Forum Replies Created
-
Posts
-
“They absolutely do say Tefilas Tal. They say it before the private shmoneh esrei (amidah)”
Every Nusach Ashkenaz shul I’ve ever been in has the chazan recite Tefilat Tal during the repetition of the Shemoneh Esrei. It is in the Artscroll Nusach Ashkenaz Machzor.
“It isn’t a shilah.”
After I posted that I realized that it might be misleading. She has consulted with distinguished rabbis over exactly what and what not a doctor can do to treat patients on Shabat, and under what conditions. We also rule leniently in matters of doubt because of pikuach nefesh. And very little that doctors do on Shabat is actually melachah d’oraita. The “it isn’t a shilah” is that a doctor does not distinguish between Jewish and non-Jewish patients, not that there isn’t a lot of halachah that one must learn in order to treat patients on Shabat.
“how does Hatzolah treat non-Jews on Shabbos?”
My wife is a doctor and she treats non-Jews on Shabbos. It isn’t a shilah.
“certainly a psak that someone on a jury cannot vote to convict a yid or find him liable to another party in the absence of halachic thresholds”
While someone might pasken that way, three different Orthodox rabbis have told me in no uncertain terms (1) A Jew must serve on a jury if called, with one exception, (2) A Jew while on a jury should follow the secular law even if it criminalizes things that aren’t against the Torah, provides for monetary penalties not according to the standards of the Torah, or sends even a Jew to prison when that would not be a Torah punishment, and (3) The exception is that a Jew may not serve on any jury in a death penalty trial, whether the defendant is Jewish or non-Jewish, because the standards for the administration of death penalties in the US fall far below even the minimal standards required for Noachide courts.
“would it be possible to hold a job in the us government other than mayor, congress, senate, type of positions, maybe even be required to frequently travel to foreign countries and still be shomer shabbos? “
I know a civilian employee of the Defense Department who does just that.
“I must note though that some disagree with me on that, regarding Shabbos”
There are lots of kulot for national security work. But not all rabbis know them. Find a knowledgeable rabbi, and good luck!
Baruch Dayan HaEmet. Is there a shiva?
“a kashrus agency that’s reliable that’s under strict rabbinical supervision would want to make sure that everyone knows that they’re reliable.”
That isn’t necessarily true. There are many reliable local rabbis whose main interest is supporting their own communities and for them it is not worth a marketing campaign to spread their word. Many actually ARE well-respected and work with the national kashrut agencies.
Furthermore, there are opinions (I don’t have the source in front of me, but I think the Rema holds this way — can anyone confirm) that the d’oraita of writing is only in Hebrew, in the usual manner with a pen. While I have played Hebrew Scrabble (and also Spanish Scrabble) I’ve only played US English Scrabble on Shabat.
“In regular scrabble, you record the score. It’s assur miderabanon. In Scrabble, the pieces interlock, it’s really writing and it’s assur mideoraisa.”
False on all three. My wife and I play Scrabble regularly. We don’t record the score; we keep track using bookmarks in books, so nothing is getting recorded at all. And as anyone who has ever played Scrabble knows, the pieces do NOT interlock. In some of the more deluxe editions of Scrabble the boards do have squares with raised edges to hold the pieces which as noted above does cause halachic concerns; we just use the old flat cardboard playing board that causes no concern.
“But the blame lies with the Israeli Gov. and its’ leaders at that time.”
Agree. The charedim were part of the government and its leaders, so they share in the blame.
“you can’t even debate Rav Kooks view on women?”
Rav Uziel z’tz’l wrote a long tshuvah in response to Rav Kook’s opinion limiting the role of women in modern society; he pretty much devastated Rav Kook’s arguments. It was very rare for Rav Kook z’tz’l to be proven wrong on anything!
“Stop with your hatred towards Charedim already. Yes, they joined the Gov., but they weren’t the Majority of that Gov., nor was the disengagement their idea. “
Who is expressing hatred? I’m just pointing out the fact, which seems inconvenient to you, that when the Religious Zionist parties pulled out of the government after the announcement of the disengagement plan, the Charedim jumped in and joined the government shortly thereafter.
If you say that you can’t blame Charedim for the disengagement because they were not the majority, I’ll accept that — but then you have to stop blaming Religious Zionists for the “share the burden” efforts because the RZs are also not the majority of the government today. Fair?
‘They are all “modern” Gedolim.’
Modern in the sense that they lived after 1800. But all were products of a very traditional Torah education. R’Adler learned with his father and received semicha from Rabbi Abraham Bing. R’Hildesheimer was a talmid of R’Yaakov Ettlinger and R’Yitzchak Bernays. R’Herzog and R’Soloveitchik received most of their early education from their fathers.
“if someone asked a rav or gadol who went through the current university system, if they’d say they were unaffected, and hadn’t lost any part of their frumkeit, sensitivity, strength, through their years there”
Rav Soloveitchik z’tz’l clearly saw it as a positive. His wife, son, both daughters, and both sons-in-law all earned doctorates as well. One son-in-law was a Harvard professor (and Rambam expert!) Prof. Twersky, and the other, Rav Lichtenstein, uses his ability as a master of English literature to make Torah points on a regular basis. (It is actually worth it to read Milton and Blake in order to fully understand Rav Lichtenstein’s Torah!) Rav Hirsch explicitly states that secular education such as that which he received at the University of Bonn is a good thing.
Today in America most rabbis with university educations have gone to Yeshiva College or maybe Touro (much newer). So their experience may not be applicable to, say, Columbia or Queens College.
Nevertheless you make an interesting point. I’ve listed many university-educated gedolim. I once asked a very prominent rav, who himself has a doctorate, what they had written about their university experiences (as opposed to the benefits after university). I had hoped that they might offer some insights as to the challenges a frum Jew might face both inside the classroom (where ideologies inconsistent with Torah do appear) and outside (where licentiousness and hedonism has been common for hundreds of years). To my surprise I found that none had written anything about the matter. 🙁
In Bronx County, lack of child care is grounds for postponement, but only for a while. They expect you to take care of your child care needs and report. Jews should definitely serve on juries when called.
“Torah thought is full of ideas we absolutely believe to be true, yet are utterly contradictory. “
Rav Soloveitchik z’tz’l pointed out that the Law of the Excluded Middle does not apply to Judaism. Therefore it is possible to have two apparently contradictory concepts, and have either both true, or neither true.
“stay in Teaneck if you are one of the Yidden who have been poisoned by the nochrim”
That is a pretty disgusting thing to say.
“The problem with college brainwashing is it’s dishonest and immoral.”
I’m not convinced that any brainwashing is taking place to any significant extent whatsoever. Most professors in departments outside of economics are political liberals yet for a generation the hot author among college students has been Ayn Rand. But far more students are too interested in drinking, partying, and various other hedonisms to pay attention to the ideology of the professor. (That, BTW, may explain the appeal of Ayn Rand — she purported to provide a moral justification for self-centered hedonism — the exact opposite of what the Torah teaches.)
It isn’t that there aren’t problems with secular universities, or that Orthodox students don’t need to be prepared. But one needs to be accurate in the assessment if we are to do good by our young people. Simply calling it “brainwashing” doesn’t help, and with the possible exception of Rabbi Avigdor Miller z’tz’l, who was a graduate of Yeshiva College and not a secular institution, none of the many university-educated gedolim have characterized universities in that way.
“BY is Not for these girls.”
It is easy to forget given the success of the BY movement, but there was Torah education for girls in Germany and America two generations before Sara Schnirer, in what we would today call “modern orthodox day schools”. While the language in Mishlei is in the masculine, the admonition should apply to girls as well.
“Because this is Not the purpose of college.”
Actually, the purpose of college for many years was supposed to be to expose all students to the important streams of Western thought (mostly non-Jewish), and to teach critical thinking skills. There really isn’t anything inherently wrong with that; a yeshiva or day school graduate who is well-grounded in the ikkarim of our faith and the moral and ethical principles that follow from them will be able to filter out the ideologies that are incompatible with Judaism.
Is there a problem with our educational system that people are coming out not well grounded? I continue to be amazed at the number of frum people who act as if our attitude towards abortion is the same as the Catholic Church, or that the Torah’s attitude towards economics is similar to that of Ayn Rand!
“teachers were using metric instead of imperial to brainwash us into being like europe”
If this is not a joke, you will be surprised to know that the metric system has been legal in the United States since the 1860s. All “Imperial” measures are now defined officially in terms of the metric system. For example, an inch is exactly 2.54 centimeters.
‘They give examples in terms that are meant to convince you of things and your brain doesn’t even know to reject it because “it’s just an example”.’
That is good training for your brain! There is a paucity of logical thought in our society. Much of what we believe to be true just isn’t true. (And logical thought is no threat to Judaism as long as we are grounded in our ikkarim, which are not susceptible to either logical or empirical disproof. Of course, as I have mentioned in the previous thread, this is not for everyone — all should consult with their rav regarding educational programs.)
“I have never met anyone who stayed as frum as they were in the beginning after a real graduate degree.”
There are actually a lot of gedolim who have earned graduate degrees from universities. Here is just a few examples from the past:
Rabbi Dr. Nathan Marcus Adler z’tz’l
Rabbi Dr. Ezriel Hildesheimer z’tz’l
Rabbi Dr. Yitzchak Herzog z’tz’l
Rabbi Dr. Joseph Soloveitchik z’tz’l
But not all of us are like these gedolim. Educational directions should be discussed with ones rav.
“remain in my place of frumkeit in a non-quantitative or empirical field”
I find Rambam’s encouragement that as one learns more about the natural world, the more one should appreciate our Creator, to be inspiring and as a result my own frumkeit is deepened with every new scientific discovery. But as I mentioned in an earlier comment, Rambam’s approach is not for everyone.
“I just want to quote this for posterity.”
Feel free to do so.
“So you brainwash your graduate students and junior faculty?”
No. And I never implied that “brainwashing” occurs at all. But there are some academic fads that can take hold, particularly in humanities and softer sciences that are farther removed from empirical data.
ATTENTION MODERATORS!
This is copyrighted material by Rafael Medoff that appeared in the *Los Angeles Times* today. This is a sufficiently large excerpt that it is probably more than what is permitted by fair use. Furthermore, there is no attibution, which constitutes illegal plagiarism even for a small segment.
Here is the source:
Thank you for pointing this out, charlie.
It is worthwhile reviewing the history of the Gaza disengagement: After the RZ parties left the government in response to the announcement of the disengagement plan, Agudath Israel, which had not been a part of any Israeli government since the early 1950s, joined the government! That was (correctly) viewed as a slap in the face by the Religious Zionists. If one is to seriously blame the government for the consequences of the disengagement, the charedi leaders have to share that blame.
“you are not required to believe, let alone follow, any of them.”
As a professor, I regret that I must say that is not always the case. There exist academic fads and while undergraduates can ignore them and survive, that is not the case for graduate students and junior faculty.
Regarding the Jewish educational system, I did not have the opportunity to attend yeshiva (and of course not BY) but I have noticed that most yeshivot do not teach kol haTorah kulah. As a result, many graduates are unprepared to deal with the challenges of modern society — and not because of inadequate prep in math, science, or history.
As an example: Many graduates of the Jewish educational system who become disillusioned with Judaism end up seeking out Eastern religions as a reaction to the perception that practicing Judaism is about extreme behavior. When I meet them I point them to the section of Rambam’s Hilchot Deot where he brings down as binding halachah that one must pursue moderation in everything with the exception of the humility/arrogance spectrum. Not one of these off-the-derech folks had ever heard that.
Another example: While the Torah faces no challenge from science, those who don’t understand either or both sometimes think that there is one. Again the Rambam has an approach, not often taught, that addresses this adequately for most.
A third example: Many midrashic and aggadic texts seem fanciful and bizarre on first reading. The approach of Rabbi Avraham ben HaRambam, printed as the intro to the Ein Yaakov aggadic compilation, is an approach that can be used to address this while preserving respect for the text and the authors. That may be why the publishers of the Ein Yaakov put it there! Ramban also clearly agreed with this approach — see his comments in his recording of the Disputation of Barcelona. For difficult Torah narratives examples of Rambam’s approach in his Guide to the Perplexed can offer similar solutions.
A fourth example: As we approach the day on which many observe Yom HaShoah we face the very painful question of how HaShem could allow such horrible things to happen to so many good people. There are of course many answers, some of which will be more satisfying than others to different people. Rambam again has an approach that in the past was more popular but has fallen out of favor, in which he restricts Divine Providence to groups rather than to individuals.
Now, many will find this rationalist approach based on Rambam and others with a similar machshavah cold and unappealing. That is fine; they should follow a different approach. The actual number of ikkarim in Judaism is quite small: 13 according to Rambam, 6 according to Crescas, 3 according to Albo. But it should be made available at least to students for whom it is necessary! And all students should understand that it is a perfectly acceptable hashkafah that was held by some of our greatest sages.
In two of the works of the great frum novelist Herman Wouk (still alive at the age of 97) there is a brilliant yeshiva student who at the age of 15 has a crisis when he concludes that Shedim (demons) can’t possibly exist; that they don’t make any sense. Because of this doubt he is expelled from the yeshiva and he goes WAY off the derech. A good rebbe would have congratulated him, pointing out that while that is not the majority opinion, it was the conclusion that no less a figure than Rambam came to!
As you probably guessed, I do find Rambam’s approach to many aspects of Judaism quite appealing. There are other approaches of course, and the entire spectrum of such approaches should be made available to students as appropriate. This is not my original opinion, it was originated by someone far, Far, FAR more brilliant then me, Shlomo HaMelech:
?????? ???????? ??? ???? ???????? ???? ???? ???????? ??? ?????? ?????????
(Mishlei 22:6).
As a professor I’d like to comment on the allegations of brainwashing by colleges. At most such institutions is hard enough to get undergraduates away from drinking, partying, and other irresponsible behavior to get them to pay enough attention in class to become subject to brainwashing!
“I feel that the terrorists are being forced by Hashem to attack”
I’ve read a lot of apologetics for terrorists, on their own internet sites, on the sites of the anti-Israel Left, of the anti-Semitic right, and of the clueless folks who say that both parties are equally at fault. But this takes the cake for the worst justification. And it is on what is supposed to be a frum Jewish site. The terrorists are rashaim, period.
“or hallel”
Or even better, Hallel on Rosh Chodesh. According to all opinions it is minhag, not halachah.
I had never thought about this so I looked it up. Shulchan Aruch Orach Chaim 271:10 distinguishes between “Vaychulu”, “Borei Pri HaGafen”, and “Kiddush” and indicates that they are recited in that order, so strictly speaking the “Kiddush” is the blessing after the blessing on wine. Mishnah Berurah to the same states that one must repeat “Vaychulu” even though one has said it twice in shul, even saying that if one did not say “Vaychulu” at kiddush one says it during the meal over a cup of wine. MB also cites an opinion that it is required to recite “Vaychulu” three times every Friday night — twice in shul and once at the the meal. Interestingly, though, the reason given for saying it at the table is so that children and family members who presumably didn’t go to shul can hear it.
So I guess it technically isn’t part of Kiddush but you still have to say it?
To quote a comment on the other thread, “Most hold that it’s mutar.”
Given that the mitzvah of talmud torah is a d’oraita, and is in effect at all times and at all places, and that all of Nach (including Tehillim) is Torah, I can’t see how anything other than a universally accepted decree from Chazal, such as that for Tisha B’Av, could overturn it.
It wasn’t pizza I wanted to eat; it was rice!
“I saw a tshuvah from R Shrirah Gaon saying not to follow the medicinal remedies from Chazal unless you have first researched them since Chazal were not doctors.”
Not only did he write that, but it is now a universally accepted position. If you get sick you need to go to a real doctor and not to a talmid chacham for diagnosis and treatment. Of course, before you do that you need to remember that it is HaShem who is the real healer.
“I don’t think he’d hold by the science he had in his days (same with Hazal; they were going by what was available they had in their days).”
Correct. In numerous places one can see Chazal’s care in observation. In at least one place (Pesachim 94) they accept that the non-Jewish explanation is better than theirs. Rambam is explicit about this in Guide to the Perplexed III, 14.
Rav Hirsch confirms this; see “The Educational Value of Judaism”, in *Collected Works, Vol. 7*.
“The IDF conversions have many problems and are not accepted in the wider Orthodox world.”
Rabbi Ovadia Yosef accepts them.
“It sounds like you’re in the US. Why can’t you convert while you’re in graduate school?”
I agree. Find the local Orthodox rabbi and talk to him. He can supervise you and take you to a respected out of town beit din if there is none in your community. I know many who have done that.
Good luck!
“However, if R’ Elyashiv said that they are apikursim, you cannot demand that the Halacha be changed”
Rambam didn’t include that as an ikkar of faith. Neither did R’Hasdai Crescas. Nor did R’Yosef Albo. It appears in none of the lists of 613 mitzvot. Does an Acharon have the power to change halachah by adding an ikkar?
There is so much to ask about this haftarah. I had a rabbi and rebbitzen (the latter also a daughter of a rabbi and a Jewish Studies grad student) as guests for dinner last night and they declined to give divrei Torah on it. Perhaps one of YWN’s rabbinic consultants might give us some Torah to help us out?
Why would anyone EVER be so concerned about an accidental violation of what is by all opinions minhag and not halachah? Why, there isn’t even any penalty for an inadvertant violation of a mitzvah d’rabbanan! Just try to be more careful for the future, and enjoy the remainder of Pesach.
“Actually it is the husband’s job to determine the halacha and minhagim for his families observance.”
Not if the husband isn’t a posek!
“If he doesn’t want his wife to wear a sheitel, then he should stipulate that when going out on shidduchim.”
I always thought that it was the woman’s job to figure out how to cover her hair in accordance with halachah, in consultation with her rabbi.
Correction to the parenthetical statement for Rav Miller. It should read:
(Undergraduate degree from Yeshiva College; it would not be fair to Rav Miller’s memory to fail to mention that later in life that he became an opponent of that institution)
Prominent University-educated rabbis of the past (many of whom can be called gedolim):
Rambam (Islamic philosophy; University of al-Karaouine, Fez, Morocco)
Sforno (Medicine; University of Rome)
Rabbi Dr. Joseph Solomon Delmedigo (Medicine; University of Padua, which had granted degrees to hundreds of observant Jews before the 19th century)
Rabbi Samson Raphael Hirsch (Undergraduate study, University of Bonn)
Rabbi Dr. Ezriel Hildesheimer (Undergraduate study, University of Berlin, and PhD in Bible from University of Halle-Wittenberg)
Rabbi Dr. Bernard Revel (PhD from Dropsie College; dissertation on the Karaites)
Rabbi Dr. Yitzhak HaLevi Herzog (PhD from University of London; in his dissertation he identified the source for techelit)
Rabbi Dr. Joseph Soloveitchik (PhD in Jewish philosophy from University of Berlin)
Rabbi Yitzchok Hutner (studied Jewish philosophy at the University of Berlin; Rav Soloveitchik was a classmate!)
Rabbi Avigdor Miller (Undergraduate degree from Yeshiva College; it would not be fair to Rav Miller’s memory that later in life to fail to mention that he became an opponent of that institution)
And the list of living rabbis with university education is very long.
I of course am not fit to argue anything with Rav Shach z’tz’l! But others of similar stature did not agree with him.
“those who believe that the Universe is less than 6000 years old apikorsim?”
No, just uninformed. There is SO much that we see from day to day that wouldn’t work were it not for the fact that the world is ancient. The fact that you are working on a computer right now is one of them: The electricity you use probably comes from either (ancient) coal or natural gas, or (even more ancient) uranium.
“Some Arab MK said recently ‘we don’t want to serve and you don’t want us serving’. “
Yet there have always been a small number of Arabs serving in the IDF; the Druze community even accepts being drafted and I’m aware of one Druze who became a general.
“The IDF is Completely untrustworthy to uphold halacha for observant soldiers.”
The IDF has good rabbis. It should follow them! (As should all the religious soldiers, from whatever background. Ideally, ALL the soldiers should follow them.)
Note that there are many kulot for armies; we just learned four of them in Daf Yomi.
Only once. But it helped that the rabbi announced immediately before the shemoneh esrei the four changes in the tefillah!
Perhaps there is a non-literal meaning to the midrash?
Plenty of rabbonim accept evolution and you can rely on them. Enjoy your wine.