Forum Replies Created
-
Posts
-
what does post tax mean? Do you count earned income child tax credits which means a famiy receives money?
Does it count HUD, SNAP, CHS & WIC medicad?
What about parsonage?
What if a rebbe gets free tutions (or a girls teacher)SNAP = 15K a month
HUD = 30K a month
Earned income =7500
WIC = 5000
CHS = 10K
Medciad gain vs private employee paid insurnace =7500 (using a low numner)
Total : =75kKI left out free tution for rebbaim
I have a high suspicion that these calculations won’t be included. What ends up happening is that the accountant who earns say 100K net income, (after taxes) but not receiving any programs. He is capped at 20% = $20K Now lets say you have a “low income earner” . He earns only 75K, he is capped now at $15K. But after his govt programs he really earns close to 150K and should pay more than the accounant at 30K.
Hereby lies your issue unless they are ready to get into the guts. You can’t view income like the govt does
@ sechel83
Again litfaks believe in a rebbe too. And exactly how you describe Chabad. I will say though that just because someone is crowned Reba because his father was doesn’t make him Reba. The idea that it’s an inheritance doesn’t stem for chasdim. Historically it went to the most esteemed student and not yerusha. Some of the rebas today are clowns and certainally not the most ehrlicha chasdim. P.S. sadly in litfish a circles it starting to become this way too. Although if you totally can’t strong together a shtickel Torah on the Gemara and say a shuir it’s still impossible to be a rosh yeshiva .Depends what the vote and issue is. Sometimes it pertains to local issues and local askanim or rav knows better than me. Sometimes its more of a political viewpoint like who should be president etc and nobody really knows
What came first? The Rema & Minhag ashkenaz. Litfaks started slighlty after chasdim under the GRA (unless you say that the Besht wasn’t really the same as the current chsdisha movement which started more under he Magid)
@DaMoshe
If you study history you will see that the idea of Das torah and that you must follow your rebbe without disputing him (like chasdim) is a new thing. In the big yeshivas a rebbe taught them torah but they were not mevtal to the rebbe. Research what it was like in Telz, Slabodka, Volozhin etc. Even in the Mir. The litfisha view of a rebbe was limited to just being someone who you learned torah by and not that you were mevatl to him. The whole das torah movement started by R Chaim Ozer but even then it wasn’t like today. Most were independent thinkers. (The exception was the close talmidum of R Chaim maybe). Mnay old rosh yeshivas even held that they need to keep distance and not get too warm with talmidim. If you never study history this will be hard to believe. the fact that you feel attached to R Bender shlita is because litfisha today aren’t what they used to be. its a great thing but its not old school litfaks. Re your point about chasdim not even meeting a rebbe yet follwoing his every word, I don’t see why The tzadfik R chaim Kaneivsky zl was so different. Yes I was zocheh once or twice to get a bracha vahatzlacha from him but I really never saw him yet follow his every word like a reba. R chaim was part of the “litfisha” chasdis” and my reba.@akuperma
You really believe that Hitler YMS would have stuck to his terms of the deal under a conditional surrender? He broke every deal before that including with Russia.. Cmon I have a bridge to sell you if even think that any “conditional deal” would have helped. It only would have extended the war and bloodshed. The last few communities that the rasha missed he would have reached, And the condztions offered included Germany still retaining half of Europe.Japan completely capitulated and I am not sure where you got that anything was conditional.
Re Hamas, you miss the point and in a way they are worse than Germany. Germany was a refined cultured country that got a craz (obviously hashem wanted that but beztem they were refined normal people) Palestianins are influcned by a cult and drink the kool aid. They can’t behave if they wanted to,You think you will disram hamas as long as they are still at all intact? You think hamas will ever let someone “not sponsoring” terror to run the country? They will kill him in a second. Yes Hamas is a pain in the tuchus but they other “peaceful” countries still enable them. Look at Qatar & Turkey. Egypt has this secret pact that Hamas could do whatever they want including smuggling stuff as long as nothing is out in the open within Egypt territory. Don’t forget Egypt is half muslim brotherhood= Hamas. You think you can trust anyone to disarm Hamas? Frankly its a bit naive.
@sechel83, So it sounds like we agree that litfaks today in many ways are chasdish.
I also think your defintion of chasidish is very narrow based (Mostly the chabad based) Your defintion that its about the mindset , “penemis Hatorah” etc. and that its almost an intellectual mindset approach is too narrow. Being chasdish is also about a feel for judaism vs doing this robotically because it says in the torah. That means a few things. Firtsly, doing a mitzvah with a fire and happyiness. Whether its davening or lighting a menora or shaking luluav. We don’t just light a m enora and go back to the germara. We dance and farbriegan plus learn a little by the menora. Thats not so much an intellectual aspect rather its just a physcal connection where you ” enjoy” the mitzva because its part of our life and isn’t just a book a of codes. Its also about kedusha and being extra tznuis, because its not just a book of codes rather its about living for something higher we strive to observe more than just the halcha. The same is about kashrus. Pure halacha perhaps allows cholov stam. But we can do better and be more stringent. Many chasdim only ate meat from their shochet or ruv. Again they live for a higher being and its a way of life vs just a book of rules lehavdil. All this, is to say its more than just an intllectual exercise. Perhaps the earlier seforim and chabad focus on that but once you get to rebas of 150 years ago like the Tsanzer ruv or Belza it;s focus isn’t about the deep thinking rather its more about a way of life that’s more inetrnalized.
@sechel83,
Litfaks these days are more connected to a rebbe than chasdim. Dad Torah and having a rebbe is a crucial part of litfaks today . It wasn’t that way 100 years ago.The chumros that litfaks do today are not anymore just based on fear or sachar rather it’s now because of a deeper inner love of Hashem.
And again litfaks are centered today on being connected with a rebbe or as they call a rosh yeshiva. And so again the litfaks are more chasidish than chasdim
@sechel83
Your point about all chasdism vs litfaks is very nice in philosophy. In the reality of 2024 many chasdim just do it out of fear and the chumras come first. Leaving out chabad but look at some of the other sects and the fear factor instilled in it. Meanwhile, many litfaks today (have lots of ehlricha chadsdim mingled in) already observe chumros bec of love of hashem or as you say as a result. They sing and daven long too. This line has blurred and one can probably say litfaks today are more chasdish. (For example when chasdim only observe ceratin chumors bec they are bullied into it, is that a “result of love for hashem? I think even its leaders will argue that they need to observe the chumaros and then they will love hashem like the chazon ish. (I won’t say which chasidus bullies but we know it exists)Re Kedusha, its defintley the approach of Toldas Aron as per the shomieri emunim to yell about it. I believe most of Hungarian jewry does. Almost every chasdisha rav yells about it by his drashas in 2024. In general the derech of hungrain chasdim were to publcially speak and yell about it. I know chabad doesn’t but others do. And in 2024 it has grown to every chasdis aside for maybe chabad. Please don’t start quoting old chasdisha sefarim as thats an endless debate. You’ll find one way but there are tins the other way. Just look around at most chasdim today and its a fact they all preach about it. I don’t know of screaming about it causes people to be nechashal more. But we all do see that Chabad today in 2024 most defintley has plenty of tznuis and kedusha issues. You can’t deny that. Thus, the idea that its approach is more the right path isn’t convincing.
Lastly, while my keep point remains that chasdism and litfaks switched roles almost, Ill also say there is a 3rd dynamic. People who abuse the chasdic view you illustrate. The view that you just need to love hashem and everything else will come. As someone pointed out thats a feel good thing and it took off like fire in certain new movements. It only works if while thanking hashem you really seek to live a life of what hashem wants of us. Not a life of fluxury and ostentatiousness but if i say I love Hashem all is good.
Is this connected to the Baltimore scholarship initiative where you need to fill out a detailed form of your finances?
I love that idea too. My only crtique is that I think that form leaves out alot. You can’t look at “gross income” in the same way the govt would. You need to look at “net income”. If someone is for example a rebbe and they get free tuition for their boys (or vice versa a teacher in girls school) , plus parsonage and they then receive HUD, WIC, SNAP, Medicad, earned income credits etc. Meanwhile a struggling accountant earning double the rebbe salary on a gross level doesn’t receive those benefits , the accountant is mathematically poorer. To be clear, this is only intended to provide a mathematical view of affordability and not to get into discussions of rebbe salary.You are describing one nitch of chasdus called chabad. I hate to say this but Chabad isn’t the only chasidsha group nor does it have a right to claim that only its way is the true way. There are many ways to serve hashem including many chasdisha ways. The big broad chasdisha groups whether its belz, satmar, Ger or chabad all believed that the way to serve hashem with more of a feeling and heart while Litfaks were more focused on just observing whats strictly required by the torah. That means that things like davening we only to obeserve the halcha part but who says its needs to be with a bren and fire or that everything needs a minyan. When it comes to kedusha thats not anyhwere in the torah so who says we need to do more. Most chasdim aside for chabad actually do very much scream about shmiras enyiam (look at the shomieri emunim’s sefer tahros kakodesh) and thats a big thing. Yes that is a chasdisha thing and you have no right to say it isn’t because its not chabad’s thing. The idea of kedusha is, that nowehere in the torah does it explicltiy outline the exact limits. But if one lives for a deeper meaning and wants to do it for hashem kedusha is a focus. Its 100% a chasdisha concept that must be spoken about. Same is true about kashrus where chasdim have more chumras bec even tough techincally maybe chalov stam is permitted we live to a higher standard than just what the torah allowed.
Yes chabad differs in that its about training your mind while other chasdim believe its about being extra observant than just the torah but chasdis is living for more then the torah and a code of laws. Once again sorry but chabad is just one of many chasdism.
This is all leads to my point, the old school litfak is almost non existent aside for the “frum Modern orthdox black hats who still kind of subscribe to that.
@ CTLAWYER,
To be completely transparent I agree that Trump is guilty. But I don’t get your title labelled “34 counts”. Morally this concept that from one minor sin a person can violate so many crimes just because you found some written law, is just absurd. I get that without each law what’s the sin. But the fact that you can twist 34 laws into one little crime is just a perversion of justice. At the end of the day it’s one count. Did he sin or not? And especially to punish him for each count? It seems so banana republic like.it’s one masa averio.
I’ll also throw in another mockery of our wonderful justice system. We love to tout that hey he was convicted by a jury of his peers who were selected by both sides. But here is the thing, the judge still has all the leeway as to what the jury is allowed to listen to and what they must disregard. The judge can narrow it down so thin that the jury basically most convict because they just discard everything the defence said. (I am exaggerating but bringing out a point) If the judge is bias your case os doomed. A judge can indeed decide your fate. Our system isn’t moral and isn’t decided by a jury.
Umm Litfaks mesora is the same as chasdim. It stems from the GRA . Its about the same time as the Besht
Re the feel good aspect , one can argue that litfaks have also a feel good intellectual argument where its all about torahNow the real mesora is Yekkis and ashkenzai jews. Not litfaks. That means doing things like the Rema. And yes saying yotzer on YT etc.
Now we need to fast forward to todays society where you have a point. Chasdim aren’t suppose to be just a feel good thing. Its supposed to be about really observing extra Keddusha (extra tznuis) davening for long even in the weekdays in a hurry etc. Meanwhile litfaks historically, Litfaks only cared about torah and halchaha but not tefila or kedusha.
Fast foward to today, unfortunately chasdim are being abused as about feeling good and partying at R Shayla while fressing meat. It became about olem hazah . Tznuis has gone down too. And we have formally non chasdim part of newly made fake chasdish movements that think thats what’s important about life. meanwhile Litfaks are now the leaders on kedusha, davening long and being ehlrich. So technically in 2024 you are correct alot of being chasdish is fake
An angle not discussed on this thread, is the proliferation of various daf yomi shuirm out there on the APP. Many people who wouldn’t learn otherwise are now learning thanks to these apps. Without Daf yomi this wouldn’t be possible on this scale. To be honest, there is a downside too. Certain people who would learn otherwise now use this as a crutch. Some of these shiruim are here to make it cool but lack the full substance that someone should have when learning gemara. The fact that its a fad and a party does lack in the shimo a bit. But on the other hand its what draws people.
My key point is, that without daf yomi these shuirum wouldn’t happen and many wouldn’t learn
The Satmar Reba z’l was very holy and his shita is definitely highly respected. However, he was a das yachid and extreme. One almost wonders if he said many things simply so that the masses don’t get caught up with the fervor of the moment. In those days, unlike today it was very in style even among charedim to become or support zionism, He had to hammer in the point how bad it is and how we must disconnect. In reality its alot more muted. In reality in many ways its a bracha for all jews.
Most other gedolim did not hold like the Satmar reba.
Re 1948, I never heard that the zionists had a choice not to fight. That’s revisionist history. Once they UN passed a resolution we were attacked. Perhaps you want to argue that who asked the tzionim to push that resolution? That’s easy for you to say now in 2024. In 1947 noone wanted the jews even after the holocuast including the USA. Europe was becoming communist and closing the iron curtain. What was our choices?
Re 1967: Yes technically Israel attacked first. But everyone in their right mind knew Israel was on the brink. Had they not attacked first 5 countries would have attacked us. Yes the fight started over the Suez canal and the satmar reba said who asked Israel to pick a fight over a water channel. But cmon without that cannel Israel can’t function. And it would have just pushed Egypt to do more The reba says the success of the 6 day war was masa soton. But almost every other gadol said it was nissim.
As the tzadik R wolfson shlita says, in 1948 it was an eis ratzzon for moshaich. Instead hashem gave us some broken shards (shiveri kelim) to hold onto after all the tzaras we went through in the form of a state of Israel.
Its easy to be a hothead in 2024 but before you are a big talker research your facts and imagine you lived then
what are you making up? alternative facts? The war of independence was fought because Israel was attacked. It was self defense. This is pure lies feed to you.
“apologetics about the oaths and all the rest.” no no. Its not” apologetics “. Its the true halacha. Rabbi Hirsch’s view was extreme and not accepted. You take it as a given that we must abide by 3 oaths and then anyone who disagrees is just trying to be “apologetics “. It was never our mesora or halcha to pasekn like aggadata and that gemara is unclear. This is toras emes. Not torah bent to use for your anti zionist rhetoric..The zionists rallied the USA in the 1920’s to have visa quotas? what kind of lies do you spew. The zionists had nothing to do with USA policy about immigration. In fact the rasha Stephen Weiss who was FDR advisor was anti zionists. (As R yeruchim z’l gave a shmuxz in the Mir, it was pure sodom.)
Its very in style to be a hot head today and being anti zionist is very “in”. But you lack facts and make things up. Just like you can’t tell me the heter for NK to attend protests with women in colleges? Pritzus gevald. What happened to tznius?
@ujm,
You forgot that in 1948, America did not let jews leave eastern Europe. We had tough quotas. in 1956, they let in some Hungarians. Many in the early years after the war including my family were not allowed into the USA. Hah they not had Israel, many would have died in Russia under stalin and Kruscheif Yimach shimo. I don’t know where you get your facts in saying that Jews under Stalin were better off than in Israel. Its just so false on every level. It talks to the insanity of modern day society where hyper beliefs whether its the far right or far left (trump crazies vs antifa) or its free Palestine (and nakba) aka antii “evil zionists” or yes the other extreme that we have to conquer every inch and never compromise, Study your facts.
PS if you mean that jews are now safer in Russia / Putin vs Israel that may be true. But historically its untrue
You are correct in saying that Israel is still golus. and that there is no kohci vatzim yadi altough there are open nissim with israel as many gedolim stated after the 6 day war.HaKatan
I love how you quote R Chaim Volzhin. Many zioniosts came out of the yeshiva . the chovai tzion movment under the netziv happened there too. I urge you to speak to older jews around after the holocaust. For some reason that don;t generally feel the same about the medina. Ask yourself why not? They are wiser than you. The answer is because they saw the alternatives . They grew up knowing what its like to not be wanted by anyone. Its easy to judge now.@HaKatan
Forgive me for saying this but you have revisionist history. you take the classic millennial approach similar lehvadil to the free Palestine folks who know noting but whats feed to them at the moment. Today its very in style be Satmar or Brisk. But the truth is that 75 years ago those were extreme right positions and not mainstream of klal yisroel . They were huge gedolim and holy jews. I will not knock these tzadkim in any manner. But there were the “das Yachid”. Even the way you knock my views as “zioniat propoganda ” as if I am a tzioni when i am not and have never followed them is just kind of bniave 2024 talk without studying the facts. Yes sure you have R Elchanon too, but thats about it.Let get the chafetz chaim and the fake news and lies that you repeat over form brisk without verifying. The FACT is that in 1923 at the aguda convention the Chafetz chaim walked out as a protest because someone came to bashmutz R kook. He refused to go back in for the rest of the convention despite schlepping there as an older man already. Every older yeruhslami knows that the Chafetz chaim tried to come to EY. One of his big goals was to visit R kook and make peace between him and R Sonnefled z’l. Its well known that the kanoim say its beshert that he didn’t make it because if the C chaim made it to EY there would be no kanoim left. The mekublaim said that had the C chaim came he would have made shalom and moshiach would have come. R Kook, shver, the aderes helped the Chaim write his sefer about yidden drafted in the army. After the aderes was niter the C chaim asked R kook to help him. So don’t sell me buba masses about the C chaim and R kook. These are facts.
(Side note, an older yershlaumi yid told me that at his fathers chasna both R kook and R yosef chaim sat together and were shmuzing. This is despite his alleged cherem. I don;t think he is lying about his own fathers wedding)Re R Kook and a “war”, not a single war in Israel was made by choice., You make it sound like oh we went out to capture. Every war Israel ever fought was forced upon us. Anyone would permit that.
Let me also say that many mnay gedolim held of a state whether its Rizyhner rebas, R ytizchok elchnanon, the dvar avraham and even later on people like the rav of yeshulaim who wrote a famous sefer (forgot his name now). R hsraga feivel medleovitch made a bracha when the medina was founded. Punvitcha Rav said hallel with an israeli flag. At the punivitch chanukas hbayis in 1953, all zionist leaders were invited and one even spoke. Many mnay gedollim were preseent too. I can list so many more gedolim who held of a state. But thats beside the point. tTe overwhelming majority held once its here, we need need to support it and that the good outweighs the bad.
Re the 3 shavous, again stamar and Brisk were a das yachid. When he took on the R Hirsch zl shita of shalosh shavous it was a huge chiddish. There are many ways to answer that such as that its agaddata, its only when goyim keep it too etc. (Its also funny that in the USA Stamar isn’t scared to take land from the state of NY. But OK.)
Re Todays zionists, again you have no clue what kind of rasha Ben Gurion was, looking to kidnap jewish kids just to shmad them. He hated anyone frum. Today the fight is simply that frum people fight and share the burden. Yes its a fair arguemnt to say that we learn torah and that we can’t share a burden with secular people. But lets not get carried away and call that shmad.
All big talkers influenced by todays zealot kanyous in style brands. After the war noone else wanted us and Israel was the place to go. Speak to your grandparents who were survivors. notice they almost all were pro zionisim. They went through ghenim and understood. Its easy to sit in the USA and be a hot head. It comes from immaturity just like the naïve ceasefire protestors. what do you really know about zionism?
Here are some fun facts; R Kook z”l was R shloma zalman z’l and R Elyahsiv’s rebbe. Many gedolim held like him although hard to know if most. We do know that MOST gedolim held of him including the chafetz chaim who wanted to make peace between him and R Chaim S.
I know gedolim made all kinds of statements. But at the end of the day most of them were really just against the secular nature of the state vs the concept of taking it back or the 3 shavous. Yes they will say different but thats the real truth.
Re today, these are just tinok shneshbos who no longer look to shamd. Stop it with this “zionist’ nonsense
Manichewitz (owned by Kedem now) now makes hand made shmurah matzah. Its almost never broken. They claim its all hand made. (is there some loophole where a machine still does part of it? I don’t know. But if fully handmade they are almost all whole)
How do you come on here and say Israel is a major win? He isn’t letting them go into Rafah and is tying their hands for months. During the first month he was amazing. But since then Biden has allowed himself to get bullied by the muslim arabs who obviously seek to tie Israel’s hand. (he isn’t intentionally hating Israel). He drinks all the kool aid and lies of Hamas.
Hunger and famine while its citizens play volleyball at the beach and its markets are full of food. The food given to them is stolen by Hamas too.
He falls for the lies about 33K innocent civilians. He fails to see that,
1) 10K is exaggerated
2)14K were terrorists
3) 5K were killed by friendly fire like PLJ rockets landing in gaza.
4) The other 5-6K are mostly “civilians” where adults were complicit in their deaths like shooting from behind children (often their own).
Yes there were a few tragidies like the 7 aid workers but its rare.Biden has been an obstacle at every point slowing the IDF down and emboldening Hamas. And then oh he and the “shomer yisroel” blame it on Bibi. As if the rest of israel feels differently about this war. Or that Bibi is extending this war to stay in power. But oh if you only would them take Rafah the war would move quicker. They forgot that its Biden slowing down the war. But lets not let facts get in the way of your anti trump religon. Biden must be a saint becaue trump is all evil.
Ok so this and his civil trial proves that when trump didn’t pay taxes its because he really was poor. As long as you have no issue with his tax returns.
@ctlawyer,
Male white evangelical Christian’s don’t nearly pose a threat to world Jewry like Muslims do. And you can’t just worry about the USA like Jews did in 1944. You need to worry about your brothers in Israel too. If we had senator Fetterman I’d be the first to vote for him vs Trump. But now you are faced with two very bad choices. For our brothers sake you vote for the devil Trump@Lostspark,
But so far there is no american war in the mid east and its not likely to happen. Its a scary thought in theory but very unlikely. Don’t forget trump doesn’t like wars and is an isolationist. What we do know is that right now our jewish brothers are at tremendous risks not seen since the holocaust. Its not the time to get lost in what if hypothetical highly unlikely events.
@Participant: I am not a major trumpie. Till the Israel war I was a never Trumper and still repulsed from him. When trump said Israel has got to finish their job quickly and got out of there it sounded like he is also calling for a ceasefire. But here is the thing. WNYC not exactly a Trump leaning station had as segment about this on the BL show and I thought the seized it up well. Trump isn’t saying that Israel should stop. Trump is saying just nuke the place and don’t care how many people die but then get out of there. In other words by dragging out the war you make my problems. Its not that he cares about lives or its people. His comment yesterday was just about seizing the moment to stoke anti biden rhetoric.. The man is a master at exploiting situations. Trump is an amazing con man. But its ludicours to think that when you have so many diehard Israel supporters, a jewish son in law and just a hate for muslims that al of a sudden he will turn on Israel. Look at his record first term.@ jackk
I wanted to keep my other post only about Israel. But now let’s get back to trump. He won’t be in jail before the republican nomination and won’t even be found guilty by then . That’s just silly hyper talk . You need to speak logically. You know that not happening . Now say he is found a guilty before the elections. It takes time to sentence and he will appeal etc. Even a regular criminal takes longer. Now say trump does need to go to jail. How do you plan on properly jailing a former or president elect securely so that he is safe. You also know the kind of war it will usher in with a jan 6 on steroids. He can probably just stay in a Trump friendly state and defy orders. Good Luck sending in the NYS troopers to trump zone and igniting a civil war. This will be a logistical nightmare. You need to think rational.@jackk,
I don’t disagree re your assessment of how bad of a person Trump is. However I do disagree about Israel . And I do not think you as a Jew are entitled to put America first. This isn’t just the classic pro vs anti Israel debate. Oct 7 is modern day holocaust and requires us dropping every other value for that. Imagine if by electing trump you saved Jews from dying in 1944 vs FDR yimach shimo. Wouldn’t you have done it then no matter how bad of a person Trump is. I don’t think that as a Jew you have the right to care about anything else.Now to Bibi. At the end of the day Israel cannot do this alone. The recent Iranian attack shows that. You say Bibi will do what is best for Israel’s security no matter what. But here is the thing. Israel needs the USA for its security. If Biden won’t allow Gaza Bibi cannot go against him.
Re Biden s goals, I agree that ideally he wants Hamas destroyed like Israel. But he is scared of the Arabs. It’s 1B Muslims against 20m Jews . The Muslims are louder and scarier. Deep down Biden knows the moral choice. It’s not like Biden really believes these Palestinians are innocent. He simply is too scared of the Palestinians and has to balance that with the need to destroy Hamas. Now it’s not a zero sum game and yes there are a few innocent that die although most aren’t. And so there is a bit of that too. But even for those innocent that die, anyone with true moral Justice gets that, when an enemy bent on killing, kidnapping and abusing you, again and again hides behind them there is no choice. Biden drinks tue Hamas PR kook aid too much. Trump doesn’t fall for their PR stunts.
Now let me explain what finishing the job means because it’s really simple. It means destroying Hamas total infrastructure and disrupting their power to govern. As long as they have rafah they have infrastructure, governing systems, power etc. Once that’s all destroyed they have nothing. Does that mean Hamas goes away ? No . Is there an end solution ? No there isn’t. Because the honest truth is Gaza is just a huge Jonestown like cult. All 2m people drink the kool aid since they are in the cradle. You can’t stop them. But you can limit them. If hamas infrastructure is gone , they have no way to commit oct 7 again. The Shfa disaster where Israel cornered over 700 fighters proves this. Once their infrastructure is gone once they crawl out they have no where to run and reorganise. They will always be around but too weak to mobilise. And Israel will just keep on wacking. And so finish the job means Israel take Rafah. That’s the goal.
You do realize that Trump is ahead in 90% of the polls takes since April as per 538. When he wins like or it not, good luck locking him up in Rikers. You wouldn’t even be able to from a security standpoint. There is no law forbidding a president from serving his presidency even if guilty of a crime. You will never logisciallcy be able to lock him up even if he loses let alone presidency Trump is corrpt but he is above the law and thats just life. The best thing for the USA is to just let him be vs stoking conflict and a civil war. It is what it is.
I also gather you are not too republcian leaning. For the sake of our brothers in israel who are under the worse threat since the Holocaust, I urge you to vote for the corrupt Trump vs Biden who panders to Muslims and refuses to let Israel finish the job and stay secure. If for no other reason you must stay republcian for that alone. It comes way before any other issue. Unless you plan on voting on Senator Fetterman . may he live and be well till 120.
@Reb Eliezer,
I fail to see your point. There are only two choices now,
1) Someone who emboldens Muslims and Palestinians.
2) Someone who emboldens white supremacy.Which one is a bigger threat right now? What keeps you up at night? I lost sleep on Oct 7 night. i didn’t loose sleep on Jan6
RebE,
Trump is erratic and out of control. He pushes out his advisors . All true . But right now us Jews are going through a crisis not seen since the holocaust. The Muslims are a threat on multiple fronts but even just Hamas. It’s true that Trump brings out white supremacy but that’s not our existential threat now. We need a leader that will stand up against the cease fire now movement and Palestinians. Trump did that in the past and the republicans are staunchly pro Israel. That’s what we need now. I wish we had someone better even Kennedy. But this is all we got.I just want to make sure i get you correctly. So now it no longer bothers you that Trump didn’t pay taxes and reported huge losses? After all he isn’t wealthy and can’t even cover his bail.
Just to jump into this bandwagon , I suggest we focus on the practicality vis ideology;
1) Charedim are generally not suited culturally to fight. Refer to WNYC all things considered on 3-25 where they have a segment about this and discuss if it even makes sense.
2) The religious accommodations would be such a drag on the IDF that its another strain. Imagine gera chasdim who hold you need to wear a long reckel and even men can’t just wear pants.
3) Lamasa if you force it via a draft charedim will reject even more. This is just the facts.yechiell
All that you say is true but now that your brothers in israel are going through a holocuast and one party is more suitable than the other to help, no matter how rotten the man is, you still must vote for them.
@CTlawyer,
I totally get you. My question was what’s the point in “convicting” Trump when you can’t jail him? Secondly, is you rule only about non violent crimes committed when in office? How about his 2015 crimes now being charged in NY? Or his classified documents which occurred in 2021?@ Always_Ask_Questions,
I think many blacks or prosecuted unfairly and that also must be examined. But that’s a different issue. Blacks do tend to commit more crimes and mass incarceration with overzealous prosecutors is just an altitude of how to deal with it. In the case of rich white powerful people, it’s about prosecutors looking to gain fame via nitpicking and finding gotcha moments. We also more generally have a flawed legal system where if you commit a monetary crime it’s automatically ten statutes for each dollar stolen so that the punishment is so high. We need to fix that too so that it’s one punishment for one crime.And no I don’t just say it because Jews got caught. I don’t think SBF or Elizabeth Holmes should not get that much time either.
Of course Jews should be more careful in golus but it’s easier said than done . In Albany that’s how all legislators make money. It’s a part time job and the other part of tue time it’s about lobbying and meeting special interests. You can’t make a living from simply being a legislator.
You bring out a great point. But that doesn’t make our justice system so great. Should we be extra vigilant? 100% That doesn’t negate the fact that the legal system in our country is morally corrupt. You also have not morally disproven my point. You take the legal system for granted as being morally upstanding just because we are in a medina shel chesed. I asy ask yourself it it is moral? I see it all based on which prosecutor scores the most brownies and gains fame. The idea that our democracy is so holy and that you can never say its corrupt, is morally flawed. Ina similar note, its OK for BLM to smash stores on 5th Ave and loot but if you a rich dude and you steal front he govt you get the slammer for 25 years. meanwhile Yankel Rosenbaum’s murders, OJ and Cosby are all out on the streets. This is all very relevant to Trump too. the man is a low life and probably a criminal but who says the prosecutions are all just
Lets not got piety or petty on typos. It doesn’t reflect intellect and its a distraction.
Re Trump if you don’t want him convicted what’s the point in prosecuting him? In fact it just riles his base and increases the chances of any wins. Do you mean to suggest that you are only for prosecuting Trump financially via fines but not criminally?I think this is such a nuanced question that it needs to be tackled in multiple directions. Firstly is this a moral question or a practical question?
Morally, I think noone should be prosecuted for a crime that prosecutors look aside and/or are piety. In other words if the only reason they go after the individual is because they are famous and its scores brownies but the crime itself isn’t one they’d normally go after the layman for then its morally wrong. For example, what Shelly Silver a’h went thru. He committed a questionable quid pro quo crime that was very piety and questionable if wrong to begin with. Its vague in nature. Its like they got him right over the red line. Same with Rubashkin and Eisman in Lakewood. As it pertains to Trump, the same should apply. His real estate shtick, classified docs, or the stormy stuff are all things we don’t usually go after laymen for. As it pertains to election interference or insurrection, if he committed those crimes, that’s not piety or silly crimes. It warrants prosecution.
Just as a side note, (since I brought it up) the punishment for some of these piety crimes are mortally wrong. We seem to have 10 statutes for every little monetary crime so that when convicted these people get the slammer for 25+ years. Meanwhile rapists and murderers get less. There is something very morally wrong when Shelly Silver has to die in prison without family and loved ones nearby while everyone else got out on Covid safety rules or other technicalities. The same is for Rubashkin who would have sat there for another 15 years. For what? What was the crime already? (I forgot it was 20 crimes because it was 20 statutes. Cmon ) Are they so evil. We became so cruel when it comes to money. I think its because we love saying we got the famous rich white guy.
Back to main topic, The second issue is practically. So if trump is found guilty, how will you jail him? Lets say he wins elections then what? Will you jail a sitting president? what if it invokes dysfuction or some kind violence in the country? I mean say there is a republican congress and trump is sent to prison, they will bring down the country via severe govt shutdowns, and other disobedinece like you never saw before. There also can be cv’s mass shootings and a decay in the streets with Trump crazies. And if trump is found innocent, this will embolden him and make him crazier. Ask yourself if its practical and/ or worth the consequences? Its horrible to say people are above the law but maybe thats just life and its not worth it.
As you can of elude to, it depends what nachas is. If it means tot run out the exact way that parents want them tp then yes you have a point. But if it means to be fine jews who serve hashem in whatever manner works best, assuming is torahdik then that is what children are here for.
@Menachem Shmei,
I am not convinced that the Israeli flag is not for torah and mitzvos just like the tzvios hashem flag. There is kedushas haretz and alot of mitzvios that apply in EY. Now it is true that once upon a time it was used by rashim like Ben Gurion YMS to say we do not need to observe mitzvahs CV’s because we have the medina. And we intentionally only wnat things to be secular to the point of kidnapping immigrants and snipping their peyos off. However, that is no longer the case. We live in a post zionist world. The flag has no come to represnt a simple unity among jewish people. Furthermore, even if its not as “jewish” as a menora, at a time of epic tragedy like this and when it is exactly threatening Jews of Israel for river to sea …There is a justa time and oplace and you can’t just bring a defrence from a sicha said 60 years ago.
As a side note yes the reba z’l was human to and at times changed his opinion too. I know for a chosid that may be kefria but for us layman its the turth. it doesn’t degrade the person to say that. We know he went to college but was anti college too. And no i don’t buy that he went to college for chasdic purposes but would have never gone if not. Thats baloney. he went because that was the mood at the time. But as time evloved he shtigged like we should all be. He realized that engineering is not important in life and then told chasdim not to attend college. My point is things chnage as time elvolves and the same with the flag.@menachem shmei,
During times like these we need some kind of public display that’s a symbol . What would you suggest we use? A tzivos Hashem flag ?