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Gadol hadofi- thanks for the correctionđđť.
Gadol hadofi, you mean that by shavuos, the main Korban was bread, and every other time it was on the side?
Whether the Israeli government is dysfunctional or not is irrelevant. If itâs not a Torah government (led by moshiach), itâsa tragedy. EY is not just another place Jew can live- itâs Eretz HaKodesh!! And if itâs not treated that way then you feel golus even more strongly there.
Gadolhadofi- thank you. Do you know then what was unique about the shtei halechem brought on shavuos?
Avira- agreed. But stam goyim are not idol worshippers, and I remember learning that goyim are not commanded on lyachado and so shituf is ok by them. Iâm very sorry that I couldnât immediately find the source (pretty sure itâs Rambam), but maybe one of the learned posters could find it.
Ujm- for yidden- certainly. But goyim arenât commanded on lyachado-AFAIK. Do you know of a source otherwise?
Ujm thatâs questionable (for goyim) as many hold theyâre allowed to believe in shituf (which c would fall under)
Hey nothing wrong with ego (bread). In fact after the refinement of sefira, we bring it in the Beis HaMikdash, the only time chometz is brought to the best of my knowledge. But unrefined ego is a different story
Nomesorah
âThe Rebbe was adamant that lag baomer was not the day rashbi died. âSource?
But just to add some explanation, I remember learning in one of the sichos something fascinating on this topic:
Really, the Torah has all in the info in every field, however, most people donât know where to extract the info they need from the vast sea of Torah.
When people study a secular course on a topic, they become arrogant as they feel themselves a master of the subject, whereas when one learns Torah, the more they learn, the more humble they become (unless theyâre learning for improper reasons in which case the Torah can cvs become a ×Ą× ××ת). because they realize how little they knowâŚ
Thatâs what I remember learning, and what I take from that is that itâs not the actual science thatâs the issue, the issue is the presentation. When a goyishe source presents it, itâs as its own wisdom, and the more you know, the more you feel in control of the outcome. When you learn Torah, you feel this is the Torah of Hashem, and this knowledge is just one of the many ways He can choose to work, so youâre left affected completely differently.
To the last few posters, some of you are reading half the sentence and others are dismissing. I was just quoting Tanya likkutei amarim, end of perek 8. Feel free to look it up.
AAQ
âBtw, Chofetz Chaim says that, yes, children in our times (1920s) are upset when parents tell them something, but Eliahu will come soon and will explain to children that parents have their best interest in mind and theyâll love their parents for their direction.âI was never upset at my parents for what they told me- I just wanted to learn more to see if they were right/ make it my own.
Btw The Rebbes explanation on the above Gemara (in sotah right?) is that we can fulfill it in the positive- children will be chutzpadik by urging their parents to do more Torah and mitzvos than they were doing already, and thatâs also what Rashi means when he writes âvheishiv lev avos Al bonim- Al yidei bonim.â
Avira, according to what I remember (which may be wrong) lo sichanem applies to idol worshippers, akum. Can you bring any quote from the Rambam etc that says that it applies to stam goyim as well?
Even with the nations we are commanded to destroy, if they take upon themselves the 7 mitzvos, thereâs no Mitzvah to kill them.
AAQ
Just to clarify, we did not spend years studying about the identity of moshiach- thatâs not such a long sugya. We spent years studying about the era of geula- how it will be, what we can do to hasten itâs coming, and as a side note- yea we kind of got into the identity piece but didnât fully flesh it out. Probably at least half of that puzzle I learned on my own time.Avira itâs in kuntres beis Rabbeinu shebabavel, heora 60.
See inside for contextYes The Rebbe didnât say most goyim⌠check the quote.
Marxist
I think the point is that Jews tend to think that if they would just assimilate a bit or completely, anti semitism would disappear. So the Holocaust is proof that that isnât true. The same thing happened by golus mitzrayim: the Jews thought by worshiping the Egyptian gods, the Egyptians would be brotherly. But instead they got even more annoyed to the point that the Jews were described as thorns. Then they enslaved them.
I just looked up the notes to perek Aleph Tanya- where The Rebbe notes. Itâsa bit different than what I wrote so here it is:
âWhen a Jew acts in a benevolent manner, he is motivated mainly out of concern for the welfare of his fellow. The proof of this is that were his fellow not to need his help, this would give him greater pleasure than the gratification derived from his act of kindness.
Concerning the nations of the world, however, this is not so. Their motivation is not the welfare of their fellow; rather, it stems from a self-serving motiveâthe desire for self-glorification, a feeling of gratification, and the like.
It should be noted that among the nations of the world, there are also to be found those whose souls are derived from kelipat nogah.33 Called âthe pious ones of the nations of the world,â these righteous individuals are benevolent not out of selfish motives but out of a genuine concern for their fellow.â
Nomesora, how is it a theory, if it has multiple citations? Rashbi was nistalek while revealing tremendous secrets of Torah, and weâre celebrating those revelations which lead us towards geula (as is known the quote about the Zohar). But hey, if you find Lag Baomer Meaningful for other reasons, please share.
I forgot that The Rebbe chose Lag Baomer as a parade day to inculcate Jewish pride, and thatâs another theme of the day today in Lubavitch.
I love this discussion. We wonât lose out on anything when moshiach comes, in fact our houses will fly with us to EY. As for me, to remind myself that I have only aT-home, I say tefillas haderech after lmaan tizkor (without Hashem Name)
I wouldnât want to live in EY now though, unless my shlichus is there, because the year I was there, I found it very painful to see it in a golusdike state, when this is the holiest land on Earth. But Iâm not living in chul because I love chul, itâs only to do my avoda here so that I can live in EY The way itâs meant to be
Avira,
Interesting.
âAnd some yekkishe rabbonim quote the meiri. In their timw and piece, it was advantageous and itâs not clear how seriously they meant it. â. I find this line of thinking dangerous because that could throw all of their Torah into doubt, (meaning if we know they paskened differently than what they would have, due to goyim.) is that what you meant?âBack to lo sichanem; if we donât go with the meiri, we have no shailoh;â
Iâm pretty sure the Rambam holds it applies to akum specifically, at least thatâs whati remember from fifth grade studying for chidon.
âI disagree, though, that stam goyim wish to make the world a better place. Many say that they do, but you of all people know what the Tanya says at the end of the first perek about chessed leâumim chatas, which is why Iâm surprised at your stance on this issue.â
If you look up The Rebbes notes in lessons in Tanya on perek Aleph, he says (and Iâm paraphrasing because I canât look it up at the moment) that most goyim
today are chassidei umos haolam (although in the past, they didnât) and my personal experience with the goyim Iâve interacted with is that they are looking to be good people and altruistically do kind things for others etc.I would like to see the exact phrase and maybe Iâll post when I can, because chassidei umos haolam are determined by accepting upon themselves to do Sheva mitzvos, and because Hashem gave it to Moshe Rabbeinu on har Sinai. My instinctive understanding is that their souls now derive from klipas nogah, making altruism possible, but Iâd have to look at it better
Avira, I was under the impression that lo sechanem only applies to akum, ie idol worshippers. I would assume it definitely doesnât apply to chassidei umos haolam (your welcome to show me otherwise) but what about Stam goyim who believe in making the world a better place (and donât worship idols)?
Nomesora,
I didnât make it up, The Rebbe said it. See https://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/general/1734395/over-10000-converge-on-the-lubavitcher-rebbes-ohel-for-lag-bomer-photos.html
If youâre referring to other points, thereâs sources for all. Just wasnât sure what exactly you thought was theory
Whatâsa theory
*Chabad (not Chana)
AAQ
âCS, depends on the college, major and how you pursue it.If you choose a technical major in a local or online college, use CLEPs and yeshiva classes for electives, you are mostly studying livelihood-related subjects. Parents should be able to guide you around things you donât need to listen.
If you are going for a liberal arts degree in a fancy college while living in a dorm, then you get a lot of problems inside and outside of the classesâ
True there are differences. When I checked with my mashpia after marriage regarding the TTI program where you can use credits from Jewish higher educational schools, and learn specific classes at home, and then take tests, I was told that Rabbi Heller has said that TTI is not what The Rebbe meant when he was against college.
That being said, the Alter Rebbe discussing how one is metame his brain with learning secular knowledge unless he uses it for kedusha like the Rambam and Ramban. So itâs what to tread carefully with.
When I was in school the curriculum was as such that we had to read goyishe novels. Most times I was able to convince the teacher etc to let me read a Jewish novel and write on it instead. Twice they forced me to read their curriculum and I was thoroughly revolted. And these were approved books. Imagine the others. But when someone exposes themselves to such stuff on a regular basis they donât even see the shikutz of it
AAQ
To address this from a different angle,
â Maybe it will help us (and you yourself) understand your position better if you could describe how it came to your mind to spend time speculating about who M might b. Did you read it in sichos?â
Yes
âa yeshiva teacher?â
Yes, we learned all about many things about moshiach and geula in an inyonei geula umoshiach shiur. For 4 years, in addition to time spent learning outside of school.
your parents?
A bit but no explanationa Gemora?
Yeah of course. The 4 yeshivos who promoted their RY as a likely candidate.something in Tanach?
The whole Nach is full of moshiach and geula, and of course in Torah thereâs the Mitzvah of ir miklat which was never yet fulfilled, so thatâs proof for geula, as well as the nivuah of bilaam. But I havenât seen in tanach anything about identifying moshiach. Sources for that would be mainly that Gemara above, and the Rambam. And of course if youâre expecting the Geula at any moment (whoever isnât is deemed a kofer actually) then itâs only natural to look out for anything related including his identity.AAQ as stated, I didnât start this thread and would have been happy to post a several word answer. By
me itâs not speculation. Itâs already knowledge as I already have a clear picture of whatâs going on based on the sources Iâve learned. But that doesnât need to be relevant to you necessarily unless youâre interested. It is really insiderâs knowledge that only belongs to those who see The Rebbe as a tzadik and his words as Torah, which is something I have seen I cannot unfortunately expect from everyone. Which is why I have quoted other sources here.Avira, itâsa family thing. Iâm guessing youâre familiar with the Rashi riu gidulim shehgidaltem. The Rebbe is our father (Avi Avi rechev Yisrael) and we naturally donât want to bring him shame. I havenât seen any sichos on this- itâs just sensible. I donât why other groups arenât similarly inclined. You tell me.
Avira obviously kiddush Lubavitch does not replace kiddush Hashem. Itâs in addition. Not everything that would be a Chilul Lubavitch is necessarily a chillul Hashem. Say, going to college. I donât know. Anything The Rebbe said to do and a chossid disregards, and of course itâs much worse if itâs also a chillul Hashem cvs.
My understanding of Lag Baomer is that itâs a special day of the revelation of Pnimiyus HaTorah, achdus and a very special day for spiritual growth and also to daven. In Chana it is also a special day that The Rebbeim would give brachos and especially for children. We go to Meron but can also as easily go to The Ohel since their neshamos are connected
People will have different opinions and thatâs fine as long as they are Al pi Torah. BH there are many Jews of all stripes who appreciate Chabad and our Rebbes work
It is more accepted after marriage, although I was told that people should really think if they need it before taking the specific course etc. after marriage. Many professions today do not require a bachelorâs to do, and many people get a degree for parnassa and do not even end up using/ needing it. Me and my married siblings all are working at different professions and we all donât have any use for a degree (one of my brothers is a ceo of a company).
Gadol gadofi
âIsnât it ironic that the Rebbe had an advanced secular education but his chassidim are forbidden from doing the same?âAside from the main answer, If youâre talking about today, they definitely give an advanced education on gender confusion, all kinds of forbidden relationships etc. Do they even teach anything normal today in college? Just curious
AAQ, I have no problem with anyone suggesting a serious candidate that differs from my own. I do not expect anyone not Lubavitch to accept The Rebbe as Moshiach. I wouldâve been happy to come and answer the op and say, the Lubavitcher Rebbe. Whoâs yours?
The only reason I write more is because people seem to think that I have no right to think my own Rebbe is Moshiach even though many people and of course Chassidim think he fits the bill.
When moshiach reveals himself to everyone, everyone will accept him and i could explain how based on personal experience, if you wishâŚ
Gadol hadofi, Iâm sorry I think yes or no answers are a disservice as people can misread the intention⌠so I wonât be taking you up on your offer
Just to comment on the discussion with nomesora, it is known that pnimius HaTorah is likened to fire and nigle to water, so it imbues those who learn with fire as well, whether theyâre just starting or not. And hiskashrus to a tzaddik infuses one with chayus in avodas Hashem, so when you put them both together it makes sense youâll get a double dose of excitement for
everything Hashem, Rebbe and Torah relatedLike we found by Moshe that he went up to the firmament as body and soul, and remained there for 40 days, so to it will be with the Moshiach after
he merits to that neshoma and recognizes himself that he is Moshiach, as it states Moshiach will be revealed but he still won’t be recognized by the rest of the people, and afterwards the Moshiach will be concealed in body and soul in the same way that Moshe entered into the cloud…
( Ohr Hachama on Zohar Shemos 7b, quoô°ng Râ Chayim Vital, zâl.)It is explained elsewhere that â[the verse] âMoshe entered into the cloudâ means that he separated from the maâ
terial bodyâ.
Ohr Hachama, Mishpatim 99a.(This isnât the part relevant to my vision/ dream. For the whole fascinating discussion of how our bodies will look by Moshiachâs time along with the list of sources, please see Edited)
The nekuda is that everyone will shed their flesh bodies (remove your shoes) and be left with our original bodies, the tzelem Elokim before Chet etz hadas, which was so luminous that it darkened the sun as is known)
As for my question about Aharon, Iâm surprised it wasnât obviously obvious, but since it seems it wasnât clear- OBVIOUSLY i donât think Aharon was stupid or harbored strange beliefs etc. for believing in the words of his Rebbe Moshe Rabbeinu who had told everyone he was coming back⌠and Iâm gonna leave it at that for now, because what I was alluding to was a separate topic.
Avira
âCs, i do not believe that such an Arizal exists, because if it did, it would have been discussed here at some point, or one of the dozens of Lubavitchers who Iâve debated with would have told me, or i would have seen it in the messianic literature.But I know very few maamarim of the Arizal, so please let me know if you find something like that, and weâll discuss it.
I do appreciate your tone though; itâs refreshing.â
So, I did find some fascinating stuff (the most fascinating of all to me personally is that it accords/ confirms a personal vision in a dream I had of moshiach that I had a couple years back after I had asked to see moshiach after some work I had done⌠so Iâm very grateful I saw this.) Iâm not gonna look it up in the original because I have an exact quote, but youâre welcome to look it up in the original and of course let us know if thereâs anything missing/ wrong. And thanks⌠Iâll post below