Chabad Shlucha

Yb:
“—————-
A mistake is just that – a mistake. Does it have to come from yetser hara ? Maybe it is just human to make a mistake ? Does a tsadiq from tanya know EVERYTHING ?

Tanya himself says clearly that hahmei hazal do not know everything . So they cannot be tsadiqim ???”

When a Gadol BYisrael makes a mistake, it impacts the people around him that are depending on him innocently. So he has extra siyata dishmaya to make the right psak etc. I think it’s the Chazan Ish who has a story like this.

That doesn’t mean they know everything. Even Neviim only know what Hashem reveals to them.

YB,
Post 1. What promises weren’t fulfilled? It seems that was your point. And yes I am teeny tiny CS. On much greater shoulders.

Ard

“and you didnt answer your self contradiction”

Which was?

DY:

“Those who know The Rebbe say not…

Not all…”

Let me make this crystal clear:

Did The Rebbe cvs publicly convert to another religion (shabtai tzvi and others)?

Did he eat Chelev publicly or use the Shem HaMeforash?

No! Ok? I hope that’s clear enough. No need to insult the Rebbes honour like a non tzaddik.

DY:

“You think Trump runs America
Don’t put words in my mouth.
He runs America the same way the Rebbe used to run 770.

and The Rebbe doesn’t run anything.
What logical reason would one think a person who is in the עולם האמת runs anything in any sense?”

As stated, The Alter Rebbe writes that a tzaddik is MORE present in THIS world after his passing, by virtue of his Emuna, Ahava and Yirah which are always present for his mekusharim. For practical examples, which ujm asked for, see my reply to him earlier on this thread with some personal examples

Yserbius,

“Thanks @daas-yochid for saying what I was going to say. @chabad-shlucha did answer my question, in a way. She confirmed that Chabadskers are unaware of how they are perceived by the other 95% of frum Jews. Like I said, it’s not just like how a Chussid may view a Teimani, or how a Lakewooder sees Teaneck. It’s straight out unanimous from the highest Rabbonim criticism that what they are doing and believe in is wrong and should not be emulated under any circumstances.”

We are very aware and that’s why up until recently there was a corresponding lack of respect and mention of those leaders within Lubavitch. We have a strong and powerful Mesora which goes back all the way to Har Sinai. If The Rebbe gets flack when introducing mivtzoim, that causes us to respond in kind as far as attitude. For us, it’s like watching anyone from a Shnooky Shapiro to Hashem’s anointed Shaul, who was struck with madness after failing his mitzvah etc, mess around with Dovid HaMelech.

The only reason Chabad is now including other Jewish approaches, both in Chana Weisbergs podcast and Dovi Paltiels etc, is because there is a new spirit of Ahavas Yisrael towards us from those groups.

We were never isolated though. Chacham Eliyahu, Rav Lau, Rav Moshe Feinstein and many many others had warm relationships with The Rebbe. There’s a Sefer documenting all of them in Hebrew if you want to look into it.

Likewise, The Rebbe and Lubavitch care for all yidden. Rebbetzin Chaya Mushka was concerned about the children who had history that the principal Mrs Vechter knew, since she was leaving her job and fleeing to Eretz Yisrael with her husband who almost lost his life. My Rebbetzin was concerned about the children of the community where the killers were supported, that they shouldn’t lose out from a hasty takeover.

DY:

“That’s a distortion of what he said.

Because you have a distorted view of what Moshiach is”

Repeat that back to yourself. Bravo

DY:

“Wow. The gaavah and stupidity is amazing. You think Moshe Rabbeinu needs to be set up.”

Apparently you missed the part about Moshe Rabbeinu learning from the back of Rabbi Akivas class. Don’t you know that even the Avos will learn from Moshiach? That’s a good thing! You want them to be bored?!

Ard,

“cs- did the rambam learn chasidus and if not how will he understand moshiachs torah?”

I don’t know what you know about Gan Eden so it’s like this. Every man gets to learn according to what he learned in this world by teachers appropriate to his level and he continues to grow in Ahavas and Yiras Hashem. Since The Rambam is a tzaddik, I’m sure he’s in with Rashbi, the Arizal, Baal Shem Tov etc clan, as part of his regular chevrusos, so he’s ready to learn from Moshiach because he never stopped learning.

YB:

“1] Can you point to where in tanya it says that a tsaddik of Tanya is INFALLIBLE ?”

A tzaddik is totally in line with Hashem’s Ratzon, so his “mistakes” don’t come from yetzer hara but are also directed by Hashem (remember Aharons argument to the malach hamoves?) There is a rare scenario of a tzaddik not advancing in his avodas Hashem, and slipping to do an aveira (like Yochanan Kohen Gadol), but it would be obvious as the Posuk states ba zadon vayavo kalon.

For a regular YB to think HE knows, or anyone that didn’t top The Rebbe in yiras shomayim, knows, that The Rebbe made a mistake, because He knows better, is utter foolishness, but just arrogance and bizui TC. I hope that clarifies.

“2] Can you point to any source acceptable to all hugim in Yahadut that your leader qualified as a Tsaddiq of Tanya ?”

Is there any public widely known instance of The Rebbe doing any aveira? Those who know The Rebbe say not… besides for the sheer holiness etc

“3] Is the concept of ‘tsadiq of Tanyah’ widely accepted in Yahadut – outside of the hasidi circles ?”

The Alter Rebbe is widely accepted. How many tzaddikim of Tanya there are today is a different question which I cannot answer. I keep my nose out for them.

“4] Is the tsaddiq of Tanya explanation the only available one to explain the relevant ma’amarei hazal ?”

Not sure what you mean. And even if it is, it answers.

“5] If there exist other explanations , how are they more deficient in actually explaining the relevant ma’amarei hazal when compared to the Tanya’s [besides that they will not serve the habad cause]”

No one is making you become Chabad. As for me, it’s my honour and privilege.

“6] Why do you employ the condescending attitude that it is the opposite side who has ‘go and learn’ ?
Maybe it is actually YOU who should ‘go and learn’ ???”

See the answer to 1, and you’ll know why.

CA

“No we don’t believe moshiach is Elvis, Elvis died (some people don’t think so) but what we believe is that if moshiach was going to come from the dead (which is highly unlikely) he could be from the thousands of tzaddikim that lived before the rebbe”

That does have a base in Torah, although we hold (like the Rambam) that the person suited to be Moshiach is the person who did the work to get his generation to be the one to tip the scales and bring Geula. And in that sense, The Rebbe is very much alive. Yechi HaMelech:)!

“It’s like this. Remember Bnei Yisrael protested that the Torah is for everyone and shouldn’t be just for shevet Levi? So as Rebbetzin Vechter put it when her husband revealed to her that he was teaching her TheRebbes Torah, “If this is what I thought I’d go to Gehennom for learning, it’s worth it!!””

Tell that to any missionary and he laugh you out of town because that is his reasoning too

DY:
“It sounds like you’re afraid to explain in plain English….
I wonder why…

Not singing Yechi about a person who was niftar is actually normal and sane.”

As you can see, I’m not afraid. Not everything is suited to this forum. I totally get you don’t understand Yechi. You think Trump runs America and The Rebbe doesn’t run anything. You have no idea what Moshiach and Geula are all about. If you really want to get educated, start with the basics. You will never understand yechi otherwise. It’s much more advanced. I can give you sefarim recommendations if desired. (And understanding Yechi is not important. But knowledge of Moshiach and Geula is necessary).

Ujm-
“ I seem to recall that CS has posted on this forum (and I’ve seen similar comments by other Lubavitchers elsewhere, in case I’m misremembering regarding CS), people who were born after the Lubavitcher Rebbe was niftar, saying that had some sort of big/serious shaila and they (somehow) asked the Rebbe what to do, and the Rebbe answered him/her to do X, Y and Z.

That’s what I’m trying to understand”

I gave you many examples from my life. You may have missed it. Check pages one and two. Could be I directed it at Joseph

CA:

“ One of the things that yiddishkeit is known for is that we don’t proselytize to get more people to join our faith, because when you have the truth you don’t need to force other people to agree with you

When it comes to these chabad threads it seems like the Lubavitchers start them so they can be “understood and accepted” something that yiddishkeit doesn’t do

It gets one wondering…..”

My experience was that I came to ywn to explore another Jewish world and found Chabad constantly misrepresented, so here we are… but honestly I’ve learned a lot from you guys. You may be much more ignorant than us in pnimius haTorah but the current state of affairs is that Lubavitcher is living in the cognitive dissonance of trying to bring The Rebbe back while not actually DOING it, and litvish sincerely want Moshiach someday sometime, and think he’s some kind of Elvis (whatever that means…)

It only takes one person to bring Moshiach because the tasks are all layed out, so I will definitely succeed. I just want it to take faster. Hard to get people on board sometimes. If I do reveal myself in this way to Lubavitch to get them on board, it would have to be a different method. Not as personal. They may as well take Moshiach from the litvaks.

DY:

“ I don’t think you are right about this. Who allows asking a Nistalek for a bracha (at the kever or not)? There is a difference between asking the nistalek to intercede and asking the nistalek for a bracha. The problem is further compounded when the nistalek is believed to “run the world like Trump runs America.”

I’m sorry you believe Trump runs America. SAD!

Non political,

“ Neither of the above sounds like what CS is describing.”

The Alter Rebbe writes that tzaddikim are more present in this physical world after their passing. You think you know better?

Ard:

and what i meant in the later was that even though every single other gadol says the rebbe is dead and buried and certainly not mashiach, chabadskers still hang on delusionally and even try to missionize others. also they dont teach their kids about other gedolim (how many kids in bais rivka knew who r’ chaim kanievsky was?) and in general put aside any torah other than chabads.

I agree with you on this. Check out Dovi Paltiels new podcast on chabad.org.

Yserbius:

“@CS I’m not attempting to make a substantial point. You said this is an open floor for questions about Chabad and I’m curious about the answer to mine. Are Chabaskers in general aware that many of their practices, beliefs, and customs (and they acceptance they have of others with certain beliefs etc.) are considered to be outside the norm of frum Yiddishkeit by the vast majority of the frum world?”

Yes, just like every other group of frum yidden.

“ @CS If you want me to be more specific, let’s take the idea that Rav Schneerson ZT”L watches everything his Chassidim do from his place in Olom Haba’ah and therefore he can answer bakoshos. Although there is some basis to this, it’s considered highly irregular by frum Jews and you will not find a non-Chabad Talmid Chacham who would recommend keeping a dead man in mind when davening. And that goes even more so to the people who direct their teffilos to using a dead man as an emmisary instead of talking directly to Hashem, which is something considered acceptable in most of Chabad.”

Not acceptable during davening. No one teaches to have The Rebbe in mind during davening. Well known that The Rebbe protested when chassidim got distracted and looked at him during davening.

DY:

Me: Part 2: because they know of the Dvar Malchus and still lack gaon Yaakov

“Please explain”

Meaning the men live in cognitive dissonance of believing The Rebbe is Moshiach but not actually bringing him. For example, singing yechi is mostly banned. The palace for Moshiach is stuck in red tape. There is no widely accepted psak din regarding The Rebbe and Moshiach, and there’s still “2 sides” of tohu and tikkun when they’re meant to be combined harmoniously. Talk to a Lubavitcher in person for further info.

YB:
“ Your crooked theology has [and will further] give fuel to Xtian pretenses to make unsuspecting Jews accept the messiahship [and worse] of their discredited idol.
You [plural] have never taken all those serious issues by the horns…”

I’m sorry that to you, Moshiach is xtian. That’s actually apikorsus.

“Only once you will be prepared to internalize that this person was a fallible human , prone to mistakes and subject his personal negi’ot, notwithstanding his many talents and mesirut nefesh, only then we will be able to see a possibility to have REAL open and honest, evidence based discussion of all of the above.
Until then we will have to suffice with shallow responses, change of topics, misplaced claims of victimhood and occasional jokes.
But not a serious discussion.
Haval.”

Apparently you never met a Tzaddik of Tanya. Sounds like the Yanuka and Modzitzer Rebbe may qualify. Go and learn.

CA:
“ or someone who thinks they know what Torah will be like when moshiach comes and whatever it is, it’s (Lubavitch) chassidus”

I’m sorry you don’t. That’s a personal choice and I respect your decision to remain ignorant (I guess you never heard of the famous story with the Baal Shem Tov and Moshiachs Neshama.)

“Interesting enough, in the circle magazine the main feature is about the people that still think shabtzai tzvi is moshiach and coming back”

Just because stupid people who think a rasha who publicly “converted” r”l could still be Moshiach, it doesn’t mean smart people who believe Moshiach is a real figure per generation are wrong (think it’s in the Chida)(we still live with TheRebbe although there may be 2 more potentials born since assuming yichus is right as per the Rambam.)

Lostspark:

“ Ok here are some more for you not to answer:
How many more days to go?”

Not sure. Unexpected st (satan tackle) games came up with finishing the process both with myself and 10 others unfortunately. But good news in Israel BH. We will win!

“Whom are you referring to as the “true Moshiach”?”

That I shall not answer for now.

“Which Zohar/chassidus gave you nevuah on your three day estimate?” Hoshea (2:6?). But I misunderstood the st game factor. It’s all fine. We will win!

“Does your husband know you forgot to take your pills?”

I wish that was the issue lol

“How many people in the coffee room have you convinced so far in your shlichus? It sounds like you have done a good job convincing yourself to believe a lot lol!”

Yeah BH. How about on your progress?

Thanks 741 for your input. All one Torah. I’m excited to share I found my first non Lubavitcher Sefer that I enjoy and find inspiring from the mussar genre (I already learn many classical mesorah sefarim.)

DY:

“ I don’t believe that any other chassidus focuses its tefilod and a odas Hashem on their Rebbe in any way comparable to how some Chabad chassidim do with their (no longer alive) rebbe.”

Or maybe he’s just more alive and available to any yid even more than before because he’s not bound by time… how many “alive” Rebbes can boast of the number of The Rebbe’s shluchim post gimmel tammuz? Check out the different yidden who visit the ohel. Since when did alive mean meat?

Lost Spark (B.G. son?)

“ CS:

“Do you believe all the souls leaving this world pass through the Rebbes office?”

I’m sorry I wish I saw that kind of stuff. I don’t. They did before.

“Do you believe all the teffilah in the world goes through 770?”

Same answer

Do you believe that 770 is the mikdash?

Have you learned kuntres Beis Rabbeinu ShebiBavel?

Ard,

“ CS thinks that’s exactly what he learned! Why do you think he was up there for 40 days?

Yserbius,

Our mesorah is זריזים מקדימים”

Exactly. He learned the whole Torah then. He didn’t learn Toraso shel Moshiach but won’t be tutoring. He’s still learning. By the way he didn’t know what Rabi Akiva learned about the tagim either…