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We all could help make frum shuls more hospitable. It is mutar to say “Shalom aleichem” and “Shabat Shalom” to people you don’t know.
“Chovevei Tzion pre-dates Herzl and the secular zionist movement.”
I was going to say this but you beat me too it. The 19th century Jewish settlers in Eretz Yisrael were mostly religious.
And has others have pointed out, Herzl wasn’t particularly anti-religious, and he really does meet the definition of tinok shenishba. He had no problem when gedolim like Rav Reines and Rav Kook supported Zionism — the hostility toward Torah would come from later Zionists.
“i doubt anyone else on this site is understanding zionism that way. it generally refers to a herzl-esque emancipation from all things jewish”
No, it doesn’t. Among others, Rav Reines, Rav Kook, Rav Herzog, and Rav Soloveitchik would have stridently disagreed with you!
“why dont you guys disassociate?”
You woudn’t notice if we did.
In fact, we did disassociate and the fact you made that comment means you didn’t notice. In the election for the first Knesset, all the religious groups — dati and charedi — ran on one list. (It got 12% of the vote, 16 MKs. Ben Gurion included the religious in the government even though he could have formed a government with majority Knesset support from only the two socialist parties. So much for Ben Gurion being completely anti-religious.) In every Knesset election since, there has been one or more dati leumi parties that have run identified candidates not a part of other parties. The dati program is of course quite a bit different than the charedi program; dati rabbis have never been much into religious coercion for example. Unfortunately the DL movement — against the position of some of the greatest DL rabbis of the time — went “all in” on settlements at the expense of torah education and the movement has never recovered. Rov Soloveitchik z’tz’l in particular was very upset about this towards the end of his life.
Research pharmacy (i.e. being the pharmacist for clinical research studies, usually working in hospitals) is one of the most fascinating areas I can imagine for anyone interested in science. Good luck!
“that the negativity associated with back of the bus shtams froms an american, rosa parks education”
And the fact that so many commenters here don’t get that speaks rather poorly on Torah education. Gedolim have sat next to women on subways in Europe and America for over a century.
“Sure, call out the frum when the non frum need to be called out. Granted, the frum should be held to a higher standard but be honest too.”
Yup, good old double standard.
What “non-frum” has recently assaulted an IDF soldier?
What “non-frum” has recently harassed modestly-dressed frum elementary school girls?
What “non-frum” has recently vandalized a bus with people on it?
What “non-frum” has
“ask a rov.”
Agreed. Hilchot yichud is in some respects more lenient than people think.
“The whole strength of our faith is in mesorah, the faithful transmission of the Torah from Rebbi to talmid.”
Read “Rupture and Reconstruction” by Prof. Chaim Soloveitchik (The Rav’s son) regarding how that has changed today.
“both Rav Kook and Rav JB Soloveichik regarding their inventions of their respective new ideas”
The charedi world is full of “new ideas”:
Rejection of secular education and even (in the case of the Old Yishuv) knowledge of languages. To be on the Sanhedrin you had to know 70 languages.
Kollel for the masses. No precedent ever for that.
Women being responsible for the economic wellbeing of their families, in direct violation of the language of every Ashkenazic ketubah written since the time of the Rishonim.
Halachic decisions being promulgated with no analysis of sources but only with appeals to authority. No precedent for that, either.
“his own stated admission that he broke from his own mesorah to support Zionism”
He realized his own mesorah was wrong, and adjusted appropriately. His father had done so decades earlier, working for Mizrachi in Poland and then for what became Yeshiva University in the US. Rabbi Yisachar Shlomo Teichtal, the author of *Eim HaBanim Semeichah*, realized it too, but unfortunately he did not survive the war.
Today most Religious Zionist rabbis come from either the school of Rav Soloveitchik z’tz’l or Rav Kook z’tz’l. They differed on a lot of things (including the nature of Religious Zionism!) but agreed that a Jewish state in the Land of Israel is a good thing. They met once, in 1935, and Rav Soloveitchik, who wasn’t yet a Zionist (he was on the Moetzes Gedolei HaTorah of Agudath Israel of America) would praise Rav Kook tremendously then and later. It should be noted that both were on excellent terms with many non-Zionist and even anti-Zionist rabbis in America and Eretz Yisrael.
“Many Rabonim in Europe, including, apparently, R’ Kanievsky felt that a wristwatch was still an article of women’s adornment and , as such, was assur als lo yilbosh.”
By that logic, fedora hats should be asur for men because they are beged ishah. In fact, if you go back far enough, so would trousers!
‘His assertion that “shira” is not a girl’s name and the girl should get a new name is one of those piskei halocho that are incomprehensible.’
We had nine women named “Shira” jointly sponsor kiddush last Shabat Shira. There are no men in the community named “Shira”.
“I wonder how many frum jews will meet , visit and vote for Christine Quinn when she visits Borough Park or Williamsburg”
Probably fewer than voted (by landslide margins) for Mike Bloomberg, who ought to be much more problematic than Quinn. While both support same sex marriage, Bloomberg’s ex-wife and current girlfriend aren’t Jewish, and neither are his kids. Quinn OTOH violates absolutely no issur by having a female partner because neither is Jewish.
And as I alluded to earlier about half of American Orthodox Jews voted for Mitt Romney, a polytheist.
“Did you feel the same way in 2001 when several hundred thousand americans showed support for Israel?”
That is a completely different situation. There was no intent, desire, or effect to second-guess the government of Israel on security matters. Today we have Jews from America pressuring Israel from the Left and the Right. If you feel that strongly, make aliyah and give up your US passport.
“Should Americans (let’s go with Jewish Americans) feel allowance to postulate all over the web in regards to Israeli politics? “
If American Jews feel that strongly about things, they should make aliyah and get involved in politics in Israel. And American Jews especially should never second-guess Israeli officials on security matters. They are there; we are not. They have to live with the consequences of any decision; we do not.
“supporting a guy marrying two girls”
Nothing wrong with that for anyone other than an Ashkenazic Jew, and even that is only a thousand year old minhag. It is Christianity that has a problem with it. I find it fascinating how many Christian values have slipped into what people think is normative Jewish opinion.
“unmarried couples publicly living together”
Nothing halachically wrong with a non-Jewish opposite sex couple living together. Prior to matan Torah, men would take a wife in the marketplace and the couple just start living together — no ceremony required.
“allowing a brother and sister to get married”
It is mutar for a non-Jewish man to marry a paternal half-sister.
How about all the religious Jews who support legal polytheism, or even voted for a polytheist in last fall’s Presidential election?
My position: Anybody but Weiner.
“I think its sad that Braun used steroids and that he lied about it. I still think hes a really good player and i still like him.”
He cheated to get an unfair competitive advantage against his fellow players. And then he lied about it. There is no way to atone for this. How many pitchers’ careers did he and his fellow steroid users ruin?
I’m not charedi. But the example of Braun, and the examples of A-Rod (which will push Braun off the front pages), Barry Bonds, Roger Clemens, Steve Garvey, and others’ who were lionized as heroes and proved not to be what they claimed to be shows that the charedi leaders who criticize base popular culture are 100% right. There are many great athletes who are good people. But the hero-worship that they receive is completely contrary to Torah principles. We worship HaShem, not humans, and the humans we admire are those who are exemplars of midot.
I would say this whether the athlete is Jewish or non-Jewish.
“he clearly writes that women must cover their hair. It’s de’Oraisa.”
Machloket poskim whether it is d’oraita or d’rabbanan, and there are a few opinions out there among acharonim that say that it is minhag. (Not the MB or A”H.)
There are several OU member congregations that have mixed dancing at their annual shul dinners.
“the prevailing moral lewdness in society”
British royalty, and in fact European royalty in general, have long been notorious for their promiscuity and hedonism. You can get away with that when the ordinary rules of society don’t apply to you. Abarvenal was 100% correct in his assessment of monarchy.
That said, I wish the new baby all the best; may he be able to avoid harassment by the Paparazzi as well as public scandals.
“I like making fun of people.”
How is being proud of your bad middot consistent with Orthodox teachings?
Actually the US States should become Canadian provinces. We’d get Canada’s much saner gun control laws, much better healthcare system, much lower property taxes, and government funding for Jewish schools.
“And we are not surprised that you feel compelled to defend absolute apikorsus.”
You have failed to show that anything in R’Helfgot’s statement — or anything else he has ever written — that qualifies as any kind of heresy.
Here is what Rabbi Nathaniel Helfgot, the Chairman of YCT’s Bible Department, who is also the Treasurer of the IRF and one of the featured “Chaverim” on the RCA web site, wrote a year ago:
[Ch]azal and some of the Rishonim, belief in the latter is an article of faith, and denial of it potentially shatters the foundation of the entire structure of the binding nature of Torah. There clearly were Rishonim, such as the Sephardic exegete Rabbi Abraham Ibn Ezra and the Ashkenazic pietistic scholar Rabbi Yehuda HaHasid, who maintained that an isolated section of the Torah was post-Mosaic, a gloss from the pen of a subsequent prophet. However, the notion of the entirely composite makeup of the Torah has no precedent in classical Jewish sources, and it is therefore impossible to term such a theological understanding as Orthodox in any meaningful sense.”
*Mikra and Meaning: Studies in Bible and Its Interpretation*, page 40.
I fail to see how this is heresy.
“the AH was a posek while the MB is at times more theoretical.”
The difference is like the difference between Rav Moshe and Rav Soloveitchik. R’Epstein and R’Moshe were poseks; The Chafetz Chaim and The Rav were rosh yeshivas. Rav Henkin z’tz’l also held that we should prefer the Aruch HaShulchan.
“he claims that the Rema is wrong”
The Aruch HaShulchan is far from unique in saying that the Rema should not be followed; for example the Vilna Gaon rules contrary to the Rema on a regular basis.
“he loves the yerushalmi for some reason”
Not clear what the problem with the Yerushalmi is, or why we would not follow it, especially when the psak of the Bavli is unclear. But we clearly do not do regularly follow the Yerushalmi.
“apikorsus according to the Rambam (which is the normal standard used today).”
As Prof. Shapiro has proven, we say that we follow Rambam but we don’t really follow him in practice. How many of you recite “machnesei rachmim” in the Selichot service?
“And your comment about related parties shows that you know nothing about IRS regulations regarding related parties. Your comment is so off base.”
Your comment shows that you don’t know about the operations of either group. I pulled the Form 990s for both YCT and the IRF. The number of Officers, Directors, Trustees, Key Employees, and Highest Compensated Employees they share is zero. One person listed on the IRF list is employed by YCT. That is Rabbi Helfgot, who as I said earlier is also one of the featured rabbis of the Rabbinical Council America’s web site. Note that they are and remain separate institutions.
“There are lots of things in the Ibn Ezra that would be considered Apikorsus if theyr were said today. I’m not sure what your point is.”
Maybe the people who are so judging of others’ alleged apikoros need to be less judgemental. Ibn Ezra’s commentary is in every Mikraot Gedolot.
“Because someone did research and found that indigo dye is easily removed from a material that it has been set into”
The indigo dye molecule binds better to some fabrics to others. It binds very well to wool — I’ve seen techelit strings that are over 20 years old and look brand new. It does not bind as well to cotton, hence fading of blue denim over time. It does not bind well to most synthetic fibers.
Ibn Ezra specifically writes that the version of the Ten Commandments in Sefer Shmot were written by God, and that the version we will read this Shabat are the words of Moses. I guess Ibn Ezra was an apikoros?
” it appears that the IRF Vaad Hagiyur is almost entirely affiliated with YCT”
Who are the members? I could not find them on the IRF web site.
I did notice that the IRF President, Secretary, and Treasurer are all musmachim of YU, not YCT. And the Treasurer is one of the featured rabbis on the RCA web site.
“the leadership overlap is so substantial that they would be considered related to YCT for IRS purposes”
That is nonsense and you should know that. And as a counterexample, Yeshiva University’s high schools and rabbinical school are separate institutions for IRS purposes.
“To be fair, R’ Schachter once said something similar. “
In a shiur about seven years ago I personally heard him say something similar, and also that the final redaction of the Torah took place not at Sinai but at the Plains of Moab.
“I thought that YCT doesn’t do their own Geirus”
Individual YCT musmachim might serve on batei dinim for geirut, but there is no formal “YCT Geirut Board”.
“long term labor contracts, lacking many critical aspects of what in English is referred to as slavery (owners weren’t allowed to kill slaves, prohibition of sex with slaves, etc.).”
That isn’t completely true, as the length of service of an Eved Canaani was indefinite, and sex was at times permitted with them. But if they were freed they became full fledged Jews without kabalat hamitzvot, and they had to be educated in mitzvot and could not be abused. The comparison to the status of Africans in the US could not be more dramatic, as education was prohibited and abuse was routine .
Unfortunately, two of the leading orthodox rabbis in the US at the time of the Civil War did not understand this: Rabbi Bernard Illowy and Rabbi Morris Raphall. Fortunately there was one orthodox rabbi in the US who did: Rabbi Sabato Morais.
When William Seward, Lincoln’s Secretary of State, visited Eretz Yisrael after the war, the rabbis in Jerusalem made a blessing thanking HaShem for making the North victorious in the war, ending the anti-Biblical slavery. There is an article on the Aish HaTorah web site describing this.
May we eradicated the remaining slavery in the world and may it never return.
Found the Steinsaltz Vilna Edition online at seforimcenter for $1138.10. Worth every cent.
Since I didn’t watch the entire trial, nor read the jury instructions, I will refrain from judgement except to remind everyone that reasonable doubt is sufficient for acquittal.
Zimmerman could still face federal civil rights charges and civil litigation.
I love the new Steinsaltz Vilna edition!
“Israeli soldiers guilty of murder?”
Yeah, one doesn’t have to go to the Arab sites to find vitriol directed towards Jews. And on Rosh Chodesh Av.
“R’ Schachter says it’s not Chametz D’oraisa”
It takes a big gedol to pasken against a universally accepted Rashi (at least by Ashkenazim) but I am certainly not one to argue with R’Schachter!
“According to R’ Schachter and many others, gluten-free oat Matzah is not Halachically bread (or Matzah) and one cannot make Hamotzi and Al Achilas Matzah on it.”
If the gluten free oat matzah isn’t bread or matzah, then oats are not one of the five grains and we can eat oatmeal on Pesach!
“you are actually advocating that people who oppose the Israeli government should make aliah?”
If they are Jewish, yes! It is a mitzvah!!!
“if you’re not appreciative of the Israeli military etc. move to chu”l?”
All Jews should have hakarat hatov for an army that protects five million Jews. Whether it should change some of its policies is an unrelated issue.
Rambam translations in the preceding comments were by Rabbi Eliyahu Touger; you can find them along with the Hebrew original at chabad dot org.
More from Rambam, Mishneh Torah 3:8.
‘There are three individuals who are considered as one “who denies the Torah”:
a) one who says Torah, even one verse or one word, is not from God. If he says: “Moses made these statements independently,” he is denying the Torah.
b) one who denies the Torah’s interpretation, the oral law, or disputes [the authority of] its spokesmen as did Tzadok and Beitus.
c) one who says that though the Torah came from God, the Creator has replaced one mitzvah with another one and nullified the original Torah, like the Arabs [and the Christians].’
There are actually passages in Chazal and some other rishonim that violate the strict meaning of (a). One would have to make a big stretch to interpret (b) as referring to someone who question’s a non-halachic teaching of Chazal as Rambam himself introduced non-literal interpretations that don’t coincide with those of Chazal, and his son Rabbi Avraham explicitly permits non-literal interpretations. (c) is clearly directed towards Muslims and Christians.
Rambam, Mishneh Torah 3:7.
“Five individuals are described as Minim:
a) one who says there is no God nor ruler of the world;
b) one who accepts the concept of a ruler, but maintains that there are two or more;
c) one who accepts that there is one Master [of the world], but maintains that He has a body or form;
d) one who maintains that He was not the sole First Being and Creator of all existence;
e) one who serves a star, constellation, or other entity so that it will serve as an intermediary between him and the eternal Lord.”
Nothing about disputing Chazal here, either. (b), (c), (d), and possibly (e) appear to refer to Christians.
Rambam, Mishneh Torah 3:8:
“Three individuals are described as Epicursim:
a) one who denies the existence of prophecy and maintains that there is no knowledge communicated from God to the hearts of men;
b) one who disputes the prophecy of Moses, our teacher;’
c) one who maintains that the Creator is not aware of the deeds of men.”
Nothing about disputing Chazal there.
Why shave?
Baruch HaShem that an anti-Israel protest in Europe by Jews has been ignored! It was bad enough that there was such a protest in New York, a place where most of the population likes Jews, but in Europe??? This is asking for trouble for the hundreds of thousands of Jews who still live in Europe!!!
If you oppose the Israeli government, make aliyah and protest THERE!
“FDR deliberately hurt Jews by restricting their immigration to nearly zero “
That wasn’t his doing. The Republican Congress and President in 1924 enacted that restriction and FDR had no power to change the law.
“In June 1939, FDR refused to save 900 Jews aboard the ship St. Louis.”
He had no legal authority to admit anyone on the ship, and probably would have been impeached had he done so. His underlings, however, desparately worked to find other places where they could go, and they did make it to places other than Germany. Many survived the Shoah.
“FDR repeatedly endorsed the Holocaust”
That is a slanderous lie. I challenge you to find a single statement or writing in which FDR or any American elected official endorsed the murder of millions of Jews.
“would not permit bombing of deportation railways or crematoria at the camps even when it could have saved hundreds of thousands of lives”
That wasn’t FDR’s decision to make. He didn’t interfere with the generals on the scene. If you want to blame anyone for that decision, blame Eisenhower, who was the Supreme Commander in Europe and had full authority to bomb anything he wanted. (Eisenhower would prove incredibly hostile to Israel in 1956.)
“FDR delayed the freeing of prison camps in the Netherlands as long as possible”
Wrong again. The Netherlands was liberated by Canadian troops, not Americans. They avoided fighting in much of the country in order to avoid civilian casualties; much of the Netherlands was at the time one of the most densely populated places in the world.
“By the act of 1924, we are permitted to admit approximately 150,000 immigrants each year.”
That is a lie. There was no limit to the number of immigrants allowed from the Western Hemisphere. If a Jew could somehow make it to a Western Hemisphere country, and spend a year there, he/she could then come to the US freely. Unfortunately few Jews took up the offers of refuge made by Haiti and the Dominican Republic. (I do know someone whose grandfather spent a year in Haiti.) Yet most Jews from Germany who wanted to get out did get out by 1939, as Germany had a relatively high limit — over 50,000 per year, more than any non-Western Hemisphere country.
The problem was the quotas for Eastern Europe. Poland’s annual quota was 5,982. Russia’s was 2,248. Hungary’s was 473. Lithuania’s was 344. Yugoslavia’s was 671. Romania’s was 603. And that was for ALL immigrants from those countries, not just Jews. FDR had no power to admit anyone over the limit.
Jewish nativists should think about when they support immigration restrictions.