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If masks were effective, there should be no coronavirus in Japan where they routinely mask. However, that’s not the case–cases have been rising steadily.
Again, it’s the same tired argument–masks MUST be somewhat effective. But what if they’re not? Again, I will repeat–there is a dearth of science, which makes the practice highly experimental. And what if there is collateral damage by masking the entire population? My friend has a baby who was born prematurely and has spent the last six months in the NICU. This baby has never seen a human face. This is scary. People, please wake up–the powers that be want to convince you that it makes sense to keep on wearing masks–until when? When does the madness stop? When all viruses are eliminated from this world?
I will end with a quote from Hitler yemach shmo:
What luck for rulers that men do not think.
Kol tuv, I will leave this discussion.A smaller chance of getting an infection? Maybe, maybe not. Again, it’s simply not supported by science. (I refer you back to some of my earlier comments about the possibility of masks becoming reservoirs of viral material and aiding in infection via surfaces.)
When there’s really good science showing that the benefit of wearing a mask outweighs the risk, I will voluntarily put one on. Until that time, as long as I’m not exhibiting symptoms (in which case I will stay home), I will feel free to continue the normal human interactions that are so vital to our emotional and mental health.
So Meno, if only half of the droplets of my cough get on you, does that mean that you only get half of a covid infection?
But the bottom line is that the evidence is far from conclusive that mask wearing in the general population has any effect on the spread of the virus. And without strong evidence, policies can’t be forced on other people. So going back to the original post, this is just another machlokes that prevents us from reaching our spiritual potential. If we can agree to disagree, it would be far healthier for everyone.I saw this article in the Times but could not believe that this was the article being referred to since it proves the point that masks CANNOT work to stop a virus. If only a percentage of the particles are being trapped by the fibers, but not all, that would be enough to infect another person. Remember, this is a highly contagious disease, which means that even one virus-containing droplet would be enough. (If it’s not that contagious, we certainly don’t need masks.) Then, the argument that the other person’s mask will serve as further protection is completely invalid, when you remember that as untrained lay people we all touch our masks, our faces, our eyes–so any viral material on the next person’s mask is actually a vector for germ spreading.
But the bottom line is that it’s all very hypothetical–what we do not have is evidence that masking the entire population, with the negative effects that they have (for example, see the article “Mask Fatigue Hits America: Workers Cite Headaches, Anxiety” and the journal article “Headaches and the N95 face-mask amongst healthcare providers”) has any real benefit in preventing the virus from spreading. So to go around telling people “it’s pikuach nefesh, how could you not wear a mask” is just wrong. Wearing a mask has not been proven to save even one life. (If someone has such proof, please let me know.)
The fact that all the departments of health etc etc are all backing the wearing of masks is really not relevant, as that’s what happens in the current climate of scientific censorship–the voice of industry is very powerful and that’s what you’re going to hear over and over. Propaganda is a very powerful tool–repeat something enough times and it becomes true.And remember this from the great Fauci himself: When you’re in the middle of an outbreak, wearing a mask might make you feel better and it might even stop a droplet but it doesn’t provide the perfect protection people think it does and might even have unintended consequences because people touch their masks, fiddle with their masks..
He then lamely retracted and said, oh yeah, that was because we didn’t have enough masks–so he admits to being a liar, except as with all liars, you can’t really trust them on when they’re lying.If you feel protected by a mask, by all means, wear one. Just remember to take “breathing breaks” (?!?–I thought we are getting enough oxygen) and stay away from those who choose not to wear one if you’re nervous. But don’t tell me to do something that makes me feel anxious and gasping for breath when there is no strong evidence backing you.
I have researched the post-SARS articles and none of them show that healthy people in a non-hospital environment should be wearing masks. I could not find the NY Times article you referenced but I think it’s fair to say that the Times is not an unbiased party here, so let’s see real evidence, not rhetoric.
As for operating rooms not being oxygenated, please check your facts. Operating rooms are in fact fire hazards because of the extra oxygen.
I don’t know how anyone in their right mind could say that re-breathing CO2 is not an issue. Remember, mask wearing is very political.
Of course we don’t want numbers to go up, and of course we are all davening for the cholim, but that doesn’t mean that masks are effective or healthy for the wearer. And as for the long-term wearing of masks for children–it’s plain and simple child abuse. And that’s not okay for the vague notion of “it’s probably better than nothing.”SRivka makes some very good points. This is the way the public health propaganda works–they convince everyone that you need to do something to protect OTHERS, and then anyone who doesn’t want to comply is selfish. It’s brilliant, really. The bottom line is that the mountains of evidence that everyone talks about don’t exist, that masks being common sense is very arguable (what if I think common sense is that you shouldn’t be re-breathing your carbon dioxide?), and the tired argument that doctors use it in hospitals fails when you understand that doctors have to receive training on how to properly use their masks, and that operating rooms are oxygenated to provide extra oxygen for those wearing masks for prolonged periods of time.
A religious exemption does not have to be signed off by your shul rabbi; it has to be based on sincere personal religious beliefs. If someone feels that the risks of vaccination outweigh the benefits, then that person would have a real halachic issue putting his healthy children at risk for the theoretical benefit of the klal.
No the YWN called them murderers. The kol koreh is quoting the shulchan aruch, and then based on this shulchan aruch is saying that people should vaccinate. Additionally, this kol koreh was issued in Jerusalem where the measles has reached more of an epidemic status (although not the halachic status of mageifa. ) This is a halachic issue in which there are different opinions. You ask your rabbi, I’ll ask mine. Unfortunately, I don’t believe you can handle that.
Also–to quote from the CDC on how aluminum is safe is akin to asking the fox if it’s okay to leave the henhouse open–the CDC sells 4 billion dollars worth of vaccines each year and is HEAVILY invested in the vaccine program–at any rate, they’re not the ones changing the diapers of the autistic children. Nor are they the ones who have to deal with the plethora of neurological issues plaguing our community. But let’s pull apart the CDC’s deceptive statement:
“Adjuvants have been used safely in vaccines for decades.”
Notice how this statement makes the claim that because they’ve been used for decades, they must be safe. HRT’s were also used for decases, as was DES–both with devastating consequences only found out much later when randomized constrolled trials were done, in the case of HRT’s, and when very strange cancers arose in the case of DES (and by the way, the DES tragedy was discovered by a discerning doctor who happened to ask the right questions, not the FDA).
Next highly deceptive statement:
“In all cases, vaccines containing adjuvants are tested for safety and effectiveness in clinical trials before they are licensed for use in the United States, and they are continuously monitored by CDC and FDA once they are approved.”
Notice that the CDC did not say that “adjuvants” have been tested for safety, only the “vaccines containing adjuvants.” A perfect example of this would be Gardasil–it was tested against a placebo containing the aluminum adjuvant! How then is it possible to find adverse effects of the adjuvant itself?
I recommend that you start looking at some of the recent studies (past ten years) that the CDC doesn’t know what to do about–studies by Schoenfeld, Exley, Shaw, Gherardi, and others.
Silly Health: of course it wasn’t a double blind study, it was an observational study done after the fact, sifting through data. It would be unethical to do a double blind study, because then the unvaccinated children would be unprotected. (But what if the vaccines are causing problems…)
Health: Again chutzpah–who are “these people” anyway? Your neighbors, friends, and other ehrliche people in the community. And unfortunately, Doctor Roberts is in the same category as the CDC, AAP, and others as he is a nogea bedavar, having made his billions in the pharmaceutical industry. There is BIG money in vaccines, let the buyer beware.
Health: It’s a pretty big chutzpah to call someone a liar without checking the facts. The journal is Pharmacological Research and the title of the article is “Cognition and behavior in sheep repetitively inoculated with aluminum adjuvant-containing vaccines or aluminum adjuvant only”. Unfortunately, it is the people who attack others without bothering to check the facts who are guilty of “herd mentality”.
About the drug companies–you just have to do a bit of research to find out that vaccines are the fastest growing segment of the US pharmaceutical industry. Some of the recent vaccines to emerge have been blockbusters–making over half a billion dollars a year (Gardasil, Prevnar), so it is really foolish to think that they have our best interests in mind–they are a profit-making business like any other. And unlike common perception, there is plenty of evidence emerging about the lack of safety of vaccines. This is a link to a study that just came out linking aluminum in vaccines to bizarre behavior in sheep. link removed And then just follow links to similar articles (all in scholarly journals) and you may get a real education. To quote the highly prestigious Dr. Marcia Angell, former editor-in-chief of the NEJM (New England Journal of Medicine):
“It is simply no longer possible to believe much of the clinical research that is published, or to rely on the judgment of trusted physicians or authoritative medical guidelines. I take no pleasure in this conclusion, which I reached slowly and reluctantly over my two decades as an editor of The New England Journal of Medicine.”