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Or instead of being afraid of being influenced, become the influencer.
There is a halacha that salted chickens can be placed on one another although the blood is coming out, because since the chickens are expelling blood, they won’t take in any.So too bruchnius. See them as a tzelem Elokim, and a part of Hashem’s Creation , and teach them about their role in the world. Sheva mitzvos bnei noach. Morality. Goodness and kindness. Etc.
My father did this in Microsoft for years. I do it in cabs.
I’m kind of sad I wasn’t around when this op was posted. BYM are you still around?
If it’s sholom bayis related, humor helps alot!
On the topic of onions creation, Yaakov Avinu asked for maadanim- plural.
The Alter Rebbe explains that there are two types of Avodas Hashem that Hashem delights in, and they are reflected in the two types of delicacies :
Avodas hatzaddikim – where we go from strength to strength in kedusha – that’s reflected in naturally sweet delicacies – like fruit.
Avodas Baalei teshuva – when we fall into bad / darkness, but then we elevate it into kedusha through teshuva, so we turn the darkness into light and bitterness into sweetness.
This is reflected by delicacies that start off bitter, but through cooking etc become sweet, such as onions.
I didn’t put on any picture when I was meeting shidduchim. I felt it was shallow and wrong.
Although now when I try to help my friends and their friends etc if I don’t know the person personally and never met, a pic can reveal allot of what the words describing their personality,level of Yiddishkeit, chassidishkeit, tznius etc.
So now I’m not sure….but definitely not multiple pics, and one where you look your best.
Lately I saw a video by the Bible codes person where he found in the codes that zionism will end this year. Also I thought it was fascinating, he said that the Rebbe told Netanyahu that he will pass the sharvit over to Moshiach! Could be sooner than we think…
@joseph
“(You’re second reason about suffering less/quicker isn’t an accurate explanation for this Halacha, even assuming the point is correct — which is unlikely. Women don’t suffer less and aren’t quicker to offer to give up their lives.)”I realise it’s not really fair to quote something without a source. I’m working on getting that source, I learned it in Rabbi SB Hertzels class. He’s the shliach of rosh pina and has many fascinating stories about his experiences with the idf and halachic priorities.
In the meantime, I should take offence at your opinion of Jewish women but I won’t because I just feel bad that you don’t get it. A Yiddishe Mame gives up everything for her children and the prime example is actually brought out in this week’s parsha by hashgocha protis in Yaakov Avinus discussion with Yosef about the burial of his mother :
He tells Yosef he shouldn’t feel bad that he’s asking him to bury him in eretz Yisrael which shows how special it is, while he didn’t do the same for his mother. The reason he shouldn’t feel bad is that Rochel herself was more than ready to give up the special privilege to be buried in the holy maaras hamachpela so that she would be there for her children in the future. Not just any children, but wicked children who were exiled because of their sins. She was buried in the way so they would come and daven by her kever and then she would be able to get the promise from Hashem of vshavu banim ligvulam.
The reason why only she was able to get it was because of her great mesiras nefesh in being happy to give up her own spiritual rights for the sake of her children. This is a Yiddishe mame.
See likutei sichos chelek lamed,Parshas vayechi, sicha beis, for the full shakla vtarya on the Rashi, as well as why men give the status of Kohen Levi Yisrael, while the women make the child Jewish. I think you’ll find it fascinating.
But even without a sicha, you should know what a mother does for her children and family and how she will give up what she should have out of compassion for others.
In the Yeshiva world you would know of the essen teg where the women would take their own meals if necessary, to feed the bochurim. Bh we don’t need to do that nowadays as Hashem has blessed us with harchava.
*not
You could have also added that a married mans (even without children?) life comes before a single man to show the correct context – that priority goes by obligation, and that Torah is more mizalzel the kovod of bnos Yisrael. Quite the contrary – the Torah describes the Jewish woman as bas melech. Do you see the difference?
*suffer
@joseph correct context would be that in Halacha a man’s life comes first because he is obligated in more mitzvos, or because woman suffer less as they are quicker to give up their life for others. And by pidyon shvuim and with clothing, women come first because they are more tznius and will study more shame.
@ziongate I’ve been accused of that so thanks for the vote of confidence. Btw meant to say mistaken *vegan ideology
Oy avrammd you make good points but you are quite merciless 🙈
And what is so distorted about the above examples of twisted halacha etc.?
Torah is the best thing for us and the world. Its the blueprint and instruction manual for the world. Following Torah is the best thing possible and leads to the best life possible for need and non Jews.
If a frum or not frum woman reads any of what you write and comes to the sad conclusion that a not frum woman leads a better and more fulfilling life than a woman would in a halachic society, that is wrong because it is simply untrue and to imply otherwise by twisting things out of context, is a travesty.
My point is that I can fully agree with you on that. However, fighting these erroneous attitudes with halachos quoted out of context which is also a perversion of the Torahs view of women is like trying to put out fire with kerosene because it’s liquid just like water.
Enjoy this entertainment piece – I came up with it once when thinking about how people can run off with ain haisha ela lyofi to erroneously justify cosmetic surgery for shidduchim or talking to women and telling them they were created to incubate and pop babies because ain haisha ela lbonim.
Those kind of people may read “Ain haisha ela lyofi” and conclude that since “sheker hachein vhevel hayofi”
Women =sheker. And since “midvar sheker tirchak” all people ie men should keep their distance from women.I’m sure you’d agree the above is ludicrous even though I just quoted three pesukim and maamarei chazal. The reason why is because it’s all twisted out of context to imply a non Jewish Islamic hashkofa which isn’t Torah.
If you think the above is anything other than humour I’d advise you to seriously learn pnimius HaTorah as you aren’t getting the hashkofa of Torah on your own.
If you have any questions on this I’ll be happy to answer 🙂
” zero problems with banking or immigration issues since they assumed ownership”
BH glad to hear the feds didn’t see put to go after and financially ruin another yid. Maybe they saw it wasn’t worth it from Rubashkin….
That comment made me cringe as well. Please educate yourselves. I know the Rubashkins personally, and they are so honest and kind and amazing – if you’d like to hear stories I can go on and on.
This sentence was the equivalent of putting someone in jail for 27 years because they didn’t list the 20 dollar bills they made babysitting on their tax form…
They were millionaires and lived in a normal sized house and used their money for chessed. Were so normal and unassuming that you would never know they had money
Just one story- one year erev pesach a man from the community with a large family came running in to the Rubashkins house all stressed out. He frantically told SMR that his fridge broke and doesn’t know what to do. SMR told him not to worry and calmly instructed him to tell leah to give him one of their (2 or 3 hosting over 50 people abd making everything from scratch) fridges.
Anyhow one can unfortunately conclude from halachos quoted out of context that the Torah cvs disrespects women when the truth is completely the opposite – the Torah very much cares for the honour of bnos Yisrael.
BTW since you know Rambam so well in the topic of men and women and you quoted that halacha, please remind me and all of us if a woman comes before A man if there is only one outfit of clothing, and for pidyon shvuim as well? I think it’s both and the reason is because a woman had more shame and tznius than a man
Joseph correct me if I’m wrong but what I’ve inferred from previous posts is that the reason you’re so gung ho about this topic is because you feel the world today disrespects men and Jewish people are falling into non Torah feminist attitudes which are actually vicious against men in some cases, such as the “I can wear whatever I want and you should just look away” disgusting attitude, so you feel got need to correct that. Am I correct?
@WTP fascinating!! Where did you learn that?
@ziongate then we are in agreement. It’s fine to socialise as long as it isn’t just to waste time, or as Joseph says, sorting the breeze.
I learned about mammals etc and think it is wrong to term humans as such, just as we don’t term animals walking plants because they both grow and are alive.this is where the mistaken be a ideology drives from. As I said we are a class above.
We possess an animalistic soul but aren’t meant to become animals.
And bless your soul too:)
@non political would love to hear more on the unique avoda etc.
Did you post that reason before? I didn’t see it. If you did I apologise. I have no problem with the Rambam cvs, I have a problem with you inserting this halacha here in this discussion in response to my bringing and explaining the Zohar that shows how men and women are complimentary and equal. By inserting this halacha here, you imply that you disagree with the above and are trying to rebut it and show that women are sub men.
Hence my response.
This still has nothing to do with the Zohar or with other sources that I brought.
Halacha affects every area of our life and of course in the context of saving a life there needs to be halacha on who to save first. In that same context, a Cohen comes before A Levi who comes before A Yisrael. Yet no one would imply that the essence of a Levi is subpar to the Cohen…
You asked why that halacha is. I told you what I had learned which is not made up just because you haven’t heard it, the same way the Rambam isn’t made up just because I didn’t hear it before. If you’d like I can try to get the source for that reason – id need to reread my notes from the class and if the source isn’t mentioned, contact the Rabbi who gave it.
As far as the Rambams reason, yes that makes sense. Men draw down more hamshachos than women, which is the main avoda at the time of golus, however by the Geulas times, we will celebrate who we are which is more the idea of women – she makes the child Jewish while the man directs the avoda of the child – as is written, “nekeiva tisovev gever.”
We have already entered the era where women’s qualities are being highlighted and appreciated worldwide – the maala of the mekabel as we come closer and closer to the Geula.
Some typos in my previous post : *Mashpia, Mekabel, wife, Torah
I think you have to be extremely cautious in general becuse since men are meant to lead the household, and eizohi isha ksheira osa rtzon baala, a woman can tend to feel Slighted as one of her maalos is that she is a mekabel, open to receiving the influence of her husband, but she can feel she is subpar as is represented by the medrash of the sun and moon.
Sun is Mashpia, moon mekabel. Man is Mashpia woman is mekabel. Hashem created them equally great but when the Nov complained that ee efshar lshtei melachim lhishtamesh bkeser Echad – we both can’t be the leader – Hashem said fine you’ll look smaller. But when the moon crowd over the injustice, Hashem gave it stars (or children where the mother is Mashpia) when the moon said it’s still not fair to be seen as less than, Hashem gave it more and more to compensate until finally He said we should bring for Him a kapara every month for making the moon smaller as it really was intended to be equally as great.
When moshiach comes everyone will appreciate the role and bittul of the mekabel and it won’t be seen as less than anymore in an egotistical world.
Until then be nizhar bkvod bnos Yisrael.
On the topic of the Rambam being nizhar with kovod bnos Yisrael, the Rambam paskens that if there are rumours going around of a girl doing something inappropriate but there are no witnesses or proof, then she is Kasher to marry even the Kohen Gadol, and you can look up the exact reason but I think it is because we have to be extremely cautious of being mizalzel the kovod of bnos Yisrael.
@ziongate I don’t understand what you disagree with. I disagree with the term you used social animals – we are not animals we are a class above. Calling us animals is like calling animals plants.
Aside from that do you disagree with my statement that we are not meant to waste time for the sake of wasting time?“I’m with Chabbadshlucha on this one (though I definitely didn’t need to learn Chassidus to get there) 😀”
Now that my statement was let through allow me to clarify. I don’t think most people here think this way, as can be seen from the conversations. The problem is, it seems although people here are rubbed the wrong way with these statements, it seems that there is no Torah response, which means that the result can be, a “Joseph” can make warped statements, and come away thinking this represents Torah thinking cvs, because the people who cry foul don’t have A Torah response.
I am a bit shocked because I NEVER heard such sentiments from a frum yid before. The reason is, I think, because when you learn the pnimius HaTorah on what men and women represent, you learn about Za and Malchus, Ma”d and Ma”n, Maps and Mekareved, Or Ain Sof and Shechina, you come away with the understanding that these are complementary energies, with each being utterly necessary, and no one being essentially greater than the other. So you will never come to utter such statements in the name of Torah, because you understand that when you see a source that favors one, there will be another that favors the other.
Besides for that, just seeing the way The Rebbe treated his mother and his wife –
He visited his mother every day when she lived near him, and didn’t turn his back to her –
He said that the tea time he spends every day with his wishes was as dear to him as the time he put on tefillin-
No one would dream of saying such things as both from chairs and the Rebbe’s personal example it is clear that Torah is nizhar with the kovod of bnos Yisrael.
And I would think that Joseph and his ilk have their own gedolim they look up to that act in the same way. So that’s why I’m a bit shocked by this kind of rhetoric.
Please quote the Rambam. I don’t see any Rambam quoted here. And what I learned was not made up to fit a feminist algebra. As you can see I have no problem attacking feminism when its attitudes are anti Torah.
Regardless of what the Rambam says, there is a klal that the chachomim were nizhar with the kovod of bnos Yisrael. When you quote a halacha that a man’s life comes first within the context of implying that women are sub men like the Arabs, that’s your issue, not the Rambams.
I’m eagerly awaiting the quote.
Great so we’re in agreement. I also don’t like wasting time with my husband, we strive to learn together or work on meaningful projects or mitzvos. If that was your point you could have just quoted pirkei avos, “Al tarbe sicha im haisha bishto… Kal vchomer beishes chavero.”
And of course with a marriage there needs to be time spent enjoying the relationship but that’s a mitzva not wasting time.
Same with friends. If you play a game to relax so that afterwards you have more energy and mental space to learn or do mitzvos, it’s great.
If your waste time just to waste time that’s problematic.
But you could have just said that.
Yeah sure. Leahs beauty was marred because she cried so much, veinei Leah rakos. She was different than Rochel, Rochel was destined to marry Yaakov and as he was an Ish Tam, she was a tzaddekes from the beginning.
Leah was meant to marry Esav as she had a special ability to transform him -Dina inherited that ability which was why she went out to try to convert /educate the daughters of shechem. As Rashi says, kima kbita she was like her mother who had this incredible power to transform reshaim to tzaddikim. Which is also why Yaakov was punished for withholding her from Esav. Because she could also have caused him to do teshuva.
However, leah understandably did not want to marry Esa, and cried and begged Hashem to allow her to marry Yaakov. Even though she was not his true zivug she succeeded in her tefillos and through her constant tefillos elevated herself through humility and avoda to marry Yaakov. So she had the bitterness of a baal teshuva which is why her beauty did not radiate as much as Rachel s did.
Of course it goes without mention that as she worked so hard on herself, her spiritual level was even higher than Rachel . She merited to have half the shevatim and ended up being the wife that Yaakov spent most of his life with.
Yes how does that contradict what I learned? I suppose my comment before was too sharp to be approved, so I guess I’m glad there are moderators, but this kind of way of reading halacha as seeing women the way the Arabs do, and twisting halacha to defend it is really inexcusable.
Because it won’t hurt the woman as much as she is mentally ready to give up her life more for others. We learned this topic in one of our halachic thought classes.
Interesting, when I learned that class I thought it was interesting but wouldn’t come to any good use as I am not a Rav so what use do I have for it, although it was very interesting. Now I understand why I learned it. Because people can unfortunately so misunderstand the kavana of halacha which used to be clear in past generations. This is one of the reasons why we need Chassidus today – the darkness of golus has grown so great that people can twist the meaning behind halacha horrifically, and this is just one example. I probably would be no different either. Pnimius ha Torah is necessary today because we are in such a dark golus that without it, people can use halacha, the body of Torah, to imply horrible things!😭
@mtab if you want to quote sources maybe you should quote the other side: that Hashem told Moshe ko somar lbeis Yaakov these are the women, see rashi and sifsei chachomim who explain that Hashem saw that when he told Adam not to eat from the etz hadaas, he messed up. So now Hashem wants Moshe to go to the women first to tell them about the Torah first. And in order to motivate them, he should speak softly to the women and they will be inspired, but to the men he had to speak of the harsh punishments.
The Rebbe further clarifies that Adam messed up because the entire yetzer hara was on the one mitzvah he was given. He was also a great man, ytzir kapov shel HKBH, so the yetzer hara was correspondingly great. So no wonder he messed up. Yet, by Hashem saying He should have gone to the woman first, this teaches us that If He had told chava first, then not only would she not have been messed over by the arguments of the nachash, she would also have prevented Adam from sinning.
How bout the fact that the women didn’t sin by chet haegel and the men did? And it wasn’t because they loved their jewellery too much as they were the first to donate it to the mishkan, they eagerly arrived to donate even before the men. See rashi on vayovou haanashim al hanashim.
They didn’t sin by chet hamiraglim either.
What’s my point? Point is men and women are equal, as the Zohar says 2 halves of one whole. The woman is like the heart aNd the man is like the brain. Both are equally vital for the body to function and live. We need both.
Being different there are areas where women excel- namely in emuna, middos etc. The heart stuff- which is why they werent swayed from Hashem, even when rationally it made more sense to follow the erev Rav and the meraglim.
Men excel in the brain stuff- especially Daas. Making the correct logical decisions on tough topics without letting emotion blur the facts. That’s why the men are Rabbonim and need to set the spiritual standard at home.
So you can bring any sources to prove who is better but that is stupidity as each has its maalos where they do better and we need both to have a happy healthy Jewish home and nation, and these kind of arguments or debates are like saying which organ should we cut out of the body, the heart or the brain?
That would miss the whole point and that’s why he isn’t gonna convert.
So how would you define Dovid and Yonasans friendship? And im asking you, even though youre quoting Rabbi Miller, because his point from his own words is not to hock a cheinik with anyone, and you’re bolding some words to make a point that you shouldn’t be friends with a spouse which was definitely not his point.
@kitov that’s an outrageous post- to say it’s great someone sat in jail for 8 years and lost agri processors etc so you can save a few cents…that is assuming that’s even true.
Anyhow, if you want to know, the reason why this is such big big deal is because there is great spiritual significance for all the Jewish people here, and that’s why many Yiddin have been touched from all kreizin.
Rabbi Wolf from maayan Yisrael has some great points on what’s been going on between this and Yerushalayim etc… The voice notes are going around,whoever is curious can get ahold of them. He learns allot and quotes many sources.
anyhow moshiach is definitely coming, and as getzel Rubashkin, SMRs son said that he was working one minute and then he heard the news and had to run to get to his father, without even a minute to change his pants.
The Geula will come the same way – bhesech hadaas, although we are expecting it, just like SMRS freedom, so let’s make sure we are wearing our best Torah and mitzvos “pants” cuz he’s coming very soon and once he does we won’t have time to change our pants, so let’s chap arein and live the best way while we still have the chance
Amazing to see klal Yisrael celebrating together! If this is how it is when one yid goes free, imagine the simcha when we all go free from golus bkarov!!!
edited
There are women’s responsibilities and mens responsibilities. And we can help each other with our responsibilities but we have Different complimentary contributions to the family unit, just as we do physically. Make and female energies complement each other. And it’s just not smart and untrue you say we’re both the same. We clearly aren’t.
Instead of wanting women to be just like men, which is insulting to wonen how bout celebrating being women?