CS

Avira,
I’m really glad I taught you something new, and that you had the humility to admit it. Now you’re absolutely right that if The Rebbe had passed, and his efforts to bring moshiach would have naturally stalled with that, there’d be no argument. Because that would be lo hitzliach ad ko. The reason why we enjoy picking on the diyuk in Rambam is because in this case, gimmel Tammuz did not at all affect The Rebbes work because it has only increased. And not through a successor but ask Abby Lubavitcher chossid who his current Rebbe is, and he’ll tell you it’s The Rebbe who empowers him in his shlichus and Avodas Hashem today! In this way actually, The Reeves is more alive than every other Rebbe etc today who still won’t take the achrayus of sending single couples on shlichus… in any case, in this case the diyuk very much matters.

Nomesorah,
Firstly thanks for your kind post. About your second post, there’s definitely a hierarchy of things to do to ready ourselves for moshiach, and the whole discussion of who it is is not very important right now outside of within
Chabad.

The important things to do to ready oneself for geula and bring it quicker are: keeping Torah and Mitzvos, learning Chassidus (moshiach told the Baal Shem Tov that he’ll come after his wellsprings are spread out) learning inyonei geula moshiach so one can be a maamin (not a kofer cvs) because it’s impossible to be mechakeh The geula on a daily basis if you have no clue what it’s about. Also then you can start to live in a geula consciousness etc. Reveal the spark of moshiach within you. Get ready to greet moshiach.

Avira

“Of course, the whole remote controlled killing theory is unfalsifiable. Maybe it was the satmar rov who killed stalin? Maybe it was the belzer rebbe? All of klal yisroel were davening for the Soviet union to fall”

So you mean there were also other Tzaddikim familiar in shomayims halls as much as down here, who also led campaigns to kill Stalin at the time it happened? If it was a secret it’s unverifiable, but The Rebbe literally led the Chassidim in a solemn recital of Hu Ra three times which no one understood why. 3 days later, we found out Stalin had died three days earlier. It’s public- at a farbrengen.

Same with everything else I listed, it’s all public stuff not secret closet avoda etc.

“I’m not dismissing the idea of a tzadik being po’el things in shomayim to save klal yisroel, end gezeros, daven for the fall of our enemies, etc…”

That’s great.

“ But it’s not what the rambam is talking about. He’s talking about retaking eretz yisroel, and his example is bar kochva.”

Forgive me but I must’ve missed where in the Rambam discussing criteria for bchezkas moshiach, he says that the candidate must retake Eretz Yisrael? I don’t remember Eretz Yisrael being mentioned at all there. The Romans back then were butchering yidden for keeping Torah and mitzvos, regardless of the fact they were living in Eretz Yisrael, and the Rambam doesn’t tie bar koziba to Eretz Yisrael. Correct me if I’m wrong…

Avira
“And once more, as mentioned ad nauseam, the rambam says that of a messianic candidate doesn’t finish his job, and dies, he is not moshiach at all, he is disqualified. He will not return to “finish” – that’s Christian second-coming ideology, and it’s not Judaism.”

I think you know this already but the Rambam says neherag not mes. Mes includes neherag, neherag doesn’t include mes.

As far as not Jewish, I hope these very Jewish sources will be enlightening… But before I post (separate post), I’ll just say that The Rebbes work is continuing, it has not stopped unlike the pundits who predicted by gimmel Tammuz that within 5 years Chabad will collapse or have a new Rebbe..

Avira, long post so I’ll try to respond one at a time.

“Cs, chezkas moshiach is only personal traits? This is totally off The rambam clearly mentions bringing back yisroel to teshuvah(ALL of them) nd fighting the wars as a chazakah. He has to be hogeh batorah, too”

As mentioned earlier, the first category of moshiach Vadai is עשה והצליח… and even with that The Rebbe has seen hatzlocha no doubt, it doesn’t say asa vgomar etc, but let’s just say we’re talking about bchezkas moshiach- that’s even beforeעשה. והצליח… next.

“Chabad are not the only ones taking over frei shuls; many litvishe and MO rabbis are as well.”

That’s great. And they’re led by our example (I’m sure you know some history ideologically and even practically), and many of their success stories started off with us as well. But yes it’s not a copyright and everyone should join in the effort. Geula is about every yid not just 10%. ואתם תלוקטו אחד אחד

AY possibly but I don’t know about that so I can’t comment

Avira, Stalin was only one example. Here are some more: the assignation of Faisal, King of Saudi Arabia, who posed a big threat to Eretz Yisrael, the miraculous six day war, the gulf war (which could have easily turned into a global war), the end of the Cold War between Russia and US, and the UN committing to use money used for arms for helping other countries with food (וכתתו חרבותם לאיתים) are the few off the top of my head

@amom we did kollel as newlyweds although it made no sense and BH saw miracles… (although we only went that route because we had assurance it would work out). So you’re not alone.

CA I would’ve liked to but unfortunately I’ve seen that when one posts something long, no one bothers to read and it was a long sugya. So that’s why I quoted the relevant soundbite and said see inside for full content

Mdd “Rabbi M.M. Shneerson did not make all or majority of Klal Yisroel go in the derech ha’Torah or rebuild the Beis Ha’Mikdash or did other things which Moshiach is supposed to do. Enough of brainwashing!”

The Rebbe did institute ways/ a structure of personal shluchim to reach every single Jew and bring them closer to Torah and mitzvos. Correct- he didn’t build the Beis HaMikdash- that is within the category of moshiach Vadai which I wasn’t discussing

Avira
“Cs, as i suspected. He doesn’t say a word about a spiritual war. He says it will be won without “him needing weapons”, like how chizkiyahu won wars through prayer, dovid killed golius, etc…as in Hashem will just topple the enemies, without a conventional war.

But it’s very much physical enemies. Not the yatzer hora or avodah zara etc”

Yah you’re right. I meant fight by spiritual means (I guess like Moshe killing the Egyptian with his words) instead of leading a physical weapon campaign etc.

If you noticed I mentioned Stalin. Also The Rebbe predicted the fall of the Soviet Union before Gorbachev was considering it and directed Eretz Yisrael to prepare housing for all of the immigrants who would leave… which seemed preposterous at the time… until it happened. There were other physical wars also that The Rebbe fought on a spiritual plane as well if you want them enumerated lmk

A gutte voch from my locality.

Avira DeAra I’ll post the source from igros Moshe, that you think is a complete fabrication… then if you’re interested I’ll explain Yakov lo mes concept although it’s off topic.

Back to topic, For me, it’s not a chiddush that Lubavitchers think The Rebbes moshiach because he’s our Rebbe, and that was normal practice back in the day when there were more real Tzaddikim (as in Tanya definition) I’m just wondering if anyone else has another current leader in mind as a suitable candidate.

It’s not my “giant leaps of reinterpretation” as you put it. For example (just one) Rav Moshe Feinstein says that moshiach doesn’t necessarily need to fight physical waters, but spiritual wars can fit the bill… That’s one example…

Not necessarily. Gimmel Tammuz is just the accepted, most comfortable term Lubavitchers use, and
I use it too. (A more complex answer would explore the theme of Yaakov lo meis although chantu chantaya etc.)

So answer to op so far has been The Rebbe. Anyone else anyone else is considering someone else?

“ I’ve asked this of many lubavitchers after building a friendly rapport; the conversation never ends with a simple “no.” Not once.”

That’s actually amazing although in many schools today there’s no education on the topic (I was lucky I asked for it in high school), so I wouldn’t be surprised if you’d get an ignorant no from my generation. But after learning the sichos and shiurim myself, it’s not really possible to think otherwise. (I’m not learned enough to define hakachic status such as bchezkas moshiach and Vadai etc to The Rebbe) it seems the basis for it all is logically understanding what The Rebbe said, not the halachic status. So whether The Rebbe lost his halachic status as bchezkas moshiach etc after gimmel Tammuz, or whether Chassidim doing The Rebbes work is a halachic continuation etc, regardless, The Rebbe will eventually manifest the halachic status because the process of Geula, led by The Rebbe has already begun.

CA- thanks!

the Zohar (Midrash Ne’elam – Toldot 140a), and the “Leshem Shevo v’Achlamah”(Drushei Olam HaTohu, 2:4:12:9-12)

Moshiach can come any day we are zoche as Eliyahu Hanavi told Rabbi Yehoshua Ben Levi he’ll come- hayom (Im tishma bkolo). These are dates that if it didn’t happen before, are auspicious based on their timing or where the world will be at etc. To me what’s special about the Zohar , is that it lists other times that have come true, such as “the opening of the waters (wisdoms) of below and above” that happened at the time of the revelation of Chassidus/ the industrial revolution, if you know what I’m referring to (happy to elaborate if not)

Also does the whole 6000 thing come from the Zohar as well or is it gemara? Regardless, it gives me hope that the next few years leading up to and including 5790 are especially potent times for moshiach to come.

In the Zohar it says that since we were in mitzrayim for 210 years, Hashem will deduct 210 from 6000, and moshiach will therefore come in 5790

The only true existence is Hashem, as we say ain od milvado. Not just that there is no other god or power aside from Hashem, but there is nothing else that exists at all. The only life in this world is Hashem’s lifeforce as it says ki imcha mekor chaim. See shaar hayichud vhoemuna of Tanya for more understanding on this or ask. Luckily a very real part of your identity is the part of Hashem within you, and that really does exist. The yetzer hara part of your identity is just an illusion which will eventually be revealed as fraud. Hope this helps

Also the Medrash that says the Geula will come with refuah (which is why the word anochi is used by both.) one of the commentaries asks what does Geula have to do with refuah? He doesn’t know the answer but we may soon!

Also, corona from crown and from koran or pnei Moshe in parshas ki sisa which is when it really started affecting us.

Crown because our avoda is to get ready to coronate Melech HaMoshiach with the real crown.

Koran Or- the light was so intense for the world that a mask was needed for the revelation. Could be the world is receiving very lofty G-dly revelations but isn’t yet a fitting vessel for it so it’s temporarily showing up in a negative way and practically people are wearing masks.

Anyhow the main thing is we should see the Geula with Melech HaMoshiach ASAP and all of Klal Yisrael and Chasidei Umos Haolam should have a refuah sheleima!!

*rabbeinu

And if it seems radical that Hashem is speaking through a Rebbe in today’s day and age, just remember when we’re talking about a Rebbe here, we’re talking about a tzaddik who has completely transformed his yetzer hara to another yetzer tov as explained in Tanya. Not everyone who carries the title of Rebbe is the type of Rebbe that the Rebbe was talking about.

Kcup if no one posts the meaning and context of that quote I can for you according to my simple understanding. I’m not as well versed in chassidus as I’m sure some of the men here are. So I’d prefer they type it up but if not I’ll post for you iyH.

Yes it was discussed. I don’t know how to post the link though.

Ramdomx where do you get kings of Israel and king Solomon etc.? Sound like great games but I never heard of them.

There’s nothing hateful about it. What would be worse- when Muslims beat their wives or when simple Jews beat their wives (in the past)? Something closer to home hurts more. Because you esteem and value the simple Jews it hurts more that they mistreated their wives. The Alter Rebbe suffered more when a fellow Jew who has a chelek Eloka Mimaal , opposed chassidus , then all the time he spent in jail. His host served him tea as a guest and then berated him for a few hours over the changes he made for chassidus. It pained him more to hear these accusations coming from the mouth of a precious well meaning fellow Jew than from the coarse gentiles who has interrogated him before. Nothing hateful there.