bubka

Sam2: “ There is no source anywhere whatsoever for the popular idea that L’asid Lavo we Pasken by Beis Shammai.”

The Gemora says:

?? ???? ??? ??????? ???? ???? ????? ?????? ????? ????? ?????? ??????? ?????? ?? ?

A wife is obligated to do certain tasks for her husband for the sake of endearment. These tasks include pouring his cup, making his bed and standing before him to attend to his wishes such as getting a drink. There is a dispute as to whether these tasks are obligatory or optional. The Yerushalmi Kesubos (5:6) clearly holds they are obligatory for the wife to do them. Rashi (Kesubos 61a) and others hold that they are optional – simply advice that our Sages gave to increase the husbands liking of his wife. Shulchan Aruch rules it obligatory.

We don’t treat a man or woman differently if he/she intermarries. Either way, they should be sat shiva for.

Feif: My Rosh Yeshiva told me that Oz Vehadar should be read by every girl in high school and should be given to every Choson and Kallah.

As far as JB, he was often referred to, even by Rabbonim and Roshei Yeshiva, by “J.B.”, including Rav Schenur Kotler and even by a Rosh Yeshiva from YU (Rav Gorelick).

@crisisoftheweek: No.

J.B.’s book, that Feif referenced up above, must have that haskama.

A godol was asked by a yid when he should start training his son to become a godol. His response was that it is too late. You need to start 9 months before he was born.

Just because the moon is a rock doesnt contradict the fact that it is, in some way, sentient. As it so happens, the statement about the moon is a Zohar in a few places. He says thats what it means when it says “Yetzorom Bdaas bebinah uvehaskel” – that Hashem created the luminaries including their wisdom. Rav Chaim Kanievsky also, in Kiryas Melech, goes through the Rambam in Hilchos Deos bringing sources for just about every statement there. Rav Schneur Kotler ZTL said that he remembers that Rav Meir Simcha of Dvinsk ZTL once said that there are people who hold Rambam was wrong, and they are totally wrong, and he (Rav Meir Simchah) would really write a sefer showing that every word of the Rambams Hilchos Deos is culled from Chazal, but the Malbim already wrote such a Sefer so he doesn’t need to. Rav Schneur continued, that nobody knew what Rav Meir Simcha was referring to by the Sefer of the Malbim until a few years ago (about 35 years ago from today) they reprinted a Sefer from the Malbim showing that the Rambam’s Hilchos Deos was all from Chazal.

DY: I backed what I said by sharing with you the thoughts on this issue of Rav Shach (as related to Rav Chaim Segal), Rav Ahron Kotler and Rav Elya Svei.

Specifically which Gedolim, if any, share your sentiments?

He eloped with Sac.

Great in theory, but for the vast majority, it doesn’t work. They need other pursuits, and if there’s no secular studies program, they’ll find some less wholesome activities to engage in.

DY: That is your own speculation. Since there are few schools that eschew secular studies, there is little evidence for you to compare students who did not attend secular studies to those that did, and determine if one group engages in less wholesome activities than the other group.

Furthermore, as I pointed out, in Eretz Yisroel, almost all Chareidi Yeshivos do not have secular studies at the high school level. And you will be hardpressed to claim that the yeshiva boys in EY are spiritually worse off than the boys in the US. I would in fact say the opposite is the case.

At first thought I would agree with your point that a shoddy secular studies program is much worse than a competent secular studies program. (OTOH, perhaps a shoddy secular studies program takes less after-school hours/time from the students, thereby allowing them more time to engage in Limudei Kodesh.) So you might, indeed, have a point that it would be wrong to bad-mouth a yeshivas secular studies program.

The Rema in Toras HaOlah (1:2) states clearly that we assume rabbinic science to be infallible, and ancient rabbinic knowledge of astronomy complete.

Medrash Tehillim (19) quotes Shmuel as saying he is an expert in the streets of Nehardea as much as he is an expert in the ‘streets’ of the heavens. The Medrash asks how Shmuel knew all of that, and it answers he knew it all through the Torah.

Rabbeinu Bachyai writes in the Introduction to Chumash that all wisdom and science in existence is contained in Torah.

The Chosid Yaavatz (Ohr Hachaim) says that Chazal knew science form a Mesroah that goes back all the way to the Neviim, who knew it from Hashem, without any effort at all.

Chasam Sofer (Beshalach) writes that this is the meaning of the posuk “Ki hi chachmascha ubinascha l’einei ha’amim” – Chazal were great experts in the secular sciences and disciplines. In fact, you need to know much secular knowledge in many areas in order to properly understand the Torah – and he gives several simple examples. However, since we are supposed to be busy learning Torah – not secular science – all day and night, and Hashem has no “nachas ruach” from us learning secular studies at all, how would Chazal have known all the secular wisdom that they clearly knew, as we see they did from all of Shas?

Answer: They know it from the Torah, since the entire body of secular wisdom is included in the Torah, for the Torah is the blueprint of the world. And so, when the Goyim see that we do not study the secular science books at all – and we even disagree with them! – yet we derive all the secular knowledge, in the most precisely accurate form – from only the Sefer Torah, they will exclaim, “Am chacham v’navon hagoy hagadol hazeh!” (A similar explanation is given by the Raavad-ibn Daud. He says that the posuk refers to the philosophical truths that it took the nations centuries to develop, we knew all the time via tradition from Har Sinai.)

Once we establish that the scientific knowledge that is incorporated into Torah Shebal Peh is derived form the Torah, it has the same status as all of Chazal’s interpretaitons of the Torah — they are binding.

The Radvaz (4:232) writes that “Aggadah is part of the Torah shebal peh and is rooted in what Moshe received on Har Sinai directly from Hashem, just like the rest of Torah shebal peh”.

Chasam Sofer — Please see the Chasam Sofer in Beshalach I quoted above. He says the same thing in Drashos Chasam Sofer Vol. 1 p.100b. Our prophets and sages know all the sciences much better than the scientists even though all they learn is Torah. This is because the One Who created nature informs our sages of the correct facts. This is what amazes the Nations, as it says, Am navon v’chacham hagoy hagodol hazeh!

That may have been true initially, but after seeing the products of both types of mesivtas, they would have a secular program even if there were no government regulations or parental influence…

This is all your own speculation and feelings. Today, there are a small number of High Schools in America – particularly in Lakewood – that do not teach English. Also, many Yeshivos do try to reduce the amount of secular studies as much as possible, through knocking out the last semester of English, and a number of kids are leaving HS early to enter Bais Medrash.

Rav Chaim Segal ZT’L, the Menahel of the High School at Yeshiva Chaim Berlin was once told by Rav Shach ZT’L that if possible, he should not be teaching English studies. In Eretz Yisroel, almost all Chareidi Yeshivos do not have English at that age. Rav Aharon Kotler ZT’L made some kind of commitment not to allow English studies on the HS level in Lakewood. The exact details, and if this was actually a Takanah or merely a preference, is not clear and depends who you ask. In any case, Rabbi Elya Svei, Rosh Yeshiva of Philadelphia and a student of Rav Aharon’s, was asked why he allows English in Philly if Rav Aharon was against it. What difference can there be between the town of Lakewood NJ and Philadelphia PA? Reb Elya answered that he has no choice, and that currently, the Baalei Batim would not send their kids to the Yeshiva except under these circumstances.

Is any of this the ideal? No. It is not. Is it justified? The schools say it is, as they have no choice. But the point is not what the Jews do, its what Judaism wants. Everyone agrees that it would be a higher level, a preferable situation if we would indeed not learn English even at the HS level, at least not beyond what is necessary to survive. Nobody claims it is an ideal.

It absolutely is either loshon hora, or, more likely, motzi shem ra.

Most Litvishe gedolim in America recognized the need for a secular studies program for mesivta aged boys, and even those who are against it would agree that if there is one, it must be a serious program.

The Litvishe gedolim only recognize the “need” for the secular studies as a b’dieved because the government requires it and if they didn’t offer it many parents would not send their children to a good yeshiva (with no secular studies). L’chatchcila they would agree that it would be better to have no secular studies and have longer Limudei Torah.

But there is nothing intrinsically good about a secular program, even according to the gedolim who allow it and have it for the above reasons. So, no, there is no loshon hora or msr whatsoever in being dismissive of it.

I love you brother, but your answer was kind of funny. (I hope you don’t go thermo-nuclear on me now…) If I was wrong about the speculation of your health-industry status, you wouldn’t be unable to “recall”, since you would’ve immediately known you obviously never made such an incorrect comment. That you only don’t recall making it, indicates your status is in fact what I inquired.

Though I do recall seeing an old post of yours saying you are in school.

Using that train of thought, schools are a soup kitchen, gym and sports arena too.

These type of things generally happen only in certain shuls. And I wouldn’t daven in those shuls in general, as these meshuganas are tolerated — and often even worse. It says something about a person who would daven in such a shul, even if he doesn’t actively participate in such a travesty.

It is you with the “different” definition of slob.

Following the Torah is in no way, shape or form being “lazy”.

Period.

I’ve wondered why the Kollel Store (KRM) has lower prices than Moishe’s, considering it is the same ownership.

Real men have beards. Shaving any time of the year is slobby. Refraining from shaving — any time of the year — is acting like a real mentch.

OOM: Please don’t take it so hard that Sam said that being Kavua Seder in Shakespeare is bad. Perhaps he was referring to men (Bitul Torah, etc.) and your status as a woman may exempt you to continue your sedorim in these holy works.

Or was it Sam’s uncertainty if these works of secular literature, Shakespare et al, should or shouldn’t be taught in Jewish high schools that disappointed you?