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So much negativity here, where’s our emunah? There’s no “zionist entity” out to get us, it’s all Hashem.
As for the draft, for now keep davening, keep studying Torah, keep making tshuvah, keep being positive.
While my own personal belief is that defending the borders of Eretz Yisrael fulfills the mitzvah of pikuach nefesh as ruled by the Lubavitcher Rebbe based on the Shulchan Aruch, I agree that Torah study does this also.
That said, there’s an opportunity to make a kiddush Hashem through performing practical mitzvot in hospitals and other organizations, as others have detailed above.
For now, I see no reason to believe hareidim will be drafted. Not just because Hashem is in control and not just because they’ve tried before many times and failed. There’s really no reason politically either. Bibi has been in contact with Deri three times and is meeting with Yishai today. He hasn’t made any contact with Bennett nor is he expected to and he is confident a compromise can be made that is satisfactory to Gedolei Yisrael.
Trust in Hashem! He won’t abandon his precious Yidden who have nothing in this World but Torah.
For once I agree with Health. Yair Lapid ran and won his seats on a social agenda, vis, shielding the middle class from budget cuts and tax increases and seeking to lower housing prices in Tel Aviv etc by shifting the focus on settlement building.
This is one condition he has set for entering a coalition, the second is to “increase the share of the burden” and the third is to restart negotiations with the PA.
He has also said he will not be part of a right wing government, so at least one center-left party will need to be included. Shelly has already ruled herself out, so that leaves Livni and Mofaz. It’s possible Mofaz won’t have passed the threshold after all the remaining votes (IDF, double votes etc) are counted, but even if he does, his two seats aren’t enough for a stable coalition. That leaves Livni. Livni also has stated she will not be in a coalition with Bennett.
So both Lapid and Livni have ruled out Bennett which leaves…the hareidim. What to do about the draft? First focus on what issues they have in common, social issues primarily and perhaps also building issues, then come to a compromise.
Regardless I see no reason to worry. As much as many here would love to see another hareidi-free government to say “I told you so!” it’s not likely to happen. For further proof, already Moshe Gafni (!!) has stated he will sit down and talk with Yesh Atid. Moshe Gafni. Just think about that.
“The Minhag or tradition was that women didn’t go. It wasn’t the tourist attraction it is now. We didn’t need to make a Medina, against Hashem’s will, to make all the Mekomos Hakedoshim into tourist attractions!”
So women should just not daven at the wall or kivrei tzaddikim? Fantastic!
“No, it’s not! We have free will to do what we want whether it’s good or bad. This is a fundamental principLE (not s/o in charge of schools.) which is called “Bechira” in Judaism. How come you never heard of this?”
Of course I have. How come you have never heard of ain od milvado? Just because you don’t understand how free will can exist in harmony with everything coming from Hashem, doesn’t mean that it isn’t the case.
“No, I don’t believe in Zionism or the State.”
That should have no impediment on you living in Eretz Yisrael.
“It’s Ossur right now acc. to almost e/o to have a State based on Kefira. The only question amongst the Gedolim is what to do about it now that it’s here. Except for a very few e/o held you’re not allowed to make such a Medina!”
So it seems the only one stuck to the past is you. The Lubavitcher Rebbe, Rav Ovadia Yosef, all the big tzaddikim from litvish, Belzer/Gerrer Rebbeim etc all knew that there is a clear and overriding issue of pikuach nefesh that dictates how we must relate to the medinah.
You personally believe Yidden living in Eretz Yisrael would be SAFER without the medinah. That’s fine. You’ll forgive me however if I, and others, side with the opinion of Gedolei Yisrael instead.
Your nostalgic dreams of Ottoman Turkish rule are a modern day fairy tale. The facts on the ground are such:
1. The medinah exists.
2. It’s facilitating the fulfillment of the mitzvah of living in Eretz Yisrael and studying Torah in Eretz Yisrael en masse.
3. Ceeding land presents a clear danger to the lives of Yidden and is assur d’oraita.
4. Hashem runs the World. Don’t like it? Take it up with Him. I advise doing so from Eretz Yisrael, preferably the Kotel.
“They didn’t need Mechizos – they didn’t have “Women of the wall”!”
Mechitza is a Halacha LeMoshe MiSinai, how can you suggest it isn’t needed?
Regardless, were they free to put them up?
“And of course they Davened with their own Siddurim. If you’ve seen any records (which I doubt) then you’re right – it’s a Zionist lie. I spoke myself to s/o who went to the Kosel before ’48.”
According to the Turkish firman, they were not permitted to bring seforim to the Kotel. Whether that firman was actually enforced or not, I don’t know nor do I care. One does not need to have any knowledge of history to know of the antagonism of the arabs toward Yidden.
Also, you have again dodged the point. Were we free? Would we all have been allowed to fulfill the mitzvah of living in Eretz Yisrael?
“Now you sound like Avi-K. Are you him? The Zionists have free will to rebel against Hashem -so it’s Not his Rozon.”
I’m not Avi-K.
The zionists have free will, but if you are implying that the formation of and existence of the medinah along with the Yidden who move to and live in Eretz Yisrael is not His razon, then you are denying the fundamental principal that everything comes from Hashem.
In that case, there’s no point continuing this discussion as it seems your lack of emunah stems from the fact you simply don’t want to believe.
avhaben – Then it should be so in chutz l’aaretz too (it’s not).
Health – Free access? Free to put up mechitzot, read from siddurim etc? History records otherwise. I suppose you believe that’s a zionist plot though.
More Torah learning without the medinah funding millions into it? Then it should be so in chutz l’aaretz too (it’s not).
The medinah is far from perfect, but I’m not about to pretend it somehow slipped through the net of hashgacha pratis. According to the Rambam’s first principle of faith, it’s heresy to suggest that the Jewish people’s return to Eretz Yisrael is anything other than the will of Hashem. So too, I think it’s pretty shameful that you would let the medinah be your excuse not to fulfill the mitzvah to live in Eretz Yisrael and follow the pretty clear directives of tzaddikim from the Gra/Besht to today.
YosHChayal – B’ezrat Hashem this coming year I too will be studying Torah in the center of the Universe.
avhaben – presumably since you are bringing the Shalosha Shevuos into this, then you no doubt agree that this doesn’t overrule Ketubot 110b (that one should ALWAYS live in Eretz Yisrael).
Even if you’re against the medinah, despite it’s funding for Torah study and pikuach nefesh for millions of yidden, that still is no excuse for not fulfilling the mitzvah of living in Eretz Yisrael.
“So what? I also had. And nothing compares to living under Turkish rule.”
Nonsense. Free access to the Kotel and kivrei tzadikim. More funding for Torah study than any other country on Earth. There are plenty of advantages to the Medinah.
Consider this also, Eretz Yisrael is once again an Emunah factory. Hundreds of thousands of baalei tshuvah and plenty who come to yiddishkite despite their assimilated upbringing in chutz laaretz, especially your beloved USA.
I think it’s pretty much unarguable that the ammended statement, vis, the Gra held that chassidim were apikorsim is demonstrably true. The fact that many litvish today do not is only proof of the point (that it’s irrelevant whether R’ Eiger would have worn a kippa sruga).
I believe that many zionist arguments are enshrined in shas and halacha, for example, that all Yidden should be in Eretz Yisrael. As for the actual state itself, I have slight indifference toward it’s current nature, but great hope for the future.
The medinah is only the framework after all. Who set it up? Hashem, Ain Od Milvado (See: Rambam’s first principal of faith). It’s not too hard to see that even as things are it has served/facilitated a purpose; Jews being exposed to Torah and given the opportunity to come close to Hashem like nowhere else on Earth. There are literally hundreds of thousands of baalei teshuva and more by the year. It’s only a matter of time before the nature of the government and the medinah too becomes shomrei Torah umitzvos.
In the end, those who argue against the state are only really arguing against emunah.
YMB – if the medinah is trying to eradicate Torah study, why does it use tax-payers money to fund thousands of Yeshivot and provide stipends for those who study?
Regardless, your pontificating and spouting of endless anti-zionist (Brisker?) propaganda and diatribe fails to address the bottom line: The medinah exists and without it, the lives of countless Yidden are in danger. This is undeniable fact.
As the Lubavitcher Rebbe ZTz”L rightly ruled, it is pikuach nefesh to serve in the army and defend the borders of Eretz Yisrael.
avhaben: Who cares what the goyim do? Eretz Yisrael is Eretz Yisrael and pikuach nefesh demands that Yidden (and Torah study) are protected by an army.
avhaben: The dangers faced and the numbers involved mean that isn’t even remotely a valid comparison.