CS

Maybe you can ask those in the school you feel comfortable with to do what we had in high school: The school arranged an after school farbrengen (program/ whatever you want to call it), with a qualified person who can address the struggle (we had someone who had been struggling in this area and had gone modern and then woke up at her engagement when she saw her chosson to be hanging out with her friends who had come to say Mazal Tov. She made a u turn and took a new path fire herself after that), either someone who can personally relate or who doesn’t feel threatened by open honest questions and can address them. The event would be after school and optional, for whoever feels they would benefit from attending.

Getting back to Arso regarding the yichus question. The rabbi I know who’s knowledgeable in this field sent me copies of several pages of a sefer written on this with copious references to other sources. It’s not on Hebrew books and I’m not going to write up and translate the entire thing. I can send you the book title and page numbers if you’re that interested in getting a physical copy.

Or if there’sa way to upload them here, and you want them, lmk.

Qwerty

“This explains how he cam gey Aliyahs everyonday amd Thursday.”

Yes that’s the root of it, but that behavior has no sanction by Rabbonim or sources in the Rebbes sichos.

Arso:

“CS: “which was very real in their reality although it wasn’t true”

I can’t believe a G-d-fearing Yid could write a statement like that in regards to anything at all! It is probably the wokest statement that I have seen in YWN.

Real in their reality but not true?! If it’s real, it’s true. If it’s not true it’s not real.”

Look I’m sorry you never came across this. There’s two realities: Hashem is the Only Existence period. 2) I’m here.

Hashem created this world with these two senses of reality, and our avoda is to realize and internalize that the truth is 1, and make that true in 2.

Now these two realities can seem conflicting sometimes. The Yidden really saw a funeral. Moshe was still very much alive.

Yakov was embalmed and buried. He was alive and opened his eyes and smiled when Esavs head was knocked off.

DaMoshe:

“CS: I’d use your medical analogy, but turn it against you. If a 3 year old would read a medical text cover to cover, would you trust what the kid says regarding medicine? No, because they can’t hope to understand it.
Learning chassidus/kabalah as the primary type of Torah is like a 3 year old reading a medical text. You can’t hope to understand it, because the foundations are in Chumash, Mishnayos, and Gemara. You may think you’re an expert, but you’re not, because you’re missing the foundations. You just twist the words to suit your goals – just like the story I wrote earlier, painting the targets around the arrows.”

Chassidus is not the same as kabbala, it’s basically the essence of Torah which can bring together all the other parts and apply it to human understanding. (You’re welcome to learn kutres inyana shel Toras HaChassidus for more info and sources.) Because it always ties down to the practical, it’s not dangerous. I think what is dangerous is litvishe people coming with their understanding of Hashem’s Unity, hashgocha protis, Rebbe, Neshama, yid etc, and then seeing a one liner here or there- they’re the ones who seem to have difficulty understanding Chassidus. It’s not that they’re less smart. Is that they may have less education on these topics, as the essence of them is not discussed well in nigle, and they just throw these things around like a joke. Like the Atzmus sicha.

Arso,

“Simply, it doesn’t make sense. If the LR was himself Mashiach why refer to his father-in-law as Mashiach? And why “get answers” from his father-in-law’s grave? Wasn’t he good enough to be Mashiach on his own, or has Mashiach in your mind become a Siamese-twin concept? (Please don’t tell me that since the Rambam doesn’t say anything against it, that might indeed be the case ☹.)”

The Rebbe was completely batul to his father in law, and only finally agreed to take on the nesius when his wife, (FR’s daughter) told him that if he doesn’t do so, all her fathers work will go to waste. The Rebbe was Malchus which is the sefira that doesn’t have anything of its own but crowns the next level. The Rebbe campaigned for every chossid to have a mashpia and this was the Rebbes mashpia. Etc. in Lubavitch we have no problem being batul to the Rebbe, seeing how great he was and yet so incredibly batul to the Frierdiker Rebbe. In any case the Moshiach of the generation The Rebbe always considered his father in law. In the last two years of The Rebbes nesius, we saw some indications that this had switched to the Rebbe as the head of dor shvii.

“In lubavitch, a Rebbe is not an inspirational yid.”

Your naivete is showing once again! I have never heard a chossid of any Rebbe referring to his Rebbe as simply being an ‘inspirational Yid’. When will you learn that all the garbage taught to you in your Chassidic hashkafa classes – call them what you will – was designed to have you believe (wrongly, of course) that Lubavich is on an unbelievably higher level than Menagdim, Pailisher chassidim etc? It is all a crutch for you to lean on when you come face to face with people whose hashkofos are really Torah-true, and to prevent you realising that yours are false, misleading and dangerous.”

No I actually got this education from outside of lubavitch starting from when I was in eighth grade and a Rebbes granddaughter was boasting about her zeidas car and it didn’t compute in my head that that would be something of importance to a Rebbe until she explained to me that their Rebbes aren’t the same anymore due to yeridas hadoros. Btw even the mashpiim etc of lubavitch, who understand as much about the Rebbe as a goat does, to quote R Hillel Paritcher, who was actually a tzaddik (not that todays are), could care less about physical status symbols.

It then continued with the exposure to other groups and their lack of understanding of our natural bitul
to the Rebbe, which makes sense in this light.

Finally, your question about just replacing the Rebbe and a certain candidate you and others have referred to, just all confirm the same thing. My idea of a Rebbe and yours are completely different. Apples and oranges.

“He said, “They should not be singing a niggun of a group who consider only themselves as having the true path.”

We don’t consider ourselves as having the only true path, but we chose it because we think it’s the best path (as I hope others feel they found the best for them) and we feel incredibly lucky to be the Rebbes chassidim.

“but there are references to it being the dor hashvii”

What are the sources of those references?”

Fair question. This is really inside info though only meant for those individuals who are already living with a geula mindset and seriously interested to know for the right reasons. I can tell you that if you learn the sichos of 5751 and 5752, especially with a Lubavitcher, and pay attention to the footnotes, there’s a ton of info in them, including what you’re asking. I know you won’t be doing that, but that’s my part in answering.

“And while I’m on a quest for sources, can you please provide a source for your claim that when the Ramban said we rejected yoshke because yoshke had died, he did not really mean it, and he only said it because that was all he could say?”

I’ve asked someone, in the meantime, you and YB should please answer how the Ramban could contradict the gemara (think it’s sanhedrin 98) which says that Moshiach can come from the dead or the living, and Rashi brings two examples of individuals thus suited from both. We all know the Gemara predated the Ramban.

Qwerty

“He may have been your leader but he certainly wasn’t the leader of Klal Yisrael.”

How about you may not consider him your leader but myriads of Jews from all walks of life were touched by the Rebbe, and many many from all backgrounds came to him for personal interaction and guidance Yechidus and dollars.

“ As for me being arrogant for calling myself doctor. That’s the title I earned and was given to me by the state of NY. Should I tell my patients to call me qwerty?”

Sorry I didn’t remember your stated profession. It was meant to be an innocent example.

“ You keep returning to my supposed slander. We both agree that the Rebbe called himself god clothed on human form. You choose to believe that thos is correct. I choose to believe, as do all rational Jews, that this is Kefirah.”

It is evident from the way you post about it that your understanding of it is kefira. That’s unfortunate but when I was a high school girl and learned it in the sicha it’s in by “chance”, I didn’t understand it the way you do, and no Lubavitcher would.

Arso, I guess I wasn’t clear. The sources are all in the sicha shoftim 5751. What I meant was not physical advice, but rather someone using Nevuah to tell someone else something regarding physical matters which they wouldn’t have known otherwise. Like Shaul and the donkeys, and obviously more weighty things as well.

The other thing, I think many other Tzaddikim and Rebbeim pre the world war did this, it was quite common then. I’ve heard the same about the Baba Sali. This is not something unique to lubavitch, although after the war it was alot more rare it seems, for someone to have directed others in this area with certainty, not just as a brocha or wish which is also beautiful but not on the table

To qwerty
I’m sorry you didn’t understand my previous post. The point is they were one Neshama split between two bodies, so both are correct. Although very later on, the Rebbe hinted it would be Moshiach as nassi of the seventh generation- so that would mean his body.

Qwerty,
I’m sorry you’re not understanding the subject. I did explain it as simple and short as I could. Maybe the online forum style isn’t the way you learn? Regardless it doesn’t give you the right to slander a tzadik based on your lack of knowledge on the subject. If someone would open a medical book, not take the time to read it properly, and then say the head surgeon doesn’t know what he’s doing, what does that say?

Qwerty,
The Rebbe didn’t make up the term Nassi, it’s found in rashi, and other sefarim. The other Rebbeim used it too , as far as I know. In any case it’sa description of a position. No more arrogant than you going by the title of your profession.

CA
you’re right, I should’ve clarified. By yetzias mitzrayim, there was only disappearance. My point was that you can’t always take what looks and seems like fact for granted, because before the eigel, Moshe looked like he was being buried by the Malachim in shomayim.

Also there’s the Rabbeinu Bachya on parshas Vayechi, where he says that a true tzadik like Yakov and Rabbeinu Hakadosh, has two physical bodies, a guf gass, and guf dak. The guf gass is buried but the guf dak lives on, and that’s how Rabbeinu hakadosh kept coming home and making kiddush after his passing (must have been physical body or wouldn’t have been motzi the others). The Rebbe referenced this in relation to the Frierdiker Rebbe

Btw, to YB:

Knowing history, I’m not surprised The Rambams didn’t use the most obvious argument- that yoshke was never Moshiach material, (as Rabbi Immanuel Schochet A”H did in his debates), even though that should be fairly obvious to us all, I hope, because it probably would have cost him his head.

Arso, I agree with you that the ultimate vision is not to take care of just not frum. The ideal vision that The Rebbe left us with is that every yid is a shliach. Whatever their talents are, whether in shlichus, teaching, business etc. they do that job with a sense of shlichus, always looking out to help other yidden come closer to Hashem, as well as themselves, and prepare the world for Moshiach.

Qwerty,

“I asked CS to give an example of my having spread Loshon hora. She answered that I accepted the lie that the Rebbe is god. The problem is that the Lubavichers in a different thread said that the Rebbe announced in 1962 that he’s god clothed in human form. So I’ve spoken Lishon hora by repeating what the Rebbe said about himself.”

No, the way you presented it, due to your lack of understanding, indicated that The Rebbe is god Himself- like god who took his whole self and became a person. That’s NOT what The Rebbe said, whether the words sound similar or not, and anyone with a basic background of Chassidus would know.

The Rebbe meant the exact opposite, that the potential of every Jew, which the Rebbe is the head so able to actualize it, is to completely negate his sense of separate selfhood, and tap into his true identity of his Neshama which is one with Hashems Atzmus (not that he limits Hashem to being enclothed in one body cvs- rather- you look at him and see Atzmus- that he’sa G-dly person.)

Hope that clarifies.

Ca,

“Cs,

Disappearance doesn’t mean die (moshe rabbeinu didn’t die when he “disappeared”

I guess you missed the heavenly funeral bit. For starters

DaMoshe:
“CS, it was reported by a Yaakov Zisholtz. I have no idea who he is. If I Google him, I don’t find much. So no, I wouldn’t trust it.
If you take one prediction the Rebbe made that came true, and use that as a sign that he was a Navi… there are plenty of people who made predictions that came true, including Shabsai Tzvi.
When my wife and I were going through fertility treatments, we were having a lot of difficulty, and our doctor told us to give up. We got a bracha from a Rav that our next IVF should work, and B”H it did. Does that mean he was a Navi?
There were sports players who predicted that they’d win a game, and they did. Maybe they’re nevi’im too?”

Firstly this was a major prediction that no one else made and came with a lot of achrayus. Secondly, in the sicha, The Rebbe referenced the Alter Rebbe as saying that Chassidim should only ask for spiritual guidance, because guidance for physical matters belongs to neviim as Shaul asked the Navi Shmuel about his lost donkeys… yet we see that all Rebbeim, including the Alter Rebbe, did dispense advice about physical matters, which indicates they were neviim.

Also, anyone can give a brocha and hope for the best, but at least in one instance, someone asked his Rebbe for not a bracha, but a havtacha, to which his Rebbe said that if he wants a havtacha, there’s only one place in the world- Lubavitch. The man did go to The Lubavitcher Rebbe, and did end up getting a havtacha. There are countless stories where The Rebbe told people not to have life saving surgeries, and similar situations, which turned out fine. Jem put out 2 books of such stories so far, with the individuals names and pictures, that they culled from their videoed interviews. There’s also much more online with jem media.