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When you move out to a community to devote yourself to chinuch there. Our kids are important too, not only not yet frum kids.
My brother in law and his wife are on shlichus in arizona. They’re there for the local lubavitch school. They also looked quite awhile for the right fit and are also near one of their parents.
“What’s this business about you speaking to the Rebbe, writing to the Rebbe, and the Rebbe giving you answers and advice? Do you go to his Ohel for these speaking/writing and find a note from him written upstairs in Shamayim and sent downstairs to you in your mailbox?”
Such a topic, if it is to be addressed, must be addressed fully and thoroughly, not in half sentences and half posts. The mods allowed allot more through when I just joined, but now it seems anything they haven’t heard before in their community, even if with Torah sources etc just gets deleted, maybe dependent on the mod. So I can’t address this in such a fashion. If the mods respond to my concern, or they allow you to open a thread on this question, then I’ll be happy to address.
“A couple of questions, Gateshead is a very frum litvishe town in NE England, and right next to it, is Newcastle, a city with very little yiddishkeit. The Chabad shliach in Newcastle sent his children to the litvishe schools in Gateshead. (This was 14 years ago but may still be true.)”
Not sure if this is a question but yes many shluchim will send their kids to the local/ driving distance beis Yaakov etc.
“How would a potential shliach feel about going to a place which is very near a thriving mokom Torah, as opposed to a place which is a genuine hick town in the back end of beyond? Is a Newcastle type place more attractive or does it make no difference to a young couple starting out on shlichus.”
Good question. Depends. Some couples prefer a frum community as it has the amenities of kosher food, Mikvah, schools etc. Some prefer the hick town as the Jews there are more likely to not have any interaction with Jews otherwise. Those of us who go into chinuch shlichus, myself included do feel sometimes that we are kind of missing out on “real”
Shlichus, and have to constantly remind ourselves that this is where Hashem meant for us to be so this is the best thing for us and our surroundings.Case in point, my husband and I looked into Nigeria and China… and ended up in a frum community across the world within driving distance of my in laws, complete with lubavitch chadorim etc. helping out with one of the mosdos. Sometimes it’s hard not to feel inferior to my friends, like the one who is the first to the congo or some other African country. Or my friends on campus. Etc. But this is my shlichus and I’m doing my best to make a difference.
Secondly, how does the OTD rate compare in Crown Heights with the OTD among shluchim?
I don’t know if there has been any case study, but from my personal experience, much much less among shluchim, and pretty much non existent (in my experience) amongst the very chassidishe shluchim. Even the ones who watched movies/ sports at home etc and weren’t the most chassidishe families, their kids are no worse than them and sometimes even better. One case in point: the daughter went on to marry a young man also from same type of background, and they went on to be the Rabbi and rebbetzin of a successful high class United synagogue in the UK. They still have a modern home, but she teaches kallas runs Hebrew school and many more programs and in general is the right fit for their community.
@toi the Zohar says that a tzadik who passes on is found in this world even more than before (as he is no longer limited by a body). The Rebbe continues to give us koach and indoor us to do everything we do. Geordie613+1.
There’s allot more to be said but a) it was already touched on in past threads and b) the moderating has gotten allot stronger in my experience so I probably couldn’t relate the idea anyhow.c) I don’t want to derail the thread and as said, the concept has already been explained elsewhere.
by hp I just finished my post and then my phones pinged with this letter with seems very much directed to you. So here.
*A Jew in Madagascar*
_The following is a freely translated excerpt from a letter the Rebbe wrote in the fall of 1961 to a Jewish woman living in Madagascar._
By the Grace of G‑d
Brooklyn, N.Y.Greeting and blessing:
. . . It was with pleasure that I received regards from you and your husband, through Rabbi Joseph Weinberg, upon the latter’s return from his visit in your community. It was a double pleasure to hear from him about your and your husband’s warm and willing response to the task of unifying the Jewish families in your area and bringing them closer to the practice of Judaism, especially that your husband has taken it upon himself to teach the children, which is of increased importance in our times, for today it is the children who influence their parents.
Certainly you and your husband are aware of the principle of “specific divine providence”—a principle that is a mainstay of our faith in general, and of the teachings of Chassidism in particular. “Specific divine providence” means that every event, great or small, that occurs in the world, whether involving an inanimate object, a growing thing, an animal or a human being, in its every detail and sub-detail, does not occur by chance, G‑d forbid, but is specifically ordained by G‑d as part of His intentions and purpose in His management of the world.
Therefore, it goes without saying that when a Jew finds himself in a distant corner of the world, far from his homeland, far from any established Jewish community, this is certainly not by chance. This Jew should see himself as an emissary of the Omnipresent through whom G‑d’s word may reach also this corner of the world, bringing about an increase of justice and righteousness among all its inhabitants, and spreading the teachings and observances of Judaism among its Jews.
In such a case, one should not look upon the number of individuals that one has the opportunity to influence. Our sages have said, “Whoever upholds a single Jewish soul, it is as if he has upheld an entire world.” If this is true at all times, how much more so does it apply to our generation, after the destruction, Heaven forfend, of such a significant portion of our people. Today, every surviving Jew is a “brand salvaged from the fire” who must not only fulfill his own role, but also take the place of those who perished in sanctification of G‑d’s name . . .
Oot yid – hard to know what to say but better to say something than nothing. Sounds like a really difficult situation you’re in. Can’t offer you how to get out of it because I’m not aware of your exact circumstances and I’m sure you’ve explored your options.
This I can tell you though: we yidden by connecting to Hashem raise ourselves above nature! Even if it looks like you’ll lose out and lose your home cvs because of shabbos, it’s just a test, and if you tracht gut, think good, then vet zein gut, it WILL be good bpoel mammash!! This is the power of Bitachon.
Think of how many of us have big families with average income / skills. Technically, most of us should be homeless cvs, but we aren’t because yidden are above nature. Hashem gives us what we need and He usually makes it work through nature although it’s above nature. I don’t know who you are or how I can help practically but I’m just telling you I’ve been in a similar financial situation when I was just married and my husband decided to go to kollel cuz that’s what the Rebbe said, and at that point they didn’t pay. If they paid, it was 300 a month when rent was over a thousand.
My teaching job in beis Rivkah wouldn’t cover food expenses and rent, and besides, beis Rivkah always paid late so it really didn’t look like a sensible move to live in CH and go to kollel there.
So we wrote into the Rebbe, and got a letter that said that my husband should learn in a place with a Chassidishe seviva. And as far as the Gashmius were worried about, we should know that Hashem will send our Gashmius where it is best for us bruchnius.
So we moved.
And it worked. Every month or so people would approach us and ask us if they could support Torah learning (we are far from the only kollel couple and did not solicit at all) abs we got about 1000 extra a month.
7 months later, the kollel started paying a thousand a month and all the extra offers stopped.
Hashem is real. He will help you. Stay strong!!!
Practically neville, kids of shluchim go to winter camps, summer camps, and kinus together, and summer camp with mainstream kids.Also once they hit high school or Yeshiva, they often go away and dorm in the regular schools. So they’re not cavemen to the regular community.
When I taught in beis Rivkah fifth grade, I had a girl in my class for a week from a far flung community in Canada. Her parents send her to beis Rivkah in CH every year for a week or two so the transition won’t be difficult by high school as shell be familiar with each other. She’s not the only one.
In addition nowadays shluchims kids go to online school together and receive an excellent chassidishe education. In fact, some of my classmates in ninth grade came straight from online school and they were on par with us, and in some ways even advanced.
So educationally they’re fine. Socially the shluchim do their best for their kids as some examples above. Some also will send their kids to the local Jewish school for the secular studies just so they develop social skills, and teach them kodesh at home. Every family sees what their kids need and do their best for them. Bh now there are more resources than ever with online school and conference calls etc then ever before.
OK just for perspective…
About why it works: garelik girl on shlichus in Italy attended a bayis Yaakov where the teacher asked this question and embellished with a mashal. Even if your Yiddishkeit is very warm and strong, like hot water, if you put the hot water in a bowl of cold water and add much more child water than hot, the water gets cold.
Garelik girl answered that yes it’s true but only if the pot is not plugged in. If it is, then the cold water also warms up…that’s the secret of hiskashrus. I heard this story from her brother Rabbi garelik of Crown heights.
On the opposite note, I heard this story but not first hand so could be the details area somewhat off.
Basically a shlucha wrote an upset angry letter to the Rebbe asking why get kids didn’t turn out so well, when the Rebbe guaranteed shluchims children. The Rebbe responded something to the effect of, I never asked you to put those magazines in the bathroom…
Point being if you are on shlichus as a proper chossid and behave as the Rebbe wants, and keep the hiskashrus strong, you’re kids come out all the better. I know many shluchims kids myself, when their parents are chassidim they’re the cream of the crop of lubavitch. Here neville you are mistaken. There are many many case studies of living second generation shluchim today.
But if someone goes on “shlichus” because they like the beachfront say, or even start off well but then compromise their standards to impress balabatim, then the achrayus is on their shoulders.
Or maybe even then it’s on the Rebbe’s as their kids may turn out better than they would have in the ffb community.
Point being, if you are a shliach as in shlucho shel Adam kmoso of the Rebbe, and do your best to lead a life that a chossid should, then the achrayus is on the Rebbe. If you’re not a shliach then there’s no special bracha.
By lubavitch, the Rebbe took the achrayus on his shoulders, and practically we see that whichever shluchim are mekushar to the Rebbe, their kids have a special Brocha with their chinuch. I’ll be happy to elaborate with a story if you’d like.
Outside of lubavitch I think they avoid the issue by moving in groups. So no one is alone in a non Jewish hick town alone.
That’s what I’ve heard but I could be wrong.
Thanks gaon. That was well presented.
“i give you both A++++ on your examples but don’t fool yourselves. ask yourself are you looking forward to the weekly family restaurant date & each week count the days down towards it or is it a pleasure & mitzva to make your family happy?”
You remind me of an important concept I have learned and the path I have taken to apply it.
Basically there are two levels in Avodas Hashem :
1)kol maasecha yiyu lshem shomayim
2) bchol derachecha doeihuWhat’s the difference? By the former, you do everything with Hahem as your final intent. With the latter, everything you do is itself serving Hashem.
Practically, take food as an example.
The first step “lshem shomayim” is that every time you really want to eat yummy food, you make sure that is enjoyment will end up lshem shomayim.
For example, when I used to want to eat Ice cream or anything else I enjoyed, I would use it as a reward for doing something good – usually learning something extra. Good food I would remind myself that I need the energy to serve Hashem. I can’t help enjoying it for itself, but I can channel that enjoyment to be lshem shomayim.
That’s why it’s a mitzva to make delicious food for Shabbos, so that the body too will associate shabbos with pleasure and look forward to it, not only the neshama.
The higher step is bchol derachecha doeihu. That everything Gashmius we do is itself to serve Hashem, just like shabbos food is itself a mitzvah.
So after enough of the former, one can reach the level where the body is used to associating every Gashmius pleasure with Avodas Hashem, and therefore only wants it in that framework – like only wanting to have cake together with the people you’re hosting – to make them comfortable. Only wanting to go to a restaurant to enhance sholom bayis etc.
And if the purpose isn’t there, the food itself isn’t pleasurable anymore.
The body is an amazing tool. We need to work with it to refine it but it’s capable of amazing things and can even elevate our neshama to new heights once we’ve trained it in.
Joseph, children become adults when they are given and expected to take responsibility. Many lubavitcher Rebbeim married at 14 and their wives were probably about that age as well. A 5 year old who knows shell marry about 12 is alot more mature than the five year old of today.
Even in today’s world, our young adults who marry in their early 20s are much more adult than their non Jewish counterparts who live off their parents through their 30s…
BTW Joseph, I believe you asked on a thread that’s been closed why shluchos took this name for themselves – I just saw a sicha where the Rebbe calls the shluchos, shluchos. So it’s not something that originated after gimmel tammuz as you had thought.you’re welcome to see for yourself – Sefer hasichos 5752, chof beis shvat, ois 17.
Non political gave excellent example and it’s not a contradiction. Here’s another two : eating delicious food as part of oneg shabbos.
Rava drinking good wine and meat… To concentrate better on his learning. The key is the intent. Everything in this world is meant to be used for Hashem and thereby elevated which is why the nazir is not the ideal, and neither is living a celibate life for that matter.
No one said we can’t enjoy good food. If I go to a restaurant with my husband to enjoy a night out together and enhance our sholom bayis, there’s nothing wrong with that. Again the key here is intent.
Most self described foodies are not foodies by definition. Most are doing it for parnassa, teaching others how to prepare good food (it’s a talent) etc
I thought of a great theme for your next video as you have a talent for mocking things. How bout making a video mocking the things the yetzer hara tries to get us to do? Like following popular culture, koching in food sports and other Gashmius stuff instead of Avodas Hashem, or any other seemingly innocuous things that lead to worse… How’s that for an idea? Id love to see such a video 😀
By force you mean?
True. I guess I should modify as I just learned about criticising myself and not others. Can a foodie be ehrlich? Guess so if in other areas he behaves as an ehrliche yid. It’s not an aveira.
However I wouldn’t call eating food just for the taste of it ehrliche behaviour. Can we agree on that?
No. If ehrlich means the same to all. If anyone disagrees, please define ehrlich.
The main issue with such a person is not that he enjoys food.the problem is that he doesn’t enjoy Hashem and Yiddishkeit enough….
@gaon interesting.
@wtp if you notice the wording I used is ideals to be admired. Cruelty exists but it isn’t looked up to a an ideal anymore. (Besides in the Muslim world and they would also be ready for moshiach because in their world irs all about serving G-d even if He asks your to do the weirdest Cruel things. They just need to be corrected on what HE wants.)
Science isn’t the absolute god replacing religion as it used to be regarded.
Even immorality – is seen in a confused way – they don’t see objectification of women or assault against them as a good thing (think priestesses of idol worship temples in the past) they just don’t mind if people do what they want as long as they don’t hurt anyone.
But many many of the youth are hurt from this hedonistic lifestyle as if it’s against Torah, it goes against the fabric of the world, so it’s impossible for it to work well.
And there are many voices speaking up against it. Modesty is more in fashion now. So I would say they’re confused but don’t hold immorality as an ideal.
The only places you will probably find that is Hollywood and california, not mainstream goyim, and with the recent scandal even they are rethinking their ideals…
edited
Anyhow this is off topic to put in short –
Yes we are nothing compared to our ancestors (although the world has become a more refined place and is ready for moshiach.)
Avraham frieds song “On giants shoulders” expresses this theme quite well :
“Holy and pure
Our fathers were
Giants, righteous men
We are strong compared to themBut our deeds
Upon their deeds
Together we will bring
Moshiach our kingAnd we will do it brothers
After us there will be no others
You and I will do
What giants wanted toSo stand and take the credit
Golus! Well be the ones to end it
Though were small were standing tall like soldiersRiding high because we’re on our father’s shoulders….
Its up to us
Our fathers started long ago
….
Waiting for us to follow…Great song!
*according to the source I gave you
So I guess we can agree that a non sensical question is not a question but also that Hashem is not bound by any logic abs can do the greatest paradox such as making darkness shine which to us would be nonsense as it’s impossible…
*true and false – sorry for all the auto corrects
@ubiquitin no I get it. What I’m saying is that Hashem isn’t limited to any sort of sense in any paradigm whether the paradigm is working within nature or being above / breaking narrow. Both of those have a certain logic they need to abide by and Hashem isn’t limited by that.
The example of the Aron:
The statement “The Aron takes up space,” is both true abs false at the same time.
Or by Chanukah (according to the source isn’t you.)
The statement “the oil burned” is both true and game at the same time.
Hashem can do the impossible nimna hanimnaos is called.
He can break any logic and be within that logic at the same time.
Of course the biggest paradox is yet to come with the Geula – when our materialistic, physical bodies will see Hashem with no filters, whereas now either we live here and don’t see Him, or Above even the avos etc get to see a limited manifestation of Him or they’d be blown out of existence…
And when moshiach comes, WE as we are physically, will see HASHEM with no filters, not even the filter of being above nature, and yet well just be normal…
!I learned something interesting that applies here: one of the reasons why Hashem spread us through all the countries is so we can take the customs / culture / mannerisms is the country and elevate them by using them in a holy connect (obviously only in a way that is fine halachically.)
That would definitely apply to the attire of the chosson mentioned above, or the way the tables are set, and could apply to the way they come in as well – unless it’s not very Aidel…
A friend of my husband told him not to come in with me to the woman’s section because it’s not a Jewish thing and not Aidel, and so we posed together just outside the door, unfortunately the photographer missed it, and just got me standing there myself
@gaon +1
@oyoyoy if you want me to bring a source for anything I said just ask me and I’ll look out for it next time it comes up
First you said matan Torah and bayis sheini. I was addressing that.
As far as anti semetism yes it is always brewing and an outburst could happen today in America cvs if Hashem didn’t protect us…
Esav sonei lyaakov and the won’t be a complete end to anti semetism until moshiach comes.
That being said there are more Chassidei umos haolam today – there are whole movements of christians United with usual and Jews against anti semetism than ever before – there are also even bnei noach today.
Kindness is valued in the world today whereas it wasn’t in past times. As far as the cossaks etc – yes our Avodas Hashem, Torah and mitzvos has continued to refine the world since then, and bh it is much better.
As for Nazi Germany – the nazis yemach shmom also prided themselves on kindness, education etc on being civilised, but when it came to the Jews, all of a sudden none of those values applied.
But even then the world valued civilised behaviour even as it allowed incredible anti semetism to happen, as it would today if it was allowed.
Moshiach will fix this of course, but today the difference between the world now and eras past is that the world today world be happy to serve Hashem with moshiach as the ultimate civilised, G-dly leader, leading the way.
The days where cruelty, paganism, and even immorality were ideals to uphold are far gone.
So for the matan Torah one just consider our bodies weren’t able to handle the revelation (that’s why our neshamos flew out) and when moshiach comes we will have the greatest revelations from Hashem in our bodies, no problem.
And that will be because we have refined our physicality all these years.
I’m leaving out an important point because it’s not pc but I hope this helps somewhat.
@joseph does it have to be perfect or barbarian to you? It’s a process and yes nothing will be perfect till moshiach comes and Hashem “removes all impurity from the land” but I for one can appreciate the difference between living under the barbaric Roman rule and western democracy today…
And just wanted to clarify, this is NOT an attack on the mods at all – every site has the right to post what they want – just with col for example, I will not post more than happy comments on happy news because I know anything not to their liking is unlikely to go through. Just trying to figure out what’s acceptable so I don’t waste anyone’s time 🙂
Sorry I had another post explaining the matan Torah one but I guess it’s wasn’t politically correct even if there is not one sentence that is incorrect/not true, so the whole thing just wasn’t allowed through (am I getting how the moderating works?) so I’ll try again in a more acceptable post and if it isn’t allowed through, what can I say, it’s hard to answer questions in half statements
I would choose to have the ability to see into the future and know the exact way moshiach and Geula will unfold…
Unless that’ll take the excitement out of it… So maybe also the ability to experience the jewish life and atmosphere from past eras…
Yes I found the hat lining part and the blowing on cold hands to be in good humour 🙂