nishtdayngesheft, thanks Ill try your leads.

What most disturbing is that they pretend to be helping young Jews get educations and are probably getting funding from Federation type organizations.

Behind the scenes, theyre virulently anti-religion and are coaxing members to leave Judaism and paint religion and religious people as backward and hindering personal growth and accomplishemt in life. Its unbelievable! They help with one hand and throw mud and destroy with another.

Zees,“Why’d you want to open up people’s wounds again?”

Because as painful as memories are, they cant be anywhere as painful as the fresh open wounds of a current situation.

Sometimes we learn from others how they’ve coped, and the others who shared how they’ve coped get a huge Mitzvah.

EzratHashem, Too bad we don’t have a way to speak privately.

I’d love that. I emailed the admin and I havent heard back. I would really benefit from speaking to someone enduring similar pain.

Health, this adult child thinks theyre smarter than all the therapists. Aint gonna happen.

Ezrat, Im being told clearly by this child what they need- $$$. Do I ever say no? Its actually advantageous for them to go OTD because everyone advises parents to give everything they can and do everything they can (spoil) to make the child happy, so the OTD person has it better than ever- more freedom and more money, etc.

Update to “Young adult chooses to have nothing to do with parents, but might, down the line, have some contact with siblings”:

Young adult lives at home but says theyre no longer frum, they dont believe, theyre culturally religious and does their own thing outside of the house. This young adult used to be the frummest in the family and class (role model type).

What is the most effective approach here? Has anyone had a similar situation?

How do you love a child who you feel is stabbing you and the ideals you and past generations held dear in the heart?

tbt, telling a doubting intellectual person that Jews exist, despite not having a country of their own, because G-d is protecting them, isnt sufficient proof. How about American Indians?

My teineh is that we have many Kiruv experts, but we dont have people who are good at answering and discussing belief with those who want to give up Frumkeit and are willing to meet with them personally. The back and forth debate is crucial. This cant be accomplished with books. Ive been told that to save a Jewish Neshama youre allowed to be Mechalel Shabbos.

There exists a huge culture (intellectuals, not failures) of those who left Frumkeit and they are always looking to recruit others and tell them how happy they’ll be. If we dont plan accordingly, and do the best we can, it’s not good. If we are Maaminim, our job is to do more to combat these individuals. Throwing up our hands and blaming isnt what Hashem wants of us. I dont think so.

Ezrat, but is your young adult academically gifted?

Very academically gifted! Yours as well?

observanteen, But there’s a difference between asking because you want to understand what you believe and to ask to “prove” that it’s nonsense.

Arent there people who ask to “prove” that it’s nonsense” and somewhere along the way, they start believing and observing?

Why be judgemental? Most of us are not prophets.

MOC, If your guy thinks he’s smarter than rambam, rashi, r’ Yonoson Eibeshutz, the Vilna Gaon and innumerous other incredibly smart people, he has a lack of midos. He should be able to realize that if he thinks differently than so many of those who are older and smarter than him, it’s probably (at least possibly) his problem and he has to look for a solution, or cure. In my experience, chances are his problem is anxiety.

Gimme a break. You think the Pope and most leaders of different faiths, or atheists, or agnostics, are slow or idiots, suffering from anxiety or have bad “Midos”? LOL

Can we agree that if those you mentioned above had grown up in non-Jewish homes, most would have kept the religion practiced in their home? There are Gerim, but there are equal amounts of those who choose to leave Orthodox Judaism, or dont actively practice it, and are by no means slow or suffering from anxiety, etc.

Unfortunately, too much of today’s youth would rather not follow rules and prefer moving towards immediate pleasure and far away from pain (hardship and responsibility). Unless they clearly see that Judaism makes sense, and is valid, with no doubts, its a lost cause. Unless we are armed with solutions, we have little or no chance that they’ll stay observant, once they’re independent adults.

yid.period, I’m sorry to say, it may just have to wait until they are a bit older

In the meantime, dangerous steps can be taken. No way!

Also, if there are people who can “prove” that Hashem exists and that we are His chosen people, because we follow the Torah, and we’re not doing what we do, by rote, to satisfy our parents and follow our ancestors, and its not simply a matter of upbringing, and being inculcated since birth that the Torah way is the better way, why is it so difficult for us to come up with people who easily and happily offer to prove it? This is somehow unsettling, even to me, a frum adult.

I agree with tbt and pba, definitely, life is complex, problems lead to other problems. Sometimes this happens with personality types who despise rules, they find a reason to justify not keeping rules that dont lead to immediate pleasure.

I spent Shabbos reading some books on turning people around and seems there are people who are especially good at it.

yunger, which song are you refering to? This young adult loves some of AR’s songs.

aries- We NEVER ever give up on our children. ???

What about the hundreds of kids who get thrown out of schools yearly with schools knowing that they’ll be lost forever? Whats the solution for the schools when its between keeping kids in school who are a bad influences, and throwing these kids to the dogs?

But, if life’s totally EMPTY he might come back

MOC.

The problem is, the person wasnt successful socially in the frum community and now feels more accepted by new friends.

Young twenties, intellectual type, huge curious reader (about different religions)….