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Hi modche1 Excellent post!
Please dont feel that complaints about the NASI method are complaints about Shadchanim as a rule. You do a wonderful thing and I can only imagine the art of what you do is very demanding, but you know it is also very meaningful.
Hi Jothar: Since you mentioned my name, I will just throw in that to me, I thought the threads and people in them were the ones being stoned, and that there must be another way, covertly, to handle your very real and valid concerns.
I dont think you should necessarily conclude that those who felt the thoughts of any given thread which were being interrupted by your warnings to mean that your privacy concerns are being opposed. Of course everyone wants privacy, especially the stalkers.
You are very right in your concerns and you probably know more than us about how vulnerable we really are.
My point of view stemmed from a few things: I have a good friend I went to high school with who quickly became a captain in a local police department. Now he heads up Homeland Security in NJ. Additionally, my brother has a friend who quickly became a detective in another local police department. In addition to that, where I train, and previous gyms I belonged to, many there /are were law enforcement and military police.
People would always ask them advice about concerns they had. Well, between witnessing those situations and the acquaintances I have in law enforcement, I noticed they all shared something in common.
They shared a very intelligent, analytical, and well-informed posture in thinking about the problem. They did not approach things from an emotional base at all. You are also very intellligent and analytical and well-informed, and even passionate about these things. But because they were highly trained they did not create waves for civilians going about their daily business.
I feel bad that you feel bad. And I apologize. In hindsight, maybe I could have had a softer touch. But, I would feel very confident in knowing you worked for this website behind the scenes/screen at working to keep this site safe.
I thought you meant you were looser, like with your money or something, and I was going to suggest you tighten up if you feel the need (or send some my way). So you are saying you are a loser, as in the opposite of winner?
That is not the case and I will prove to you why.
As you know, Hashem created Adam from dust. That was not enough. Then He breathed into him the breath of life. A smart part of that moment means that something came from within Hashem and went into ‘man’, and gave man life.
Logically, this means that as you speak, within you, there is something that is a part of the Creator.
Look around! The One Above was not only able to handle that fiery sun and the the planets in the immense universe, He created them.
The One Above was also able to allow you to look at these shapes (letters) in any array of any agreed upon combination, have them pass from the outside world through your eyes and into your mind, as if that was not enough, and gave you the ability to understand me as I sit here on the other side of your computer screen.
The macro world and the micro world are truly miraculous, and all were made at the hand of the Creator, as we all know.
Well, in short (although its too late for that), a very real piece of the Creator, a small piece of His fabric, if you will, is inside of you right now!!!
Know this fact, and start feeling and acting accordingly.
Hatzlacha!
Well, if Lakewood is, it certainly won’t be for any shortage of schools.
Thank you Ettie. Should we still daven for her or Is the baby doing better now, iy”H?
Hi BSD. lol Heroin relieves stress, too. And if drinking gasoline relieved stress and the oil companies bribed their way into marketing an ingestible product, would that make it contain a “benefit”?
Medically speaking, there are about 70 poisons that are ingested when tobacco is burned. Additionally, it is now known cigarettes contain radiation from radon that develops in the soil specifically of tobacco plants. This fact is known to the cig companies. Removing the radon would require a chemical which removes the nicotine. So they have decided against removing the radon.
In light of that information, I vote there are no benefits. Yours sounds like the rationalization of one addicted. lol. Well, I hope you quit soon, seriously. And if I could give you a vitamin, where in one swallow you would be cured of that addiction, would you take it? Even though you say cigs relieves stress?
Hi Jothar: Wrongo! There are shades of gray with addictions and ALL are not equal. The thread was asking which is worse, which requires evaluation of the differences, and not a blunt overgeneralization. And I am not even comparing cigs to internet. I am addressing the specific addition. Both are bad. And you are right about internet and marriage. Terrible! But that does not lead to countless tragic and fatal diseases. SO, when you compare the problems of internet to cigs. Hands down its cigs.
There is a way to go online and learn something new and have a positive experience. There is no way to smoke even one puff of a cig without it causing immediate damage throughout the body, of which can also be passed on, c”vs, to future generations via genes. Yep, that is right!
I googled the words, all instrumental radio new york, and there are a lot of links for online radio. I am not sure if any of them can be picked up in the car or on your radio, though. Maybe they can.
The snap sound right behind the front teeth made from the tip of the tongue. It does add to and spice up a conversation. I know Swahili has the more pronounced, heavy tongue click.
Hi cleverjewishpun. You sound like an awesome, awesome person who has a great deal of emotion and intelligence.
Towards the end of reading your link, through misty eyes, I was encouraged to read that when you were asked by someone if you want to be frum again and you said, “”I want to one day want to be frum”. And I believe that you will. And I pray that you will.
You are a victim of a circumstance that are totally understandable. I had a similar situation, and questioned all the things I was doing religiously, as they only reminded me of when I was sharing those things with someone, and now we, too, are not together. It only brought pain; at times, unbearable. Look, we are capable of deep feelings. That is how we are made. Our deep feelings should be for joy, but that is not always the case.
I dont remember the lesson it was ascribed to, but a wonderful rebbe I was learning with taught the thought, “Hashem created us so that in time, we dont feel sadness/pain with the same level of intensity.” I held on to that thought during a time like what you spoke about, and eventually it affected my emotions, thank heaven. Sometimes we have to soldier on to get to the next place in our lives. By the way, it seems like you are doing that already by the very nature of your post, here.
You want to be frum one day. You said it and I believe it came from the bottom of who you really are. Dont let that, albeit meaningful, but painful situation take up the entire space of the precious life you were given. It may seem hard at first, but it takes work to stay in pain as much as it does to put effort into rebuilding. Choose life! (and you are)
Hatzlacha, my friend! The world needs someone like you!!
Smoking. Internet can be used for bad, but it can also be used for good. There is zero good about smoking and everything bad about it.
It may not be so easy to know what to do at the time things are happening. Hindsight is 20/20.
So how is that issue working out where you had to speak to your Rav again? I pray everyone in that family you spoke about is safe and ok. I was a little distressed that IF, c”vs a million times, there may be someone being abused, they had to endure it longer as their situation was put up for a consensus in an online coffee room.
An interesting angle on this is something interesting someone said in that Anger is the dignity emotion, but it has to be controlled. Anger has it’s place and it is a symptom telling you to address something. Based on the parsha two weeks ago, Lech Lecha, I would say look at this matter as some sort of a test (and be grateful it is not on the calibre of what Avraham Avinu was tested on). Look the situation square in the eye and I am sure your intelligence will take it from there. Take the focus off the anger a little and put it more on the situation. You will get past this. Hatzlacha!
Hi ashmorris613. That is a terrible situation you are describing. I dont know what the solution is, but I do feel just as we stress tsnius for the girls to uplift klal yisrael , I feel a great deal of effort needs to be spent on the issue of derech eretz for the boys. Not part time derech eretz, but full-time, around the clock derech eretz for everyone who crosses their path.
There could be a lot of reasons. At least you didnt hear about the simcha as an event that already happened. If you are part of the immediate family, then I would be concerned. Maybe they are just having a small dinner and other valued acquaintances are invited for dessert.
I am certainly not poskinning, but any income, once it reaches a certain level, has to be part of the tax equation. I know we hold to obeying the laws of the land in regards to business/employment. Whether there are halachic consequences, I dont know. I know no one wants to pay taxes on money they earn in a somewhat informal way, but I would ask an astute rabbi as many attitudes in our community vary regarding this topic.
NASI is not concerned about fixing the problem. They are exploiting the problem for financial gain, and in essence, permanently embedding the problem by creating a new standard, which I hope others will not follow. Raising the price on a proper match for someone, by the year, is obscene.
No matter how people feel about this, the tumult alone is a sign that something is wrong with this program. Just because some really really like it and say the understand it, does mitigate the fact that many of us do not like it one tiny bit.
The boys and their families should chill out on the age thing, for the sake of the daughters. Good things will happen if they do that.
akuperma: “If the Artscroll was being honest, every word would have oodles of footnotes conveying the difficulty and alternative readings, and the translation would be unreadable.”
How would leaving out every single thought on a subject, as you suggest, be an issue of dishonesty???
The irony of all this is that the added clarifications put into Artscroll shas are written in there by experts who study with untranslated shas. You are getting in writing what you would get if you were sitting across from them, except they check the sources more carefully at their desks at Artscroll.
That being said, this argument for all of us is pointless.
On a personal note, I am so grateful to Artscroll. I would hope those who are good at learning would understand it’s value and find it not necessary to belittle it. There must be some tools you use that people holding a higher madrayga would not use. That does not mean those tools are substandard. Dont better learners benefit from a world where more people are coming back to Torah Judaism? Dont those returning benefit from those who learn in yeshiva?
I think Artscroll shas and untranslated shas is not a “versus” situation, it is a win-win situation.
bpt: “Gosh you really are new here.”
Yes, I am. But not brand new.
Hi Jothar: You think your Rov was not sure of his answer the first time you spoke to him? You have to be careful in these matters, which it seems you are doing by asking again. I hope you are not jumping the gun on something.
Do you “suspect” something is going on? Or, the fact is something is going on? If something is going on, and you know for sure, and you really know for sure, the answer is clear. Please help the victim.
You are involved at this point and I suggest you possibly go down and talk to a police officer for recommendation on how to handle this professionally. Dont mention names; dont sign anything. See how they approach it. And do it soon.
Hatzlacha!
Doswin: Exactly why I find it a disgrace that the attitudes have not changed. A wrong attitude leads to wrong actions. No? In fact, NASI may be starting a trend in the wrong direction that will further create and “shidduch crisis”.
A few leaders have spoken out, but I guess we will see what happens. Again, I am very embarrassed that our approach to building families has sunk to such a terrible level, which some may try to justify by saying that is what the boys want. When approaching such a critical area of Jewish life (marriage and family), an outlook like this kind of makes you wonder about the quality of learning and, more importantly, it’s effect on the individual.
In the long run, a boy who insists on age as the critical “character trait” is doing a favor to the older girl (and we are talking about a matter of a year) because such a view/decision right from the start, is the beginning of sharing a life with a boy/man who is exposed to the Holy Torah, and comes out the other end superficial. What’s going on?
To bring this to real terms: If you or I are offered to date someone the shadchen thinks is good for us and that girl happens to be 22, and we decline and say we are only interested in a 21 year old, then I have no respect for that at all.
And if us guys show so much lack of derech eretz for what the Shadchen suggests, to where we create a trend that results in imposing a thousand dollar charge on the girls, per year, to me, that is a huge chilul Hashem and not good for Klal Yisrael. NASI should not play into that as they may create a new, bad standard.
When you dont have a juice stain on your shirt?
Do not read…random post. 🙂
Hi shtusim. Very good! Not sure how long or recent that was, but Mazel Tov!
My only thought to the folks here on the subject is that if two people are learning from an untranslated shas, will they already know and share all the information on any given point that is contained within an Artscroll shas?
LOL PBA! Well Done!
soliek. Dont you dare! Lakewood Rocks Planet Earth!!!! lol
There is Yerushalyim, followed by Lakewood. (You got that right) : )
Hi MiddlePath…And RUSH is Jewish. lol
Hi smartcookie. Yes, I do find it helps. I get a high dose Omega 3 with Vitamin D from one of the big brand companies at koshervitamins dot com. But I am not prescribing at all.
The thing is I went to an eye doctor for it and he had vitamins there for my specific concern where the main ingredient was Omega 3 (which is good for almost everything when taken in a decent amount).
I totally recommend you see an eye doctor or retina specialist to get the story on what to do based on them examining your eyes.
Refuah Shelayma!!
I don’t know, but I guess we have to ask them when they are sleeping.
Very interesting posts. I can only say that where I am, the so-called “Modern Orthodox” shul follows everything from A-Z of the yeshiva community and the BMG. Those attending the shul include the very yeshivish, thank heaven, to “self-styled yidden”. “Policy-wise”, it is yeshivish. I am gathering there are “MO” shuls ruling and establishing things that are not coming down from the yeshiva community. That is a shame if that is the case.
DY, I hear your point, but if I am not mistaken, NASI adds about a thousand dollars for each year. In essence they are making it a commodities market when a 22 year old is charged a thousand more than a 21 year old. AND, the shadchanim are saying it takes more work??? I am sorry, but I think this is a big mistake and a disgrace.
I offer the following solution.
1. If a shadchen thinks a good match is 22 or 23, the family of the boy should not embarrass itself by saying they are only interested in a 21 year old. If that is what the family wants, then the BOYS family pays that surcharge. You do not charge our 22 year old girls an extra grand over the 21 year olds. How shallow!
I think someone at NASI had an idea to respond to the age thing being top priority, but they made a big mistake in going with it.
Actually, NASI is just reacting to a problem where age, by a matter of even a year, is the most valued trait. Its like they are telling our girls they can’t move them on the open market so they have to pay a surcharge. Again, make the boys family pay the surcharge if they place top priority on age as a compatibility variable, and we will see what a game changing idea this is.
I dont know much about it. I do know that many eye doctors and retina specialists sell specialized pharmaceutical grade vitamins for the eyes that seem to work. I saw them for many different conditions. Starting with a nutrient approach to slow any erosion is not a bad idea.
I had dry eyes to the point of it being daily, bothersome, and giving me a glassy-eyed look. The first step, which alleviated the problem, was taking an eye vitamin heavy in Omega 3’s. Now I just take regular 3’s and it is fine. Try to call an eye specialist and inquire.
Hatzlacha!!!
I would say if someone goes off the derech, they are not solely responsible. They are more a symptom rather than the problem.
Hi lieb. You know, brand, like a particular kind, used as an adjective. I am not totally, brand, spanking new. I am somewhat relatively new. I am not new and improved, or lemon scented or now with mint. Just regular new, but not a total rookie or newbie. In time, you will be where I am at now, iy”h…lol
I do have a question for you, though. You say you are new around here. What is a round here? Are there square heres? Rectangular even?
When it becomes necessary to call shomrim/police, there will be other issues that will negatively impact upon the family. It’s a bad situation. But if a Rav said it is appropriate, then it must be very serious, then you are stopping a greater problem than the subsequent fallout. In the long-run, one may help address a problem that can be dealt with objectively. But, I imagine calling the police, this would have to be a very very very serious matter.
Great post! There is a bit of a catch-22 in that some may not want to sit and learn again, and learning full time has countless benefits to a good Jewish home and the community. On the other hand, having a degree in an in-demand profession to earn good money has countless benefits to a good Jewish and the community. There should be the balance you suggest.
I think your thoughts are totally normal. There is no way to avoid them. Thank heaven we dont keep things on our mind with the same level of intensity for too long. It is also good to share your thoughts, like you are now, or with someone you trust or who is anonymous like from a phone thing or Bais Horaah.
Hi lieb. I am new, too. Not brand new, but new.
Enjoy!
LOL, 42
Hi, cleverjewishpun- Unless I misunderstood, how can a Grammy Award really be a litmus test to the value of any music? Awards have no real place. They are nice to win, but certainly do not belong in the creative arena, in my opinion.
Hi gavra-at-work.
I am not so sure whose head is in the sand, as you so delicately suggested.
In case you missed it. The problem I had said in many posts regarding shudduchim is attitude. Attitude (hashkafa) is the cause of this problem, and we should all be embarrassed. Attitude, while not a tangible thing, is still a noun, albeit abstract, and it exists in concept. Most people are expected to grasp abstract nouns.
It is not necessary for me to bring back all my points from all the various posts I made on this subject, but keep in mind, that primarily the problem with this is the attitude about two OTHER people determining if they are right for each other.
And if I had one point of rejection to that disgusting organization that stands out for me, as of late, it is the idea that a young lady of 23 has to have a value and price tag placed on her, for that very sole reason, (to the tune of about a thousand dollars) in comparison to someone 21 or 22. That, to me, is the definition is disgusting and no solution at all. It is a deli counter approach to the sanctity of family life. I suggest this organization is eroding the sanctity part of family life.
Also, 22 versus 23 has NOTHING to do with compatibility. It then becomes a situation of supply and demand; proving my point precisely. Disgusting!
It is a disgrace that our boys should be allowed to shop for a 21 year old over a 22 year old, and charge the 22 year old extra to be in the parsha.
Perhaps reread my reaction (as if there is nothing better to do..lol) and you will see a clear point of view addressing the problem.
gavra-at-work. I am very passionately against this organization, and your personal comment implied either apathy or ignorance, when you offered nothing in return.
Here is a different angle to consider:
Why do people go “on” the derech?
Hi Soliek, I cannot remember the source, but I read an article stating that most products people assume are kosher at Starbucks, in some parts of the country, they may, in fact, not be. Be careful!
Hi EzratHashem, Those are certainly some of the finer points that need to be considered. I agree
Hi gavra-at-work. You certainly do care what other people think. You commented about my view of that disgusting Shidduch organization with great zeal, admittedly offering no thoughts of your own. Based on your vehement “crititque” of my reaction, I would say you do care what others think. “Know thyself.”
When you consider how Artscroll is SO instrumental in ensuring there is clear understanding of our SACRED books, and how Artscroll has a pivotal place in bringing Judaism to the record number of
those returning in the era just before Moshiach, and also consider the wonderful, brilliant, Talmidei Chochamim that I know who work for Artscroll, I can only assume the thread was started by someone who is shy about using Artscroll shas since someone who uses a regular, non-translated shas would know the value of Artscroll.
Go ahead and use Artscroll and dont be shy about it. Hatzlacha!
We attached a lot to the idea of “going to college”, and rightfully so. Dorms and campuses are a makom sakana, for sure.
But, college “programs” may be necessary depending on the career someone wishes to obtain, and
rightfully so. If someone is checking eyesight and considering writing a prescription
for glasses, etc., you surely want them trained for many years in an accredited program
before they go into the world charging folks money for their ability to take such responsibility
in the marketplace.
Ironically, there is a strong reluctance to the idea of going to college, and even secular eduaction as
though limud chol is limud treif, yet, when people in our community have professions and are successful, they rightfully receive tremendous respect and honor.
There is a mixed message our kids get in outlook regarding secular studies and it has a negative,
harmful impact on their efforts at basic skill development when they are young, and their ability to
be well prepared for adulthood in the area of parnasa, which is a very important part of Torah.
Ask your LOR.
This is such a difficult topic. I can tell you that while there does need to be boundaries set so that each segment of frum Judaism is legitimate, I regret to say that while each and every segment contain members who are truly good tzaddikim, wonderful-wonderful people and shining examples of all that is good, each segment also has members who “don the costume” of that group, and little more.
LOL…… You are good, Z!
I hope I am not fat. I spend beaucoup bucks every month on MMA training. It’s kinda like a preventative medical plan, and I highly recommend it. : )
YW Moderator – 42. I beg to differ. Your syllogism is neither simple nor logic.
Your categorical propositions, from which your conclusion is to be inferred, do not contain the very necessary defined structure of including, “All”, “Some”, or “No”. For example, “All” Michele Obamas are….or “Some” Michele Obamas are….. or “No” Michele Obamas are……Therefore…yadda yadda yadda….would make for valid propositions that can then be argued.
They are structurally incomplete and logically leading us to a faulty, albeit, humorous conclusion.
Nonetheless, I am just the messenger. You will have to take it up with Aristotle. It’s his gig. lol
Of course something like this would phase me
The milk in the carton was turning mayonaissey
So I grabbed the milk, receipt, and headed back to the store
When it slipped, dropped, and spilled onto the new, hardwood floor
Can they dot the eyes?