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@shuali mah kesher? Sounds like a beautiful story of a Lubavitcher (R’ Landau) building a mikva not according to shitas Chabad…that counters your original comment…
First of all, @mods thank you for not censoring people’s opinions (unless of course they are mine, which were 100% respectful and historically accurate). I mean that fully, it will only be to the benefit of the frum world if people have a forum on which they can express their beliefs. Kudos!
Second of all, @achdus, so you’re a troll. Mazal tov, how unique and special you must feel. It’s also nice to see that your community is finally coming around to acknowledging the great importance of kiruv (particularly among sfardim, whom many in your community are still highly prejudiced against). It doesn’t seem that long ago that your greatest gedolim were trashing the rebbe for his kiruv efforts.
But i digress. Give me one example of Chabad undermining the important work of others? I’m sure you’ll be able to dig something up, but I’m also sure you’ll be able to find 10 examples of the opposite. Oh, and yes, achdus starts and ends with you yourself. But let’s be honest you don’t care about achdus, you care about trolling. An I get that, I really do. I also know that my reaction probably encourages your trolling, but like a sheeple i’ll indulge.
But go ahead dude, hate all you want. If it gives you satisfaction that you’ll trigger a few emotional people, kol hakavod. Otherwise your posts are a gorgeous display of cognitive dissonance.
Third of all, @shauli, not only do you clearly not get the joke, but every single one of your claims can be flipped back at you. In fact, I have personal experience with one. A litvish rov told a female relative of mine that he can’t promise her children will not be bnei niddah if she uses the lubavitch mikva (in a city that only had a lubavitch mikva for about 20 years).
@mdd1 Some do, some don’t, but by your standard is it a problem that Litvish ba’alei batim don’t learn Navi or Moreh Nevuchim seriously? Who decided that the only acceptable Torah to learn is gemara? The yeshiva structure and schedule is exactly the same in Lubavitch as the Litvish world, other than there is no serious movement to sit and learn in kollel as a career in Lubavitch.
The stereotype that there is no serious learning or no real talmidei chachamim in lubavitch is just that, a stereotype. Plenty of R”Y and R”M are serious talmidei chachamim (I believe R’ Yoel Kahn was mentioned in this thread, but there are many many others). Many of the bochurim sit and learn torah (mostly gemara, just like you) day and well into the night.
Either way, you might not consider chassidus to be torah, but they do. Much like mussar, it makes them serve Hashem more fervently, and helps them refile their personality, so I’m not sure what the big deal is.
@mdd1 first of all: yes, you would be fulfilling your obligation of Limud Torah by learning Tanya and Chumash (even if nothing else). They are as much Torah as any other Torah. Second, it’s a common misconception in the Litvish world that chassidim (not just Lubavitch, but nowadays it’s specifically charged against Lubavitch) don’t learn gemara.
Yes, Lubavitcher yeshivos have a seder for Chassidus from 7:30 am to 9:00 am and from 8:00 pm to 9:30 pm. The rest of the day is spent gemara b’iyun, gemara b’bakiyus (which they call gemara b’girsa), and halacha. They use the same kovetz meforshim you use, and learn all of the same rishonim and achronim you learn. Believe it or not, they even have roshei yeshiva that are big time talmidei chachamim.
The Yeshiva world has full right to be proud of their tremendous dedication to limud gemara, but the insinuation that Lubavitch doesn’t learn anything but Tanya is transcends pride, and sounds a lot like gayva.
Lastly, again you didn’t explain about the hisnagdus to Lubavitch, you just continued with baseless name-calling. Telling Lubavitchers that gedolim isolated them because they are like christians is not nearly as poignant an argument as you think it is.
@mdd1 You’re only strengthening my original point, not weakening it. OP suggested that Lubavitch was a “close-minded, self-centered cult” that “Nothing else exists to them besides Chabad.” I responded that *if* his accusations are true (although I’d argue that the Yeshivish world is a lot more self-centered and, in many ways, a lot more cultish than Chabad) then it was only because of the antagonism of the Yeshivish velt against Chabad.
Your response only confirms my original point. You say Chabad introduced fundamental changes that are dangerously close to Christianity. Aside from the fact that your “proof” is two random stories about random people that you have absolutely zero source for, and certainly have zero source within Chabad chassidus for, fundamentally, Chabad is basically identical to the Yeshiva world. Limud H’atorah, Shabbos, Kashrus, Tefillah, Tznius etc. (you know, the actual fundamentals of Yiddishkeit) are all exactly the same.
Additionally, the two stories you shared are completely irrelevant to the topic at hand. I reasoned that from *its inception* Chabad has been isolated by the Yeshivish world, and your defense of that is to share a story that occurred recently? Even if your stories are true (big if), and even if they represent Chabad as a whole (bigger if), and even if they are actually so foreign from traditional chassidus as you claim (biggest if), it speaks nothing of the hatred shown towards the earliest Lubavitchers.
Either way, if you enjoy living with your head in the sand about your own community, to the point where you’re doing extreme backflips to defend what anyone outside of your community would call indefensible then you gotta ask yourself who you calling a cult?
First of all buddy, you live in a neighborhood that, unlike Chabad, absolutely dissociates with any outside influence, so who you calling a cult? To the point where your community literally has an ongoing crisis because if parents are not 100% in-line with the “standards” their children have nowhere to go to school. So, from a place where non 100% compliance is considered apostasy, it’s pretty hard to take your cult accusations very seriously.
Second of all, if, and I say if, because you haven’t established any proof, Chabad is isolated from the Yeshivish world, I wonder who’s to blame? Hmmm, perhaps the group that from the inception has called the other heretics (and, *gasp* a cult) despite the lifestyles, adherence to Halacha, limmud ha’torah, and avodas hashem being 99% similar is to blame. Maybe the group that’s most noted leaders have put the other’s in cheirim is to blame. Perhaps the group who’s leader withheld visas and funds intended for the other’s bochurim, virtually sentencing them to death, is to blame. So yes, Chabad is isolated from the yeshivish world (despite the relationship only getting stronger imho), but that is by design of early yeshivish leaders.
Third of all, as others have mentioned, but it bears repeating: COL is a) a garbage site, b) a *Chabad* garbage site, and c) pretty much only read by Lubavitchers, and about Lubavitch. When Yated publishes a profile of a kollel or kiruv rabbi in a city, and doesn’t mention the shluchim that have been there for years longer (and occasionally, depending on the author, insinuating that this is the only frum org in town) does Chabad have a right to get offended? No, Yated is a yeshivish publication for yeshivish people.