letter:
“Dear Rabbi Rosenfeld:
Please accept my apologies for not answering your letters sooner. The delay was due to my overcrowded schedule. As to your question with regard to a curriculum in a coeducational school, I expressed my opinion to you long ago that it would be a very regrettable oversight on our part if we were to arrange separate Hebrew courses for girls. Not only is the teaching of Torah she-be-al peh to girls permissible but it is nowadays an absolute imperative. This policy of discrimination between the sexes as to subject matter and method of instruction which is still advocated by certain groups within our Orthodox community has contributed greatly to the deterioration and downfall of traditional Judaism. Boys and girls alike should be introduced to the inner halls of Torah she-be-al peh.
I hope to prepare in the near future a halakhic brief on the same problem which will exhaust the various aspects of the same. In the meantime I heartily endorse a uniform program for the entire student body. “
I’ll post a link if the moderator gives permission.
Unfortunately he never wrote that halachic brief, but the Rav’s position is clear. He had previously started a co-ed school in the Boston area, and later taught single sex talmud classes at YU. My own rabbi has indicated that the Rav was even more adamant on this issue.
“You will not find anywhere in all the halachic discussion in all of Shas a discussion about why Hashem created the world, why He cares if you are religious, or anything along those lines. If you must learn Gemora for that reason, learn Ain Yaakov”
Huh??? Where do you think Ain Yaakov comes from??? A third of the gemara is aggadata and a lot of it is philosophical!
“disregard a clear and unanimous halachah in Gemora and poskim”
Sorry, I just proved that it isn’t unanimous.
“I also wonder whether anyone has any halachik opinions about women learning the laws, le’havdil alfei havdalos, of other nations?”
I can’t imagine why there would be any issur in learning the laws that you are required to follow in the society in which you live. After all, dina malchutcha dina *is* the halachah. And accidental violations can carry severe penalties as we see with the bocherim in Japan; had they been smuggling the antiquities they thought they were smuggling they would have paid a fine and been released. (Of course, smuggling violates halachah too, but that is another issue.)
“A corollary might be assumed to be that the community is remiss if they don’t offer full opportunities to learn gemara, including appropriate prep;”
Based on the words that my rav has quoted me, I think that Rav Soloveitchik may actually have thought that such communities are remiss. That is a very strong position and is certainly a chidush. But he was a gedol and was entitled to his opinion and his students are entitled to follow it (and may in fact be *obligated* to follow it). R’Kotler, R’Hutner, and the Lubavicher Rebbe were very close to him even though they certainly disagreed with The Rav on this one.
” and that women are remiss if they don’t avail themselves of these opportunities.”
I am not aware of The Rav saying that. Strictly speaking, there is no chiyuv even for *men* to learn gemara. It is just better to learn all the sources for the halachah if you want to be as careful as possible in mitzvot and that applies to men and women.
” I hesitate to tie down his shitta, since I did not hear it from him directly. “
That is ok, my rav did. And of the thousands of his talmidim, there is only one, Rav Meiselman, who thinks that The Rav didn’t really mean it when he said he wanted gemara to be available to women.
And The Rav *personally* taught gemara to women so there is no question that he thought this was not a theoretical matter.
‘Can you please bring Talmudic sources for this psak of Rav Soloveichik Zt”l that communities are obligated to teach women Gemora?’
No. He never wrote a halachic tshuvah on this. (He rarely wrote a halachic tshuvah on anything; one of the few things for which we have a written halachic opinion from The Rav is an endorsement of co-ed schools.
” [If you are allowed to question Rash”i’s opinion, we may definitely question Rav Soloveichik’s.”
Certainly! Many have done so and continue to do so, and not just in the Charedi world. For example, Rav Aviner in Israel forbids women being taught gemara. (I’m not aware of any non-Charedi rabbis in America who do.) But Rav Soloveitchik is a legitimate gedol and my rav — and the rabbis of my community — are entitled to follow him.
” Also, since the Rishonim have not stated such an obligation, shouldn’t this psak be considered another one of your examples of arguing with rishonim?]”
Absolutely. As I pointed out, poskim — especially Ashkenazic poskim — can and do argue on rishonim even when there is no rishon to back them up.
I’m not sure this is going to happen. Birthrates have been high for 60 years but the Ashkenazic Charedi parties still have the same five seats in the Knesset as they had 60 years ago. There seems to be a lot of going off the derech.
“we seem to be going around in circles; is it optional or obligatory?”
The Rav said it was a chiyuv for communities to teach women gemara. He was VERY adamant about this and also in his opposition to watered down Jewish studies curricula in girls’ schools. I’m not aware of him ever saying that it was a chiyuv for *every* woman to learn gemara.
‘ “Women learning” ended up being a Machlokes between most Chassidim and Rabbi Miller in one corner, and Rav Kotler and most Litvish Rabbonim in the other’
And in the third corner was the entire Mizrachi movement led by Rav Soloveitchik.
“Women may not learn the Written Torah in depth”
So must we burn Nechamah Leibowitz’s books?
I usually run down to the (kosher) cafeteria, grab lunch, and eat at my desk while working. I take off a bit of time a bit later to catch a minchah minyan.
“This is how the womens gemara classes do it as well. “
WADR, you have no idea what you are talking about. Have you ever met some of the women who have completed programs at Midreshet Lindenbaum, Drisha, Nishmat, or GPATS?
“They hold that since Rashi merely explains the pshuto shel mikrah – the simple meaning of the text, it would be considered Torah shebiksav in this sense. “
As all of us who have learned Rashi on Chumash know, he often goes far beyond the simple meaning of the text.
And even before Rashi on Chumash was taught in girls’ schools, Tzena Urena was taught to girls; it is full of T”S”B”P.
“And not all Gedolim agreed with the BY movement”
Meanwhile, OTHER gedolim, specifically in Germany, had preceded the BY movement by generations in teaching torah to women. (This also happened in America too but I don’t think there was an acknowledged gedol in America until about the turn of the 20th century.)
“If you do indeed agree that it’s optional”
Did you read my comment? I just said that it is NOT optional!
myfriend,
SJS just proved that we don’t follow the Shulchan Aruch on this.
“I don’t think it actually exists, and is yet another example of the more “Charaidi” (RAM) Olam misquoting or flat out making up sources.”
Unfortunately there has been quite a bit of misrepresentation of halachic sources in this chat room.
“it is hard to consider psychology a matter of empirical fact. “
Some psychology *is*; I’ve personally published a lot of psychology data. But that isn’t what we are talking about here: The fact is that there ARE women who are outstanding torah scholars and teachers.
“You state from Rav Soloveitchik Zt”l that he paskened that women have ‘chiyuv’ to actually study gemorah”
Please reread my post and you will see that is not what I said (or what The Rav said).
“Some achoaronim were willing to, but there is no contemporary posek who will.”
Not true. An obvious example of this is the unwillingness to accept the Ethiopian Jews as Jews despite the fact no rishon agrees (and the Radvaz paskened otherwise). Another obvious example is the ban on university education; I’ve seen no rabbinic objection prior to the 19th century (and Sforno earned his medical degree at the University of Rome).
We pay just over $5K in property taxes for a four bedroom house on a lot that is approximately 1/6 acre.
popa,
The gemara in Sanhedrin 59 points out that there is nothing permitted to a Jew that is prohibited to a gentile. The difference is that gentiles may have penalties that may not be permitted in a Jewish court. Examples are that a gentile court may enforce a death penalty for theft or abortion, neither of which is a death penalty offence in Judiasm.
Interestingly, abortion has never been treated as murder in common law or anywhere in the US under statutory law.
popa,
Poskim, especially Ashkenazic ones, will argue on *halachah* with rishonim, even when they don’t have a competing rishon to back them up. Kal v’chomer on a matter of empirical fact. We don’t follow Rambam’s medical advice when it disagrees with modern science. We don’t follow Ibn Ezra’s geography when it is clearly at odds with the actual geography of Eretz Yisrael. The rishonim were great, but they didn’t have access to the facts we have today. They were experts in Torah, not science or geography.
WellInformedYid,
Many rabbis permit vocal music. Rov Soloveitchik z’tz’l permitted opera. YU has had an annual opera fundraiser for decades. This year it isn’t an opera but Mendelssohn’s oratorio, “Elijah”.
“charlie – girls are halachicly prohibited from learning gemorah. Only YU and non-Orthodox types engage in that. “
Rov Soloveitchik z’tz’l said that it was a *chiyuv* on Jewish communities to teach women gemara. He *personally* taught women gemara. The rabbis in my community all learned from The Rov or his students and they all hold by that position. It is certainly possible to pasken otherwise, but we are entitled to follow The Rov — as is anyone who wishes to follow his derech.
myfriend,
You are incorrect. Rav Soloveitchik z’tz’l permitted a Tay Sachs fetus to be aborted through the sixth month of pregnancy. Rav Aviner recentely permitted a Down’s syndrome fetus to be aborted. Rav Yisraeli z’tz’l and Rav Halperin have ruled similarly.