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A little while ago Eli Y asked two questions. I was waiting for one of the more learned members of this thread to answer but I don’t think that they were addressed. They were good questions that deserve an explanation. My reply reflects my Bais Yaakov background, there are probably other responses as well.
As a follow-up: What benefit accrues to the deceased by gaining more merit?
Also, do folks in your shul say Kaddish for precisely 11 months?The benefit to the deceased is this: The honor of Hashem is increased with every kaddish, as explained. Because the deceased is the catalyst for this increased cognizance and appreciation of Hashem in the physical world of action, (where they can no longer achieve any accomplishments on their own,) he/she, in the world of truth, will delight in this added bit of awareness that resulted from their life. I used the term “bit of awareness”, but in the World of Truth it’s not considered small at all. If, the deceased is still in the throes of punishment up there (generally understood mainly as excruciating mortification), because the kaddish has now added additional meaning to the life that he/she lived, this will elevate the soul and thus alleviate some of the pain. The same goes for Yizkor and anything else good that someone does leiloi nishmas someone who has passed away.
There is also the concept that every Jewish soul on this earth, by virtue of being a “son” of Hashem (“Bni bechori Yisroel”), increases the honor of Hashem in this world. So, a loss of a Jewish soul, is also a loss to the honor of G-d. The recital of kaddish helps to restore the equilibrium down here as well.To my knowledge, kaddish is recited for 11 months following the loss of a parent in all congregations.
The “betten the Rebbe” has been explained as not davening to the Rebbe.
Was it?
Some seem to have misunderstood my post as explaining that concept for Chabbad. However, since I am as Litvish (misnadish, if you want) as they come, I cannot say that on Chabad’s behalf.
I would like to believe that that is their viewpoint, but too often when they say that betten is not davening, it is implying that davening is only formal Tefila. No one dreams that Lubavichers have anyone besides Hashem in mind when they daven the Amida, say shema or make brachos. The definition of Betten is requesting. The issue that I haven’t seen cleared up is the kind of dialogue that we have with the RBS”O throughout the day, “Hashem, please help me with whatever issue I’m dealing with’, or ‘Hashem, give me clarity please’, etc.” Those kinds of informal tefilos may also not be addressed to anyone other than the RBS”O, at least for those who consider themselves part of Torah Judaism as codified by the Rambam.
If this too, is discouraged/ forbidden by Chabad ideology, and requests are addressed and directed straight to Hashem in the zchus of their Rebbe, I will be very happy and relieved to hear that. Not my derech (the original one) as a Litvack, but a legitimate one.
As to what the all the sources about what a tsaddik is/ is not, I leave that to the Talmidei Chachomim, the lomdei Torah of both sides to explain what they all mean without contradicting one (or three) of the 13 Ikrim. It seems to me that PP, SHY and others have made some progress on that. If it is emes there will be no contradiction, if there is a contradiction then the understanding of it is not emes
And CS, I feel sorry that you have not had the zechus of meeting true tzadikim in your life time as I have. We have lost many r”l, but there are tzadikim even to this day. Lo almon Yisrael. Search them out. You’ll be glad that you did.“Please Explain Why Davening To/Betten a Rebbe is Okay ”
Why are there frum Lubavitchers who are having such a problem with clearly saying, “No, davening to the Rebbe is not OK. The Rambam says that it is one of the crucial beliefs of being a Jew, so it isn’t OK”.
Betten means to ask the Rebbe to intercede on your behalf in the zchus of his mitzvoth and maasim tovim.
And this discussion is finished. Why all the hyperbole and double talk?I will not go back to the inyan of the mon that I posted before. Anyone who sees the whole inyon can easily see for themselves the problem with the position of the Chabad shlucha, that Moshe R’ thought it was fine to ask things from him.
I, for one, after reading this blog, am very shaken. While some of the Chabad posters seem to have retained normative emunah, some of the posters, in attempting to explain Chabad thought, have confirmed my worst fears for Lubavitch, disclaimers and “raayos” not withstanding. It is possible to bring “raayos” to be metaher a sheretz. Without the concept of Hashem Echad with NO shutaf, as the bedrock of any other beliefs, we get into trouble. The Non-Jews are allowed the serve avodas hashituf. We are not! I am not qualified to say with any kind of certainty, but perhaps it was this very problem, of twisting deep, delicate concepts into unacceptable beliefs, that the Vilna Gaon foresaw when he was so opposed to early Chassidus.
I understand that the feeling of having “THE BEST CONNECTION” to Shomayim is a heady, exciting thought that probably energizes much of the movement, and even though I disagree that Chabad has the best connection, I fargin them just like I fargin all of the Shivtei Yisroel whose goal is Yiraas Shomayim. But putting a human being on the same plane as Moshe R’ (“bedoro” means that we must accept their words in our generation just as we accepted the words of Moshe Rabbeinu. NOT that they are the same! See Rashi) and putting a human being on the same footing C”V as the RBS”O (being able to provide for and run the world,) is simply way out of a true Torah perspective! Tzadik gozer vaHashem mekayem does not give a tzadik the same powers as HKB”H, C”V x a million!
Chabad Shlucha, and all the others, you seem to be intelligent and sincere. Please try to fix from within what is wrong with Chabad today, so that all the wonderfully right things that they do can be fully appreciated. It’s time for Chabad to rejoin the body of Klal Yisroel again. From what I remember and have learned from the Daas Torah of this generation, this is a relatively new issue, not more than 25 -30 years old. Before the derech took this dangerous turn, Lubavitch used to be a well respected Chassidus, just like other Chassidusim . I wish you (and all of us) much hatzlacha!
May we all be zocheh to greet Moshiach Tzidkeinu very soon and Tishbi Yetaretz Kushyos Ubaayos!@Chabad shlucha: “Which spells out why asking Moshe rabbeinu for things in the midbar was fine whereas doing the same with the eigel was avoda zara.”
Moshe Rabbeinu did not consider it “fine” when the Yidden in the midbar asked him for things!
Seeשמות ט”ז
ז ובקר וראיתם את־כבוד ד’ בשמעו את־תלנתיכם על־ד’ ונחנו מה כי תלינוּ עלינו:
ח ויאמר משה בתת ד’ לכם בערב בשר לאכל ולחם בבקר לשבע בשמע ד’ את־תלנתיכם אשר־אתם מלינם עליו ונחנו מה לא־עלֵינו תלנתיכם כי על־ד’:I have more derech eretz for your Rebbe ztz”l, than to think that he would compare himself to the RBS”O or even to Moshe Rabbeinu, c”v. Please go back to your teachers and ask them to start with the very basics before jumping to Toras haNistar. That trajectory has messed up many people in much greater generations than ours.
To be fair, I have to write that the incident in the Chabad day school took place at least 15 years ago. Perhaps things like that have been corrected by now in all Chabad schools. I certainly hope so. But it is true stories like that one which made me fear for the future of Chabad chassidim.
A young Bais Yaakov graduate whom I taught, got a job as an assistant in an out of town Chabad day school. She was very confused when the teacher and the class turned to the picture of the Rebbe and addressed a tefilla to him. She strongly felt the dilemma, since she said daily in the
. י”ג עקרים – אני מאמין …שהבורא יתברך שמו, לו לבדו ראוי להתפלל, ואין לזולתו ראוי להתפלל.
She asked the teacher and was mocked, so she asked a shailo of a Rov who is one of the gedolei haposkim of our generation. He is litvish but has vast knowledge in chassidus and nistar as well. He told her that she must quit.
I know that Chabad learns Rambam, so I don’t really understand what they do with this. It is quite clear and unambiguous.
People who daven at kevorim, myself included, daven there to the RBS”O in the zechus of the tzaddik. Or there are some who ask the tzaddik to come to the RBS”O on their behalf, although there are poskim who consider that questionable too. But to my knowledge, turning to a picture and addressing a tefilla to it (or what/who it represents), is unprecedented in the frum world and is kefira mamash, or much too close to it for comfort regardless of any explanation from any source what-so-ever. These young children are certainly not grasping any nuance of kavano that might possibly differentiate this from one of the severest aveiros.
I found this very frightening!To “less chumras” I’m not sure where your info is from, but I was required, along with all teachers in the BYHS where I teach, to have a police report with fingerprinting done. I believe that the directive came from Torah Umesorah. when the school scheduled an inspection.
Stop the blaming! It is pointless. For every “reason” s/o comes up with for why children go OTD, there are at least as many exceptions both ways. What is important is that the parents (and the school, if the child is still school-aged) get direction from people who are knowledgeable and have had success with these issues. Each situation is unique and requires a tailor-made approach.
“Hock” on the internet is not helpful.