Chaim87

I think some of this is overkill and revising history a bit. Yes Rabbi J.B. did indeed battle to keep his corwd from becming conservative jews and offered a more open minded approach. But the truth is the most of the Litfsiha world pre war was pretty much like the modern otrhodox . Rabbi J.B> wasn’t offering anew approach. This was just how it was done in Lita. Many famous RY’s including R Hutner, R Ruderman and others went to college. R Arons daughter went to college. And many women from Lita didn’t cover their hair. There were a few very frum such as R Elchanon zl and Briska rav. But as whole most of Lita were not “yeshvish” and would look today more like the modern orthodox community. In the 1930’s & 40’s Torah vodaath wasn’t so different then Yitzchok Elchnaon. Thy even contemplated copying Rabbi DR Revel and creating a college to. They always allowed college and until the 1980’s allowed mixed non jewish college too. So Rabbi J.B. was just contuning the litfsha approach.

@Menachem Shmei
i beg to differ. Firstly people especially those hesitant if the rav or school pushes they’d go if it’s free. The lines when things are free are always larger.

Secondly even if people aren’t machsiv it I don’t think
It’s true that the filter will do very little. Once your phone is filtered you aren’t just buying a second phone. You’ll just keep that phone . A filter isn’t just like a separate item . It’s attached to your device . Once it’s there you’ll use it.

Lastly I Guarantee if you ask an outsider what tag does they will say it provides filters . No it’s not a chutzpah to ask a mosod to do what it’s assumed it does. And years ago it did pay for filters. It’s only when they advanced. Like I noted this is hair splitting. A mosid should fully see through to its goal or it’s not a tzedaka

☕ DaasYochid ☕
My analogy to bikkur Cholom and the way you explain it is exactly my point. Bikkur chilom could just place banding machines that charge so that people have access to food when they are vulnerable. That’s a cheeseed too. But they understand that part of the mitzva is to just give when people are vulnerable. The same is in ruchnyas . When people are vulnerable and you are trying to help with filters just give. Furthermore many bikkut choloms ask for donations in the hospital . And I gladly swipe my card.

Re Tag isn’t about funding fiiltets rather it’s access. Again you are hair splitting double fold. Firstly, its goal is that you have a filter. Part of that is to fund it. Again it’s like saying bikkur Cholom isn’t about funding the food it’s about helping you access kosher food. It’s silly and absurd to split the two. And there is plenty of money for both.

Re your last point, that’s just again a moot point. I don’t have the know how or the expertise nor connections to be able to open or take on such a thing. They have the whole system set up already. It would also result in lots of duplicacy and waste of Money.

To sum it uo, Tag is in that space already. It’s hairsplitting to say they only help with accessing but don’t give the filter. It’s Klien kepatick and I think a cop out plus probably some Shultz involved too

HaKatan
Furthermore I still stick to what I said that most gedolim were against Zionism because of secularism and not because of the ideology

@Yserbius123
it’s not $10 for a family who owns 8 or 9 devices at times.
And by the way a pc is $150 . Amex offers a free dell laptop just fyi. But that’s a side point.
And if you aren’t on top of things everytime you get a new device you need to cancel the old one or you’ll be charged. It’s also more like $15-$20 a month per device vs $13.
Lastly, it’s not just the cost it’s the idea that people are less pron to do something if you charge them. It’s the way humans are. And not everyone is convinced that a filter is an obligation . It’s looked at as a nice thing.

Let me ask you if it’s really not so much money why can’t TAG pay for it . They run a multi million dollar organization and they can’t pay $10 a month? It’s so much money ? As I noted I bet bikur Cholom gives out more meals a day then TAG does filters. And food cost more than $10 a month? So if b cholim puts together the money why can’t TAG?

@Always_Ask_Questions
T was good for Israel in his first term and that further strengthens my view this time around to. We agree on that.

No “Big wars”? And exactly what “BIG wars” did Obama or Biden have? You mean worldwide no “BIG wars”? You really think that the president has so much influence to solve the worlds problems. Like Russia would not have taken Ukriane under trump? I don’t buy that. Trump had luck.

“In internal politics, all kind of stupid things and spending was happening, with no hope ahead”
Do you know how much Trump increased spending and bloated our budget even before COVID? Then came COVID where Trump spent like a druken sailor with no accountability. I believe in total the deficit increased by $7T under trump. I am gald so many yidden got PPP and so many got paid to sit home and not work.($600 stimulus) on top of $1200 per person stimulus. But you think that doesn’t cause inflation??? And who are you kidding about Tarrifs. Its such a petty thing. China & mexico produce what would we mostly have no interest in producing and for much cheaper.. The old republican free economy and open trade is a far better policy. Immigration, we need immigrants. I need my goyta and so does your local grocery store.

Trump also lies about crime that immigrants cause. (as if our hands were so clean when we were immigrants in the early 1900’s). He blows up stroies and makes it up. Same is true, about the stolen elections fraud. All a complete lie and his ilk drink the kool aid. They pick on one small incident and that becomes the buggyman. Same with Biden being corrupt because of Hunter. These are all lies with 10% of truth that becomes the narrative.

The federal govt is indeed inefficient. But not because its workers are goofing off and ripping off the govt. Its ineffienct because its lacking technology and living off paper trails plus old legacy systems written in the 1970’s. When i apply for medicaid it should be able to use AI and other tools to decide upon my approval within 24 hours. It shouldn’t take 3 months and require the human eye. Laying off employees isn’t the answer. The answer is making a short term investment where you spend more to modernize and retrain employees. (Then if someone resists retraining then yes he/she should be laid off). Musks ideas will just cause more pain in the long run.

The only policy which I agree with is about transgenders and schools who push educating that. i think thats exaggerated too. But there even if 10% is true it needs to stop.

Make no mistake. I am a Trump supporter who is not fooled by the mans deceit nor do I buy into most of his horrible policies. I do think the man comes with alot of risk. But what can i do, i can’t bear the thought of Oct 7 (I still shake when tuck my children into bed thinking about the last time Yarden Bibas tucked his children in on Oct 6). And to me, that’s so overwhelming and perosnal that anyone who will stand up to the palsestinains with the might of Trump superceeds anything else.

@ DaasYochid ☕

“No, their point is to encourage and help facilitate installing filters.”

Thats whitewashing and using excuses like TAG does because they are lazy to fundraise. When they started the mosad years ago it was to get people to have filters. Everyone knows that. This fine line that its only here to “raise awareness” and facilitate but not to install is just an excuse. Most pople who donate to the tzedka do so because they want people to get filters. This kind hairsplitting is an excuse and frankly its a little deceiving once you call it a tzedka. And even if you feel no this was only their mission statement, since they are in this space and do all the work already, it wouyld be incumbent on them to be big boys and go the full route. Stop the hair splitting.

I get your argument that there isn’t funding but I don’t buy it. BH people are so wealthy that its not hard to get funding. As I mentioned above, Aderi torah gets $5M+ for one shabbos and TAG can’t raise some money for filters? BH there is a shefa of gelt for everything under the sun. Furthermore, like I noted, TAG would still”request” that everyone who gets a filter pay and 90% would pay. You only need to raise for the 10%. Maybe 20%. I am not buying that there is no money for it. I think its mindset. Like es pas nisht to just give it out for free.

@HaKatan
Yes, even gedolim wrote nice titles. They had no choice, as Rabbi Kook was very powerful politically, and they had to deal with him.

Again with your lies. I thoguht you said something thats in writing can’t be interpreted?? Now you are doing just that. So Satmar reba sefarim can’t be that he was really just anti secular and this was just a way to stop the secularism. Thats would be called an Interpretation. But all the gedolim claling him such high names including those in europe were because he was “powerful”. No interpretation there?

And whats the reason that after his passing for many years gedolim like R Elyashiv pubclally held him in high respct? Also because they were scared of his “power”?

And was he really so powerful politically that gedolim in Europe should be scared? Give me a break. He wasn’t so powerful. Ypu made that up and continue to make up youtr own rules. He was just well respected.

Botttom line, its Ok to say that most gedolim did not agree with zionsim from a hashkafa. We therefore need to go like the majorty. But to say that there is zero of a makor in out torah or to say its heresy is just your own hot headedness making things up.

@crazykanoiy
I think the issues you raise don’t really hurt Jews that much. Just as you see with the maga Jews that nothing Trump does can be bad because they drink the maga kool aid , I see that with you. I don’t think it’s intentional but I think your mind is gravitating to the trees vs the forest. Humans tend to believe what they want to. It’s very difficult to truly be honest intellectually when there is such high emotions such as with Trump. I find this to be the case on both sides of the aisle.

I saw you threw in musk as a Jew hater. There is no proof to that other than how he moved his hands once without thinking. He was attacked for some bizarre Nazis salute. If you step back and think logically why would musk even do that in public? He also denied that intention. It makes no sense . But the conclusion right away is that he is a Nazis. That’s exactly how things get blown up. And to be fair, musk is very dangerous. That further eggs people on to hate him and rightfully so. But it clouds judgement from the obvious which is that he never intended to salute despite how despicable of a person he is.

And so back to Trump and Israel. Of course what’s going on in colleges have a huge impact. It’s why Biden delayed certain weapons shipments to Israel and condemned them a few times. It’s also physically scary for the students who are present in college. It’s tangibley dangerous right now. Will Carlson fame fade away or will he have a greater influence on Americans in the future? I don’t have a glass ball nor will I stand here and defend him. (.personally I think the man just wants attention and has no ideology at all)

I get your concern about future repercussions.
Boruch D I get what you are saying . I wouldn’t call your concerns secondary issues. But I think what both you and crazy knoy miss is that, this is an emergency right now. There is no time to think . We need to do what’s best right now because it’s the worse it’s been since the holocaust. Trump clearly doesn’t fall for Hamas charades and has Israel’s back on this . It’s the first time the Arabs and the U.N. Are being told to their face that all 2m Palestinians are terrorists . Don’t fall for the charades. And the world can’t deny it anymore. It finally sets the playing field and ups the aunte. That with Israel having the green light plus bringing hostages home are all so important that if that’s the price to pay for having Trump we will clean up his mess later

TAG has connections with filter companies. They should be offering free filters even if it means that TAG needs to pay something for the filters. That’s what tzedaka is about. Tomechai Shabbos doesn’t raise its own chickens either. At minimum I am saying that TAG should be offering those filters free for those that can’t afford it. It doesn’t mean you can’t ask those that can afford it to pay

@
☕ DaasYochid ☕
The problem is that many of us get multiple devices it’s not unheard of for a family to have 7-8 devices . Those costs add up. And it’s continuous unlike the device which is one time expense. Furthermore, they run it so like a business. I once had an issue whereby I mistakenly signed up twice for the same fliter and was double charged. They refused to provide a refund for the extra until i threatened to dispute the charge and go public. They also played this game that the billing dept or anyone high up was never available when i tried to call. In reality it’s one little office with 3 people.(they think i am stupid)

I don’t know who the poster above is or if it’s a troll, but I can say that I agree with him. It’s a chutzpah that on the one hand everyone preaches to get a filter and tag is so holy but they charge plus nickel and dime. I noted this in another forum. You could continue to believe that everyone is so sold on filters like a food hashgacha. But it’s really not the same. And people aren’t sold. Tag and others need to stop all this nickel and dimming. Yes you can offer free filters too with a requested donation . I guarantee if you do you’d fine the money. I don’t buy that you can’t . You just a want the perks of saying how helig the mosad is without sweating. The altitude needs to change. And certainly stop Nickle and dimming

@HaKatan
You can write heresy and not be a kofer? Not only that but you can still be the greatest gedolims rebbe????
You are full of yourself! LOL

In a letter to Rabbi Kook, Rabbi Isser Zalman Meltzer and Rabbi Moshe Mordechai Epstein greeted Rabbi Kook with “Our honored friend, the great gaon and glory of the generation, our master and teacher, Avraham Yitzchak Hacohen, shlita”. Meltzer was also quoted as saying “Let them, any of us, pray on Yom Kippur the way Rav Kook prays on an average weekday.”[43]

Rabbi Isser Zalman Meltzer also once said to the famed Rabbi Chaim Ozer Grodzinsky from Vilna, “The two of us are considered Torah giants until we reach the door of Rabbi Kook’s office.” (cited by Rabbi Eliezer Melamed, Israel National News, August 8, 2013).

There are also some rabbis who spoke very highly of Kook in greetings of the letters they sent to him.

Chaim Ozer Grodzinski: “Our friend, the gaon, our master and teacher, Rabbi Avraham Yitzchak Kook, shlita” and “The Glory of Honor, My Dear Friend, Ha-Rav Ha-Gaon, Ha-Gadol, the Famous One… The Prince of Torah, Our Teacher, Ha-Rav Avraham Yitzchak Ha-Cohen Kook Shlita…”[44]

Boruch Ber Leibowitz: “The true gaon, the beauty, and glory of the generation, the tzaddik, his holiness, Rabbi Avraham Yitzchak, may his light shine, may he live for length of good days and years amen, the righteous Cohen, head of the beis din [court] in Jerusalem, the holy city, may it soon be built and established.”

Chatzkel Abramsky: “The honored man, beloved of Hashem and his nation, the rabbi, the gaon, great and well-known, with breadth of knowledge, the glory of the generation, etc., etc., our master Rabbi Avraham Yitzchak Hacohen Kook, shlita, Chief Rabbi of the Land of Israel and the head of the Beis Din in the holy city of Jerusalem”

Rabbi Shlomo Zalman Auerbach: “In the time of Rabbi Kook, the majority of Torah giants were ‘all as if nothing’ compared to him.

Rabbi Yosef Shalom Elyashiv: Owing to the close relationship Rabbi Kook had with his grandfather, the Leshem, Rabbi Shlomo Elyashiv, Rabbi Kook made the match of Rabbi Yosef Shalom Elyashiv and his wife, who was the daughter of Rabbi Kook’s close student, Rabbi Aryeh Levin. Rabbi Kook officiated at their wedding, and Rabbi Yosef Shalom Elyashiv later chose Rabbi Kook to be the Kohen (Priest) to redeem his oldest son, Shlomo, at his Pidyon Ha-Ben. Rav Elyashiv revered Rav Kook for both his piety and his Talmudic erudition. Rav Elyashiv would do all he could to silence those who would criticize Rav Kook and attempt to diminish his stature. He would frequently describe Rav Kook’s saintliness at his Shabbat table and occasionally reminisce about the times he attended seudah shelishit in his home.

Rabbi Ovadia Yosef said of Rabbj Kook that he was “a great man” and it is “forbidden to speak against him.” Rabbi Yosef further called Rabbi Kook “Tzaddik Yesod Olam

We know Haktan will say ots all stories that can be interpreted. Right only his facts are correct. of course he will bully us despite overwhelming evidence that R Kook was a holy man.

@crazykanoiy
` Trump talking to hamas is one tiny blip of disagreemnt. You are grasping on straws. While he talks to them he is tweeting that they will pay for it if they don’t listen. They even hinted on more american involvement. Look people weren’t so ahppy with the whole phase 1 deal that Trump forced upon israel. You will never credit him for that. But once you saw those hostages come home I think we all saw it was needed. It’s very convenient for bias perosn like you to find that one straw and blow it up vs seeing the big picture.

Re The Trump gaza plan you miss the point or rather I should say you chose to miss the point. Noone ever suggests it workable. But even you’ll admit in a perfect world it would be the idela plan. From logical perspective thats what sane people would do. Lets say i told you we are rebuilding the towns on LA hit by wildfires or a town hit by sandy. Would you let everyone hang out near the destruction with downed wires and polls or small fires still burning? You’d first nee to clear everyone out for safety. Then we you rebuild would you build in the same way? Some houses in real flood zones with unsafe land will never be rebuilt, others need to rebuilt differently and smarter. You just can’t guarantee that everyone gets their house back. .Now imagine that on top of the destruction you also have a society stuck in a cult like Jonestown who will go on killing spree and die rather than leave. Would you just rebuild Jonestown after a huraaicne or would you try to offer people in its a cult opportunity for a better furutre and to snap out of it?
Do we agree that in a perfect world we should be doing what Trump suggests? If you say no , you are just insane.

Now practically exactly as you say it, its not workable. because we are dealing with a cult of terror and crazy people. So whats the gain? It moves the needle and makes the world stop and think. It challenges Egyot while exposing Hamas charade . it further isolates Hamas. All reports are that the gulf states ditched the egypt summit and have no interest in contributing toward its rebuilding. Obviulsy the trump plan will never happen but it fianlly moves the neddle. How far? Who knows. But it moves it. Furthermore, it gives Israel more validlity as people see there are no two sides. There is a reason Hamas is livid with the trump plan. Don’t forget we aren’t looking to make “peace” with Hamas where you’ll argue such plans are not condusive with peace. Israel doesn’t want peace and its not safe to make peace. We are looking to eliimnate and isolate them a smuch as we can. Thats the only way forward. This does that.

Re your point about the money Israel gets. Thats silly. You & I know trump likes to line his own pockets first. He also likes his base. (I also thinks he genuinely respects jews and Jared but leave that aside). What comes out of the govt is not the same as what lines his own pockets and enriches him. That still comes forst by trump. And the pro Israel money lining his pockets are billions and billions.. Side note, This think that he cares so much about govt spending is a farce. trump is a fraud. last time around he spent like a drunken sailor. This is just the way the wind is blowing and for what he wants like his stupid border nonsense he is spending like a durnken sailor. Its all about what enriches trump. So he couldn’t;’t really care less about the USA dishing out money to Israel if its further himsef Meanwhile I don’t see anyone form Ukraine lining his pockets. its a good chance that the Ruskies are lining his pockets more. I am not saying that its just the donors that keep him supporting israel. Its also a principal where he think he hates arabs and is pro isarel. But the money helps a lot and keeps that going. And yes Ukriane was dumb and should have gotten some oligarchs to help him. Trump is indeed corrupt. And so no trump won’t flip on Israel bec he likes himself too much.

All in all, I agree with you that Trump’s polices are horrible and destructive. The man is also morally corrupt with every name in the book. But at the same time its also true that his approach to Israel is very very crucial and important. I think you only deny that because you are bias and it leads to intellectual dishonesty. Its very hard to admit that such a morally corrupt destructive man can be good for jews and israel. you don’t want to believe it and thereffore you wash away the obvious thats staring at you in the face. During these life and death moments which are pivotal for israel, this should override all the other negatives.

@crazykanoiy
Trump’s talking to Hamas doesn’t mean anything. That’s Trump. he does those things all the time. At the end of the the day, Trump also tweeted last night that only sick people keep dead bodies and blasted them again. Overall, I think that report is being blown way outo fproportion compared to his overall policy and behavior.

Re The Trump Gaza plan. No its not pure nonsense. Its just that you are such a Trump hater that you can admit the truth. And what I mean to say is lets start with the theory. In theory the most sensible thing to do to a city that’s run by a cult and completely destroyed is to rebuild in a way where the people are not dependent on its cult leader. Now you ask but hey the arabs will never agree and neither will hamas so whats the point? The point is that it moves the needle in terms of negotiations. The Arabs realize that can no longer just do business as usual where its rebuilding the same terror infrastructure again to get destroyed. the gulf nations have no interest in contributing to that. It squeezes Hamas further. They can’t play the same charade again.

To your other point, but it didn’t move Hamas. Firstly i think it got them to phase one. Biden/Blinken did a great job and outlining a plan but Hamas refused to bring it to the finishline. Secondly, it takes time but so far what its doing is, its squeezing Hamas. Now Hamas is on a high because just by showing they survived they won. But once they need to govern and need to come onto others, the more Trump threatens and shows the world how monstorus they are, the less sympathy the world has.

Your point about Zelensky is a mute weak point, We know trump is transactional. trump gains nothing from supporting Zelensky. On the other hand form Israel the man gets billions and billions of dollars, his entire base is pro israel from the evangelicals to the Aidelsons. Just from the transactional point of view the comparison is just a very poor analogy.

@ HaKatan
Again because others disagreed that means that R solvetchik doesn’t count and it’s an arutzas. Yup same with R kook same with eim habonim. Oh and if Satmar Reba dismissed the arguments that makes the other side keflra?

Your arrogance holds no bounds and you are full of hot air. When only your side counts and everyone else is dismissed as an am haratz or kofer you are nothing more than a loud bully. You can fairly argue that these gedolim were mostly das yachid and we shouldn’t pasken like them although I am not sure that’s accurate. But to say with certainty is just your arrogant bully lies .

We must not get intimidated and resist hakatan bullying.
Zionism is NOT factually against our Torah. According to many holy Jews Zionism is al pi Torah. We have Torah sources and Mesorah which is stronger than Torah sources. Of course the biggest proof is that the religious Zionist remain strong shomeri Torah umitzvas. That’s the siman.

@crazykanoiy
I am sorry but those reports are sketchy at best. Its also just talks and I don’t see anything substantive at of those kinds of things. You have to be completely baised and dishonest not to see how good trump is for Israel so far. After the Trump Gaza plan, new arms shipments, revoking bans on ben Gvir etc. How can you not see that? Especially the Gaza plan is finally a major break trough. No other president had the guts to stand up to the arabs and say we aren’t falling for your charades and games anymore. Gaza is a big cult with 2M terrorists. Trump did that. Thats a huge gain for Israel. We also have his first term to go by and reflect his record on israel.

To be clear, I am totally anti Trump on nearly every other issue aside for maybe his transgender fight. When it comes to immigration, Musk, fiscal policy, his crazy Tarriffs or even just the character and type of person him and his ilk are, its revulsive That’s not how a MAGA kool-aid drinker thinks, But to.deny ow good he is for Israel even compared to Biden-Blinken (who were pretty close to second to best) is just completely dishonest.

@Baruch D
I am from the few people that liked the Biden deal too. I am even thankful for all Biden has done . But there is a difference. The same deal was under Biden but under Trump there is a no nonsense clause. Trump ain’t falling for the peaceful Palestinian suffering charade . He knows they are all terrorists. Trump is also willing to send the heaviest weapons with no restrictions. Those things matter

@somejewiknow,

LOL once again you and your silly kanios hot headedness. We can go to the other forum to debate zionsim. Thats not for here. The point is lamsa right now the arabs want to kill us. If we gave up the state tommorow believe me they’d come after you so viscously. Its not safe to hand over the keys to blood thirsty monsters. So practically speaking right now, we need Trump to save lives. And if we need to gibe him a piece of real estate so be it. You should be on my team on this one. This isn’t a zionist debate anymore.

We don’t sav Jewish lives by fighting back? Are you for real? You got crazier by the day? Should we hand out candy to Hamas??? POarctcilly speaking what would you do now? Even Satmar wouldn’t say to give back the keys now. You are either a radical NK or just drank too much lachaims? Are purimdik already? You really think if we give it all back Hamas will be nice to us??????

Of course jews are at danger but not the level that everyone should get up and leave EY. There are differnet levels and this is a pretty serious level. Rabbonim didn’t say everyone should pick up and leave Europe after its mnay programs and murders either. You don’t necessarily say to leave. (In fact your Reba told people not to leave during the holcaust nor run away because that would have meant cooperating with zionsists oy vey. Even though R michoel ber zl begged him to. of cours ehe himslef did end up on kastner. But thats a side point)

The “whole jeiwsh world”? I walk in shuls all over Lakewood BP Monsey and they say tehlim that Israel succeed (Not necessarily the chaylim but overall everyone be safe) Noone is praying for thier downfall other than a few nuts in torah vyirah. Go put on your plasteinains kerchif and dance with Weiss YMS yelling free Palestine.

@Always_Ask_Questions
Firstly yes R kook is relevant. The point is that even if one tzadik said that Zionism has a source in our Torah, no one can get up and say that no one ever held of Zionism and that’s it’s Hersey. The point is exactly that. It’s ok to say we can’t pasken like a minority but you can’t call it 100% Heretic. That’s the point . Hakatan thinks he knows more than R kook or that the rebbe of R elyshav and R shloma zalman doesn’t count.

Re your next question, what do I mean by they all supported Zionism? Very simple . They all supported the idea that Jews should have its own state in Palestine run by Jews. Did they support secularism ? No . That’s where it gets tricky. At the end of the day they opposed the fact that Ben gurion was such a rasha as well. And soon I’ll get to what changed.

The Ashkenazim joined the govt way before R shach . The imeri emes sent R itcha Meir levin to the kneeset. R shach came into the picture after Beagin won. Began was a good Jew who was not out to shmad the frum. (Aside for the fact that he refused to shoot at the rasha ben gurion who tried to kill him)Began supported the Olim hatorah which then drew R shach in. In essence the askneazim always were part of the Knesset. The difference was if they can take minister portfolios. That only the sefardim allowed.

@HaKatan
By the way till the machlokos R chaim ozer and Rubenstein the mizrachi was part of the agudah party. They didn’t see zionism as heresy even if they disagreed. It wasn’t until the chaftez chaim protested due to the lack of respect shown to r chaim Ozer in vilna, that the mizrachi split. (That was only the last 20 years of before the war) Again not “all gedolim” were against zionsim

@HaKatan
You don’t get to decide whats patehtic and whats not. You don’t get to decide who is relevant and who isn’t.

For the hundredth time, rizyhin isn’t a story. its a psak with strong mesora
No we don’t need a sefer.
Yes R Kook And EHBS is relavnt.

Judiasm doesn’t follow your made up rules.

@ HaKatan
It’s not an interpretation of a story . Stop
Lying. It’s facts and mesora. Every rizyna chusid knows that they all held of Zionism. It’s not a story. Stop saying the same untruths over and over again. FYI you do know what Torah vodaath is named after rabbi rines mizrachi yeshiva in Europe ! lol! Zionism has strong roots in our Torah with Mesorah

@HaKatan
They only fail because you decided they don’t count. Yes its what Satmar did too. Anyone who disagreed doesn’t count and isn’t charedi. Thats not how our torah works. You don’t get to make up who counts and who doesn’t and we won’t get intimated by bullies. So to be clear, both R Kook and the Stmar reba counts. So does Eim habonim simcha. Stories that are rooted in clear facts count too. Zionism accoding to many is al pi torah.

Just to be clear stories can be subject to interpretation just like sefarim can be. But when the story happened in public and there is no debate what the intention was then it’s different story (pun intended) and not subject for interpretation. So when a holy Reba fers tisch for Yom hatzmut, that’s what he did . He did that in public and was clear why and when he was doing it. What’s there to interpret? Furthermore, it wasn’t the only time he did that kind of thing. Over and over again across multiple Reba’s they declared Zionism is the Torah way. It’s mesora and psak and not just a story.